[Battle of Fort Baai]

As it came to my notion is that it seems the Danes have an Alliance with Pirates? After the great battle of Fort Baai a group on the eastern side of City of Gustavius, a fleet with Danes and pirates(KGB/RUS) where attacking smaller players. So i gained some courage in my Mercury and sailed in with others to attack them. What a nice battle, too bad the pirates kept on running which lead to their destruction(we outnumbered them 3:1 in random 6th to 5th(4th?) grade ships). I had the luck to tag 3 of them so they couldn't leave.

 

Obviously we are not allied to Pirates. This picture is taken not far from Fort Baai. Notice what Kaupmann Styrbord says in Nation chat as well.

 

And Kaupmann Styrbord is:

 

 

From the look of this. You engaged the Danes screening Fleet and not its defence fleet.

Likely the Danes had 25 SOL ships sitting in the port incase you landed the flag. So the screen fleet did what it was meant to do by preventing you.

Excatly. A screening fleet is a way to intercept the flag without having to risk a port battle. The Screening Fleet is often considered to be "calculated casualties".

In this case the DANVE clan did a remarkable job, stayed on target and managed to eliminate the primary objective!!

 

KUDOS to the guys in DANVE

[RNoN, accused of high treason.]

i feel that this is a good depiction of what have happened. and you all know what happens to jofferey.

ROLLO turned out to be a traitor that killed alot of his fellow countrymen was he not?

Funny that you guys compare yourself with him

[[PVP 1] Danes got lit up at Tiburon today]

I am so bored about this.

Just had a look on our tool. 13 british timers are set between 0 - 6

Wanna know how many timers are set between 0 - 6 from other nations? 83... Yeah. We. British. Ruin. The. Game. Can you please stop blaming us about something overs are doing also all the time? Thanks.

 

How many of those were from Denmark-Norway?

[[PVP 1] Danes got lit up at Tiburon today]

Don't ever say I did not bring all I could!

[RNoN, accused of high treason.]

Just to fill in something that everyone seems to be missing out on.

Instead of focusing on the person/character Herminator, keep in mind that he is not the leader of a Denmark-Norway nation, nor the clan RDNN.
The leader of RDNN is Helgur. I do however as a representative of RDNN have a seat in our council consisting of most major clans. A seat was also offered to RNoN, but they refused since we did not want to support their attacks on Sweden.

My role in this council is spokesperson/foreign minister. Not in any case am I a souvereign leader, and I have never even said I were. There seems to be some that are not aware of this.
So by me starting this thread, it was as the spokesperson of this council and agreed upon by all present, not necessarily me as a player........

[RNoN, accused of high treason.]

To who it may concern,

 

I am writing this response as a player not as the ingame character Hugo van Grojt, just to be clear. I am copying this response from the other "open letter to the devs" thread, because it applies to this thread here just the same. Replace DRUNK with RNON as you see fit - they are the same for the sake of the argument:

 

The main argument presented by DRUNK and their supporters is essentially the following: 

"Any player should be allowed to play the game as they see fit. Nobody should be allowed to dictate how these players play the game."

 

So, before we go into my argument, let's define and establish some core elements.

 

Let's look at the various primary ways, a player may want to play the game:

1. you want to play as a trader/crafter

2. you want to play PVE (mission running and such)

3. you want to engage in small scale open world PvP (raiding, ganking, et cetera)

4. you want to engage in port battles and SOL fighting

5. you want to participate in the RvR aspect of the game (national wars)

 

Additionally, let us briefly look at what the role of a clan is within the current game mechanics. By joining an ingame clan you, as a player:

1. get a clan tag in front of your name

2. get access to a clan chat and clan mail

That is it, as far as the game is concerned. Nothing more.

 

But what does joining a clan mean for most players? (my personal assumption!) By joining a clan,

1. you join a group of players that most likely share your interests and goals in the game

2. you give authority to the leaders/officials that the clan members elect to lead. 

3. you accept that these clan leaders speak on your behalf during RvR negotiations or national council meetings - for lack of a better system.

 

Okay, now we have established a baseline and the core assumptions. Now, let us explore the original argument using the ingame faction Sweden and Denmark as example:

 

- The majority of players for each nation (organised in the biggest clans, that share a common vision) have agreed not to attack the ports of the opposing faction.

- Some smaller clans disagree with that majority decision and attack ports of the opposing faction using the argument "We just want to play the game as we see fit!"

 

How does the peace decision by the majority of players of each nation prohibit you from playing the game as you want?

1. you want to play as a trader/crafter - you can still do so within the confines of the ports your nation owns

2. you want to play PVE (mission running and such) - you can still do so within the confines of the territory your nation owns

3. you want to engage in small scale open world PvP (raiding, ganking, et cetera) - you can still do so, seeking out enemies that your nation is actually at war with - plenty of opportunities to be had there

4. you want to engage in port battles and SOL fighting - you can still do so, your clan or group of players is free to organise and independent attack on a port of the nation that your nation is at war with. For example, nobody will likely stop DRUNK from attacking a British port.

5. you want to participate in the RvR aspect of the game (national wars) - this is the ONLY part of the game where you are limited. If you absolutely want to wage war against the Danish/Swedish, you actually need to convince the majority of players playing the RvR game that this is the right way to go by increasing your clan member numbers or gaining support from other clans.

 

So, by using some logic, we have established that majority decisions concerning national wars DO NOT prevent players from playing the game as they want. Even if the majority of citizens of a nation agree on having peace between Denmark and Sweden, the players of DRUNK and other small clans still have PLENTY of opportunities to trade, PVE, small scale PvP, do port battles to their hearts' content . The only limit that DRUNK have, is that they should not attack ports that belong to the Danish nation. That is the only limitation of their gameplay experience.

 

My personal opinion in this case is that the interest of the many outweigh the interest of the few in this regard. National wars are a huge community effort that the majority of the citizens of each nation participate in. The enjoyment of the RvR aspect of the game by the MANY should not be nullified by the FEW using the liberty argument.

Or to use a real life example: If you absolutely feel that you can only be free if you run around outside naked, you can do so by moving to the countryside and run around in the forest all you like. But if you do that it in a city you should expect to be arrested because the majority of the city dwellers do not want to have to look at your naked ass. If you defend the right to run around naked in a city because of "freedom" or "liberty" - you are just a troll.

 

TL:DR

Given the assumptions above, it is my strong belief that DRUNK and their supporters do not defend the right to play the game as they want, but rather the right to troll the majority of their nation's playerbase in the RvR aspect of the game. Therefore, a backlash by that majority of players is understandable and I am personally in full support of the majority here, because that is how communities work.

 

What he said....

[RNoN, accused of high treason.]

Pirates? They are nothing special...they are just acting like any other nation, forcing small clans or solo players to play like the "council" wants to.

Good! Atleast they are enabled to enforce it!

Good some nations actually can enforce diplomacy.

[RNoN, accused of high treason.]

Noone is telling anyone else to obey.

 

When RNoN moved here, we offered them a seat at the table. They refused with the motion that they wanted to their own stuff.

Clans are optional yes, but when all clans that were here, and had been here for a long time, agreed on the diplomatic stance, we fell we get screwed by a small random clan consisting of 40members. Now we feel they are ruining the game for us. Is that not fair? Now they expect us to show them respect when they have given none, nor have they in our eyes deserved it.

One of the things now beeing discussed is if we shall join Pirates instead and make a war against Denmark-Norway. Since that is the only way we actually can retaliate on them.

[RNoN, accused of high treason.]

Hugo, your previous post is the most sensible and reasonable post I've ever seen in this entire community.

Hats of for you sir, and I'll even wash your feet.

[Open letter to Game Labs regarding RNoN and DRUNK.]

Howcome he was battling then..??

Tnx for providing proof that I was there.... Even bringing my biggest ship and my entire fleet;)

And still, RNoN says that I won't help them

[RNoN, accused of high treason.]

we tried to talk to you personally i tried response i got was this "You are a bunch of idiots" this was a quote from herminator's own lips.

If you want to quote me atleast tell the truth. you came to me claiming the Swedes had attacked you outside Aves while you were sailing 13 traderships from Fort Baai to do business with the Dutch. And because of that you would attack them and start a war. You went to different clans seeking support but everyone turned you down.

I then said and I quote myself: "if you want to behave like idiots, I won't spend my time on you".

I am not sure wheter I ment you were idiots for sailing 13 traders thru hostile waters without escort, or if it was for you wanting to start a war everyone was against. Maybe both I guess.

And I then rest my case with the "Idiot" remark.

[RNoN, accused of high treason.]

This is part of the reason why I have recently come to the conclusion that when a diplomacy system is introduced (and this is urgently needed), alliances/wars should be dictated by the devs rather than the players.

As, at first glance, this may not seem an appealing idea to many, I do plan to explain my thoughts in more detail in the suggestion forum when I have the time.

 

 

Actually not a bad idea.. The rest I don't agree with

[Diplomatic tools.]

Short version of my idea of diplomatic tools.

 

 

Clans should have a rating system based on the rank of it's members. This rating system was then a leverage for a voting system for the nation to change diplomacy standing to other nations.

 

For a nation to declare war on another nation you would need a certain amount of votes. And every clan can have a vote, and the value of that vote depends of the clans rating system.

In this way it would be benefitial for players to be affiliated in clans. Clans would benefit from being large in their national diplomacy. And also a large clan inspires more action and is easier to organize port battles and such in.

 

If the nation is not at war with another nation, then you can not buy flags either towards that nation.

With such a system you could also probably increase the port attack timers a little bit.

Just my 2 cents

[RNoN, accused of high treason.]

I totally agree, but until that mechanic comes, no one should be dictating anything to other players. They can ask players to toe he line sure, or make it a pre condition of joining their guild that they follow the guilds orders or leave. But demanding that the 'opposition party' players as I think of them should be made pirate for disagreeing with the rest is complete.................

As I said in the counterpart thread to this one, whose to say that it's not the minority that are the 'kings men' and the majority are the 'bad guys'

 

as I said in the other thread as well..... Common sense goes a long way

[DRUNK - Accused of Treason]

Yeah, but who says they're rogue? At the moment there is no way of the game knowing that it is that group who are the 'bad guys' as far as they're concerned the majority could be the rebels.

Sound mental I know. But it's simply people wanting to do something different from the main group.

 

Common sense goes a long way.

[RNoN, accused of high treason.]

I still feel it is wrong by moderator to move this thread to National News.


If this clan wants to do it's own things. Disrespect all treaties that all major clans had agreed upon, then what is the point of having nations at all? Then we should just all go pirate and all go PVP. Ports should then be held by clans not nations. We need a tribunal to sentence this to be honest. This has nothing to do with national news. As long as we don't have diplomacy tools, this is the only way to keep nations tight and together.

A clan consisting of 40players, less than 10 flagcaptains is actually dictating now the entire nation. Is that fair? This is an act of treason, and we consider them less than pirates. Even pirates have the dignity to actually admit they are pirates.
Most of the people of this clan only does this to provoke and to feed of the missery of others it seems. So let us hope that justice is served in this case and that this post gets moved back to tribunal.

[RNoN, accused of high treason.]

On behalf of most major clans of Denmark-Norway, I have been asked to start a tribunal against the clan RNoN.

We accuse RNoN for high treason against his majesty the King and suggest his clan and it's members be outcasts of the Danish-Norwegian nation and be forced to Pirate nation.
Since they arrived in the West Indies, they have stated that they wanted to do their own thing and not respect the treaties that has been agreed upon by all major clans in his majesty the kings service.

Since they came, they where informed about our current dipomatic standings and offered a seat at the table.

They have refused to follow the rest of the nation, and have even broken the peace treaty signed by all the major clans, in their own interest and not in the nations nor the Kings best interest.
This clan and it's leader seems to feed of making the nation crumble. Today they attacked 2 ports belonging to Sweden and by that braking the treaty. We consider this as high treason and they should be dealt with as traitors.

We hope the Tribunal takes this into consideration and sentence the clan and it's members to the Pirate faction, and strip them off whatever dignity they had left.

 

On behalf of the RDNN - Royal Danish Norwegian Navy

Herminator

[The "British" Lost Another Port? King Fallen?]

How often must I say this!!

I am not a Dane! I am not a Russian!!!!  I AM NORWEGIAN!! FFS!

[Respect for Brussels]

All are entitled to their own opinions Shrouded, and I agree in most you said. But we will however honour the truce.

[Respect for Brussels]

RDNN, Royal Danish Norwegian Navy agrees and no flags will be pulled from our part the next 24hrs.

[Abuse of flag mechanics to block assault on port - Pirate Edition]

I guess I can't speak as a tester because I play British (per Herminator) - kind of a double standard IMO.

 

But you bring up so many interesting worms in this can - the giant worm is you accusing Brits of abuse of game mechanics because we set port timers that make you sad.

 

Do you honestly think it is abuse to set the timer on our port as we see fit?

 

No I se it perfectly well for you to place them as you see fit. But at the same time hiding behind the notion that it is in your Australian prime time and claiming they will defend it. It's just a pile of rubbis. Not once have I seen your Aussies come to defend any of those ports. You claim it is to be defended, but you still never do. Let's atleast be honest about it!

But this is off topic. Anyways. And I am even sorry for bringing it up.

It was just mentioned to give a background on why the Higuey/Macao trade off were discussed and mentioned.

[Abuse of flag mechanics to block assault on port - Pirate Edition]

I see so many brits in here with totally other motives than justice. And that just ruins the game. Atleast let us keep the Tribunal roleplay free.

For me some of the posts made here are totally without any common sense what so ever.

 

 

Let us just do some mindblowing, and think alittle about what this game is about and what the pirate nation is about.

The British got BigValco to attack our ports. He attacked one, and succeded. Then Insomnion and Zombie Pirate bougth to flags on Macao and Higuey.

I had an agreement a long time ago with Pirates that they could have ports on East Haiti(both Macao and Higuey were discussed) to fight the brits when they were in Bani, Santo Domingo and El Soco and putting up stupid timers to prevent us from attacking them(Abuse of game mechanics). Pirates actually have a player base that would fight the brits on those silly timers(brits almost never defended late night timers). However I did not consider that arrangement to valid any more. This was a long time ago. Part of what happened yesterday was asking them to move in there to help us against Brits, put it was a poorly organized attempt and no diplomacy was made with Russians about it either, so I wanted to drop it to not offend anyone. However luckily the pirates did not attack, and I got that confirmation and also told that to my nation in chat yesterday. I told people in Denmark chat to not defend Higuey nor Macao if they were planted. It was "friendly" pirates. However I did tell people to attack BigValco and FTS if they saw them. So when BigValco bought the second flag for Aquadilla, we mustered a defence there and he got defeated. Am I not allowed to "pay off" the pirates to do my "bidding", while Brits can do whatever they want? And when something don't go according to their plans they jump into tribunals in numbers demanding accounts to be reset? If that is not roleplaying in their own personal interest then I don't know what is. Atleast I had hoped tribunal could be fair and we put nations aside.
 

And see what happened last night as well. British claim they put defensive timers against EU zone players for their Australians to defend, and they actually do not defend. Both Tiburon and Las Cayes had timers set to 04-06 and both were undefended. I have adressed this issue to them several times, and they always say, they put those timers so that Australians can defend in their primetime, but they never do. Is this not a part of "abuse"?

Is timers set to prevent PVP or to promote PVP?

 

[Abuse of flag mechanics to block assault on port - Pirate Edition]

This game has turned more to war of the pen then a war of the gun.

Everyone agrees that there is some broken game mechanics in here, but instead of dealing with that matter in a respectable and just way, they use the tribunal for their own personal gain.

If that is not an exploit then I don't know what is.

 

And that is why I have totally left all politics and became clanless.

 

The use of forums to pursue manhunts instead of fighting them on the open world is destroying the game.

[Political Situation (PvP 1 EU)]

 And honestly there's nothing wrong with a clan doing its own offensives, it's not like we'd refuse to defend our own ports. The treaty even allows open world PvP so why not attack the Danes?

 

Finally! We totally agree to this!! But I hope that also includes no Port Battles

But I like the fights we get. However, we are not often in your area any more since we get all the PVP we could ever dream of from the Brits, and they don't run as often as you guys

[PVP1 - The Empire Strikes back!]

The admin made it clear yesterday that attacking ships in the protection zone of a capital is not allowed. There will also be a hotfix that will make it so no ships can attack in the capital zone soon too. 

 

buuuuhuuuuuuu, poor Brits!