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14 hours ago, madham82 said:

No you are correct and has been brought up before. The difference is no greater than fore and aft guns. This goes back to the main advantage HMS Dreadnaught offered, unified main armament.  

Yeah I just thought yknow displacement along the ships axis can be corrected with some trig, for side armaments less so?

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Hey random but really important point: 

Make side guns and centreline guns use the same fire control system. It makes 0 sense for side turrets not to be locked on, while all the other turrets are.

Edit:

just realised I'm braindead:

side guns are not on the same axis as the centreline guns, so using data from the main fire control system would lead to inaccurate fire.

[how is this beatable?!? prove your might]

Just now, madham82 said:

That might work in this tightly defined scenario, but the game overall does favor real designs. But that's another subject entirely.

Except for dreadnought hulls. I really hate designing dreadnought hulls. The towers are painful.

[how is this beatable?!? prove your might]

1 minute ago, Cpt.Hissy said:

or simply because it is made out of Hood parts and you can't make it being a normal ship and not looking like Hood?

If you design it with a head on your shoulders.

[Which missions remain overly difficult?]

On 8/11/2020 at 7:04 PM, Darth Glorious said:

For the US Super battleship mission, I built a 9 x 18" ship, super heavy shells, best long range rangefinder with 16" belt and 6" deck, 30 kt speed. I kept the distance so most of the the escort did not attack me.

Try to pummel the BB with best accuracy first, you do not need to kill him immediately, just damage him enough so his accuracy drop to ~ 1-2% and switch to other BB. That will keep your BB in good shape so your accuracy penalty does not scale too much. When those BBs cannot hit anymore , you can try to slow down to your cruise speed to maximize accuracy and to conserve the ammo.

My only problem of this mission was ammo capacity. I won this mission with ~ 20 main gun shells left because 1 of the 3 BBs took 141 x 18" shells to sink (my accuracy is about 20% most of the time).

For Prove Your Might mission tips, you can view this post.

Personally, I think Prove your might and  Contest in the Black Sea are the 2 most difficult ones because you need to play a certain way to win.

Some tips for Contest in the Black Sea mission:

- Head southwest, keep your BC and CA close to your DDs to get bonus spotting from them.

- In the early minutes, spam 22,5 km range torps to slow down their BB and BC and strip those 20 chasing DDs of their BB and BC bonus spotting while your group run as far as you can from their capital ships. This is very important because without bonus spotting, those enemy DDs cannot spam torps from afar which can be very deadly.

- After about 1h of running away with spamming torps to your back, your battle group can try to slow down (I used 22 -26 kt speed), let some enemy DDs to catch up and focus fire them to death. Rinse and repeat until you win

Didnt really find US Super BB hard either, did it first try with a design really similar to yours, except I had 4x3 18", 30 knots, Many bulkheads, Stereoscopic V, the works.

[how is this beatable?!? prove your might]

Just now, Stormnet said:

That design looks just like HMS Hood...

 

Indeed, usually taking inspiration from already functional and existing ships goes a long way.

[how is this beatable?!? prove your might]

I completed this mission on like, my 5-7th try, I see no issue.

On 8/20/2020 at 1:59 PM, draconins said:

I was playing in Alpha 75  (basically current version at time of writing), and I just checked again.

Just to make sure, are you using "Balanced tech" , with:

• cheap towers (modern tower I and rear tower VII),
• two of tall funnel II with balanced boiler
• No acoustics or radio
• Basic hydraulic turret

For your benefit I screenshot the other part, try to compare the weight and cost on right side to quickly find where you overshoot.

Also this design is very optimized to weight and cost limit, so if there is balancing in future there might be need some adjustment however the concept should work well if gameplay still similar. For example, radar honestly does not really matter much

Thats aboslutely horrible, what the hell is this?

Issues in the numbers beyond my comprehension but in fact the key to this mission: Radar honestly, because without it in the balanced tech youre always gonna be outspotted and outgunned before you even see them - effectively making whatever you built useless.

Annoying, but you actually wanna go with Main Guns and fire control, and choose a slightly lighter caliber, 15" will do enough. Get good towers - accuracy is really important.

Once youre in, get in, start sniping, focus the bb, approach cautiously, use DD's to divert attention of CAs, and youll be gucci. You *can* also go at him head on, but like, why? youll only get your ass killed.

The biggest luck element in this scenario is positioning the enemy BB's bulkheads. Positioning means if you are able to instafire on him or not from the start, its good if you are, because then youll also probably be out of his spotting range, and knowing the AI, hell be woefully inaccurate.

Also speed. You need like a lot. My design is 32.5, which should be around enough, the enemy BB will be unusually speedy too.

Keep calm, and follow this design. Engine efficiency is 100%, mass and stability optimised to the max. Youll be solo, so radio is useless here (and youre really mass strapped)

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12 minutes ago, Cpt.Hissy said:

I'll add to that, we still have half the game missing entirely, and major part of the other half being placeholders. It's too early to "balance" anything.

Yeah thats true too. We'll just have to wait and see

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1 hour ago, Skeksis said:

FYI... Game balance - Wikipedia

Some interesting passages there....

"Most recently, game balancing takes players more into account, especially regarding the player created “meta”

"Improving game elements (and sometimes game mechanics) is called buff, a devaluation is called nerf. Both can be achieved indirectly by changing other elements or mechanics or introducing new ones"

"If a game is to provide a continuing challenge to players, it must also provide a continuing motivation to play. The game must appear to be winnable to all players, beginners and experts"

"The highest goal of balancing is always preserving or increasing the fun or engagement" 

Game balancing is very important, wouldn't you say.

Well what can I say my man, most of the people who payed 50 dollars for this pre order are historical or naval enthusiasts, who care more for realism than "fun or engagement". For them (and for me), realism *is* fun and engagement.

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5 hours ago, Cpt.Hissy said:

Exactly.
And penetrating shell that didn't go off, or overpen, just makes a hole and potentially spreads officer's panties all over the deck. Though it still can break some super duper important pipe or wire and cause problems with that.

@Cptbarney am sorry, do you know anything about how game entities physics and interactions are processed?

Ehh id imagine in this case its just a really detailed breakdown of the ship into logic units (armour belt, bulkheads, etc) with some trig and rng math plus base game shell properties to govern penetration, potentially modelled force application on the armour with some surface calculus (spread of force along the area of impact), idk, depends on the game, but visually the deformations are definetly not dynamicaly created, just a texture applied over impact site.

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6 hours ago, Masonator said:

A penetrating hit deals most of its damage with the bursting charge after it's made it through the armour. The vast majority of its kinetic energy is spent punching through the armour itself. It's still a huge impact, but centered over a very small area.

You only observe the "sledgehammer effect" as we'll call it from non-penetrating hits, where the full impact force is distributed over a wider area when the armour plate is rung like a bell.

I think it's less to do with ditribution of force and more to do with the armour having to deformate to compensate displacement done by the force of the shell at that site.

But yeah I'll agree that overpens only have smaller chance to deal signficinat damage for any one event, but I'd say have much more potential if they strike any internal structures such as engines, hydraulics lines, wires, linkages, w/e, even potentially compromising internal construction of the vessel.

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8 hours ago, Masonator said:

Uh, yeah.

That's literally how it works, dude. And how it works historically.

The sheer amount of kinetic energy transferred by a 1.5t 15" armour-piercing shell smashing into your ship, even if it doesn't physically penetrate your armour, is still more than enough to knock off your propellers, cave in your hull plating causing rapid flooding, knock your shafts out of alignment with their turbines, knock your shafts clean off their bearings, jam your turret mechanisms, etc. There's a whole host of things that can go wrong.

Here's a picture of a 13.5" hit on the German battlecruiser Seydlitz at Jutland. While the shell didn't penetrate, it buckled the hull, blew part of her armour belt into the sea, and let in thousands of tons of water.

Here's a 15" hit, also on Seydlitz, though this time it did penetrate. You can see the shell blew clean through over 9.5" of solid steel, and impacted with enough force to shatter the surrounding plating like glass.

No ship, regardless of how well-built or heavily-armoured, can shrug off naval rifles forever.

Wait, did this guy *minimise* his armour to not receive partial pens?

Yikes man

Edit:
oh wait he was complaining about increased partial/overpen damage,

yeah no thats still stupid, partial pens deal lots of damage, this aint World of Warships. Overpens should deal a bit more than partials imo, since they actually clean go through the ship and have more than ample opportunity do to insane damage.

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10 hours ago, Cpt.Hissy said:

Formation movement logic is still very much broken. I mean not AI and not commands.

In multi ship formations, only formation leader always behaves properly, but all subordinate ships can and will randomly derp around at any moment. It feels like they stop receiving data that tells them how to manoeuvre to stay in formation, and continue to do whatever they did last. Like sailing in straight line. 
Affects only movement, gunnery and target swapping still works as normal.

Please describe derping out, because I'm not sure what youre referring to. For me movement works generally okay, the only problems I have is new ships disregarding orders when a new squad has been formed, but this is due to me not actually giving any new orders to squads, which most frequently happens when I'm controlling destroyers. Otherwise I have experience no issues in how formation movement works, I'm not quite getting what type of random derping you mean.

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8 minutes ago, Stormnet said:

So, just clicking the plus buttom gives you free mass and money?

IMM GOOOONNA MAKE A 50 KNOT 20 INCH QUAD ULTRA BATTLESHIP RIGHT NOW!!!!

nah go make a 60 knot dd with 40 kilometer torpedoes instead

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13 hours ago, Marshall99 said:

I always experienced this issue. And I reported this many times. I don't know when will they fix this.

Seems like they maybe either having a hard time reproducing this issue on a large scale or figuring out the cause, or just it's existance being dependant on some old spaghetti monsters, or something that must come out as a later release.

If it was such a long issue (I've only noticed it now), I think the devs are definetly on it, just need to be patient and give them some time.

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17 hours ago, captinjoehenry said:

Partial broadsides have been a long time issue.  Good work on figuring out a consistent pattern for it thought!

Oh this isnt the only issue that I've found so far. I think since this patch theres also an issue where you can get free mass and money from thin air from duplicating hull designs.

You basically duplicate the hull (so far only tested this in Naval Academy Ship Contructor), and it magically gets lighter and cheaper. This seems like some bug when referencing the original design. 

During the bug you get about 25-30% mass and cost reduction for the hull, but at the same time, the bottom UI for selecting guns and towers etc is completely bugged, you cannot select anything apart form the hull selector to reset the hull. However, module selector on the left works perfectly, and you can get things like 44 knot battlecruisers while on maximum bulkheads and Anti-Torp V, and these changes do in fact work in battle.

Another peculiarity with this bug I discovered was when I wanted to try use this dupe bug to swap my guns from 19 to 20 inch in a stubborn mission. Because you cant actually change anything in the duped hull cos of the dead UI, I tried to swap the original hulls guns to 20 inch to then dupe and get free mass - but you cant launch it, says that its overweight! Weird, so I swapped it back to 19 inch on the original hull (without deleting the duplicated hull) and the duplicated hull is now magically launchable.

Software dev friends hinted this could be an issue in communications between prototype object's characteristics, namely tonnage and cost in this case, which is apparently a neat trick to save time on copying the design computationally.

This bug stays persistent each time you click "Rebuild ship" from battle, but fixes itself magically if you exit the constructor while building, or return to contructor after pressing "Retry" if you lost the mission.

Bug report for this has also been submitted.

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Really massive issue I've been having is guns not firing broadsides properly.

After testing it seems that the turrets that I place last are the ones affected.

Basically those turrets dont fire on half of the broadside shots. There seems to be a bug in how waiting for other barrels is handled.

The ship fires a broadside, reloads, and then one or two turrets (depending on number of turrets, personal experience gives 1 broken turret for 3 turret designs and 2 for 4 turret designs) dont fire on the next broadside, because the first 2 turrets do not fully wait for the last turret/s to reload. Then the turrets that didnt fire wait for the other turrets to reaload. This has a huge impact of DPM.

I already submitted a bug report for this, but I'm surprised many people here dont seem to have the same issue.