[Steam Keys distribution for old backers]

I have not seen a key yet can you please email it..

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33 minutes ago, arkhangelsk said:

First, because like it or not, the game may not line up with reality. In that case, it's important that you learn the game's position on the matter, before you decide on doing anything else.

Second, because like it or not, the real battleship isn't necessarily right. The fact is that we have not solved for the "Ideal Battleship" as well as we have solved for the Saturn V. We have gotten rid of some clear second best ideas - like wing turrets. But after a certain point, conservatism took over on a "good enough" design.

For example, take the little problem of secondaries. Real battleships have them, so should your UA:D battleship? Even in real life, secondaries often brought in disappointing results (Graf Spee's didn't land a single hit) and it is often justified for a hoped for moral effect - obviously, the solutions are not as rigorously scientific or mathematical as those who made the Saturn V. In fact, some parts are almost ... religious ... in their justification. But no one dares to beach the secondaries.

Would you say even so you should just blindly emulate real battleships and unthinkingly stick on secondaries?

Doug my friend...

Ok so they  are back to real except we are not real.  

All stop  as a former Navy seal said  "shit filter is full"

I am calling bullshit   Grandma always said you can't cure stupid.

 doug we are trying  to teach a pig to whistle, you just frustrate yourself and irritate the pig.

this my friend is a pig no matter how much lipstick they put on it or how fancy a dresses it wears it is still a pig.

Pity I  t wasted $$, and time on these frauds,  Pitty i can't get it back    I am done this salior can't stand lairs and thieves.

Tip:  maybe  the seller should consider the customer the customer the just pushed away well fool me once shame on you,  fool, me twice shame on me.

not one more ounce of effort not one more penny from me you will see.  now lets see  how does uninstall work.   good riddance.  i am flushing this turd.

Oh make that " Nay sayer"   you convinced me!

The review sure won;t be pretty.  the screen shots may just be epic.   as for me  CMO here I come  UAD Out you go, 

and to those I tried to be professional to , when you pull your heads from your asses let me know,  until then hello kitty off.

 

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4 hours ago, Skeksis said:

Being realistic is not absolute, does not imply simulation (even though it maybe the intention). Common mistake (by many!).

IMO the realistic term is being used in the context of gaming representation, to which is totally rational and material. All battle mechanics are based on fundamental principles, therefore not irrational nor abstract i.e. realistic. 🙂

I saw the pre-edit,  fair question,

I would like to be a fan yea, I sure did not  buy it to hate it and not to be a fan.

I was Just trying to point out some defects, some unrealistic parts and suggest things that would make it better 

some folks questioned if I know my Arse from a hole in the ground.    I get that folks who have not been in naval service may not 

see things that to me stick out like a whore in church.  that was why i suggested maybe a retired naval Officer for some technical guidance.   It is a strange world most have never seen. and it isn;t always logical to be sure.

No I m not providing a CV or my service jacket for consideration of a position ...  But if you take the constructive criticism as that 

I will try to point out the more egregious things  i see that  make it more believable/playable  where I can.   oh other said a PLOT,  my big vote yes on a VP for SA. 

I don;t know everything but I know a few things.

...

 

2 hours ago, DougToss said:

Absolutely uncalled for @Redletter45. I don’t like squids as much as the next guy, but a SME sharing relevant experience on a testing forum, during an alpha, is good feedback. 
 

I don’t see him slamming his MPRR on the desk and saying “hello kitty you, you weren’t downrange, you don’t know, here are my jump wings.” He wasn’t big leaguing you, he was simply saying he knows a thing or two beyond playing computer games that might help. That’s a positive contribution. Jesus Murphy. 

 

He’s making concrete observations, providing usable feedback and connecting experience playing the game to relevant experience in the field. He was not asking for an attaboy, and hello kitty you for implying it. If he had a degree in Naval Architecture or was a War College grad, would you be upset about his feedback then too? A degree in computer science? Game design?

When did offering relevant experience become a strike against? Here’s the thing - he wasn’t shouting you down or edging you out. He wasn’t monopolizing discussion, or talking down to anyone. His experience doesn’t negate your feedback. We’re all sitting at the table here. You took someone having real-world experience as a threat and threw a fit, but he’s always carried on like a fellow enthusiast, not a SME holding court.
 

As for the “Realism” thing - the Devs courted the Wargaming Press which is how the Grogs and Rivet Counters came by this title and this forum. Don’t try to weasel out of it by saying Realism doesn’t mean Realism when in the context it was used 13 times in the description, @jimh clearly offered a good faith reading. You would have to contort yourself to say they didn’t mean it would be simulating reality to one degree or another. 
 

It’s been what, 2 years? If the goals have changed, do a Find and Replace on the blog and take out “Realism”. Problem solved.

 

For what it’s worth, and because I’m tired about these tantrums, I’m a professional in defence too. I wouldn’t be puttering around on the forums, signed up to the Alpha and providing feedback if I didn’t think it would be relevant in some way. So to have that thrown back in our faces is insane. 

 

Again, we’re all playing the same game, gameplay feedback is shaped by our various knowledge and experiences. Some people have played more videogames and know more about that. Do you see this hostility levelled against them?

 

No. So what’s the deal? Do you go on the Forza forum and shout down guys who have studied/driven/worked on the various models of cars?

 

Stop dancing around it and get it all of your chest, because this is getting ridiculous. 

Doug,

 I tease doggies, jarheads and fly-fly boys too.  But in truth it just good humored fun (out of respect)  between  brothers in arms...   rather have em as friends then the other side.. can you imagine having 5 cousins all doggies and being the only squid...   lots of stories swapped however

You are spot on target bother, fire for effect!!!!     

I am or was trying to point out when I go Whisky Tango Foxtroat.  If i see something that just comes off wrong headed.  like ships running into each other,      Or what some call clown ships, torps never firing etc... i though they might think that is valuable feedback, (but maybe not.)   or  I wouldn't waste my time.

 

For the code-ies (post naval service)  spent 13 years an as an Application Eng taking code into the field for testing and support alpha/beta code.  I have worked with a number of developers sorting things out,  watching then code C#  I know it is hard work too,  I respect the effort. 

  I am not shooting at ya.  I am trying to give you feedback....   But someone puts a 5" across my bow, he might get an 8" returned...  Just saying  

  I am done here for a bit,  if Dev's don;t what to hear it  (if they do they need to say so)    I am not here for a pissin contest, either  I don't need it. better things to use my time for  like install   a gazelle trigger waiting to find  a home,   and my dog needs a bath, an moma has a hunny do list a mile long.   

I would give feedback if wanted if not, now where is that dog... 

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22 hours ago, Redletter45 said:

Find a simulator then. This is a semi realistic game where you can build wacky boats and fight other boats. No one really cares about how this is not your navy service simulator. 

 

With the amount of irrelevant stuff you've typed in here it mostly feels like this is a huge fishing expedition for a "thank me for my service" or that you are implying you want them to ask you to be their naval expert lol. 

 

Then why didn't they say that ...  I missed that part of the advertisement,  "This is where you can build wacky boats and fight other wacky boats " to paraphrase  ...

Oh to pick a nit  boats ride on ships .     They claimed   "realistic"  numerous time actually.   I thought they meant it.

 

I didn't ask for thanks,  don't want your thanks and surely didn't do it for your thanks.  it wasn't  about me, my generation wasn't wired for me me me me

Oh, no   I have a job.

If  they just want to be a arcade game or totally unrealistic they don't need any assistance.    

 

oh wow  i just noticed ur brand new account and this is your  1st  comment wow      sniff sniff sniff I smell a troll

 

 

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On 11/4/2021 at 10:29 PM, arkhangelsk said:

 

 

On 11/5/2021 at 7:57 PM, monbvol said:

*nod*

The prime consideration if they are serious about even so much as paying lip service to the notion of being realistic is that the bigger the ship the harder it is to replace and the longer you have to live with the consequences of your design decisions.

 

The Naval Academy does not teach this in any way shape or form.  I would dare say with how much randomization there still is in the Naval Academy missions it barely teaches situational specialization.

Hat tip.... and dead right.  

 

   you train the way you fight and fight the way you train.    the tactics you use are based on the strengths of the design and exploiting the weakness of the adversaries .  

    so if you create an clown ship to fight another clown ship your training to join a circus as a clown.  

 

you need realistic designs vs realistic situations with realistic mission orders  to develop winning tactics.  now since ships are largely similar it is the tactics you develop for the advantages you design in that tip the balance    and no one should think that is easy.  

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1st shot hit, yes multi-pal starts not just a one off  several times actually   opening shots 2x taking out my main battery   on the 1st salvo   i saw it shoot i saw it hit   that a bug or glich   i uninstalled and reinstalled it even.   

Ok your not understanding me 

ship A and ship B need not be exact they are not copies (well clasess are )    the hood the bismark, iowa, schornhost, kongo   etc  were not cookie cutter  they each had , their - and + comprises made one maybe faster  one better armor,  different gun set ups. but no ship has sailed for a single task .   there are differing designs and theory... but  more similar then different .   think of it this way the f14,15,18,f22 foxbat, fulcrum , flogger are pretty similar  too   they do similar roles even made by different AF's engineers but they have lots of overlap.      there is a reason real naval architects  build them as they do it isn't because of style. just same laws of physics.   a may have advantage here  b may have it there,,,, depends on a navy's chosen stragity

  A  bb is to fight BBs BC   but still needs to deal with  CL and Dd making a torp run while dealing with that BB/BC,  if his screen cannot manage  to keep the small fry at bay  or it is a cheap kill  but i would rather the CA/CL deal with the dd and let the bb concentrate on the line ship 

if you need needed a real example the CGN i served was tailored for AAW, ok  for subs a DD was the best choice, but we still had the 23 pair sonar, asroc and dual triple mk 46 tubes. ( harpoons to for other ships) hey  we wanted nothing to do with a sewer pipe generally.     we saw a sub we ran and called a Spruance p-3, s- 3 and the helos.  the Can  now she had a tail,  helo could literately stop in the length of the ship from flank (i rode one of these too)   the spruance  had Nato sea sparrow and CIWS   AAW wasn't there thing,  but still had self defense capability  but ASW where their bread and butter...   now  on that cgn we assisted a dd and helo to force a echo II ssn to the surface (and gave them a hell of a headache too  i suspect) we both pinged them  with active sornar for like 14 hours but the dd lead that engagement that was their thing...   and a sub is not  evading 2 ships a helo and and s3  all swarming them....    would we the cgn  have done it alone  not by choice...   push come to shove we could still engage  but the dd was a better choice.... that is what they were taylored to do

the kidd ddg same hull of a spruance dd was fitted as a double ender for aaw,   similar  i many respects but fitted for aaw mission off the same  hull not so much ASW

 if you look at any class of ship from any major navy   any era bb bc ca  cl dd   you would find within type a lot more more similar then different,,, the have their kinks depending on tactics and strategies  the navy prefers and needs...     as for the rest who wins looses   it is more about intel  leadership capts crew and training and a bit of luck.  find them,  fix them,  take the initiative hit and hurt them on your terms  first  and that goes a long way.  the usn shouldn't on paper win midway in 42 but they did, they had good intel found them and hit them 1st.  the japs were in a fight before they knew a cv was even out there.  

my point is all ships are generalists to a degree (except CVn and they never go alone ever)  all have some aaw, some asuw, some asw the amount depending on their primary mission

sets.     ships life is 30 plus years it needs to be built do they many missions  the country  need to do to support the nations needs  or it is useless. 

 

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well hello Admiral

i was providing honest feedback, what you attributed i said,  i never said,  you sir are a liar.  I was told realistic 13 times but now it isn't realistic, that is know as fraud and goes hand in glove with liar however.  

 

So standby  for heavy rolls while ship comes about, set condition Z   standy-by batteries release.....

So Admrial    lets get salty...   do you prefer spray or green water?

Now exactly how many decks of warships have you walked?  I mean  have you ever been on a real warship steaming at sea and not just sailed a keyboard?

ever experienced a 46 degree roll in sea state 8? 

turning in very heavy seas do you speed up or slow down?

do warships have even or odd bladed screws?  what is turn count masking? Are you a sand-crab (aka a sideways crawling beach creature) a  pollywog or likely just a just a scupper trout? 

Care to explain what is a Williamson turn and it use? 

what is the difference between a door  a hatch? are dogs allowed on ships? 

how d you check for pressure ? why would you, how do you check for fire? 

what is the difference between H,I and K shoring? what does it do ever done it

what is a QAWTD?  

what is a sounding tube?  why is it important to know what does it is

what is the purpose of  maneuvering board?  what is cpa, CBDR  what do the mean? 

have ever used a mo board?

youdou realize with radar or passive including mk 1 eyeball  and TMA  (takes longer) you can get range course speed,

 best course to intercept at any speed or avoidance  and a   you know a junior seaman radar operator or QM can do this in their sleep.

why doesn't  the program display speed and course of a target when you have radar? kind of useful tactical info you think admiral

ever seen the southern cross or know what it is and why important?  

when was the last time ur buddies set circle W on you?

what is a monkey fist,  do you understand what i was just saying ?

 

so the NA  should be optimal designs  for  arcade john wick missions... 

 

I said and others concured  that the later  missions are not tactically viable, anyone can make a clown ship buy  why

ok i want a cloking device , plasma torpedos,  4 disrupters and warp /impulse drive.... Krik, scotty and spock can escort with NCC 1701 too please. 

one is about as real as the other  my scupper trout   you can make mission challenging and have people make soundly fitted ships   without going clown mode . 

better to explane what things are what they do  what the trade off are  what are the benefits and downsides are  and make well fitted ships into well considered tactical situations  maybe in the advantage maybe out classed     know when to withdraw and how to  however anyone who suggests what yu have i cannot take seriously  did you used to make video game ?

as for best naval games i have seen   Harpoon  base off SeaTag/NavTag  ( created for the real naval academy you know one with the goat... )

 

my experiences,  any naval buffs want a good read?    http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-031.php   i was a young 2nd class petty officer/watch sup in combat (CIC)    on said  cruiser  playing silent sam.  and yea that was pretty   real....  or Ivan thought  so anyway ( Ivan crapped his pants)  I left the naval service in 1997      do the math...   I don't clam the end all be all i know what real navys do  and do not do.    do you

 

if this is going to be an arcade game ill pass   now piss off

 

 

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Hobo   exactly ...   

 

that was my point with the clown school   you don't send a BB vs 13 dd flotilla  u send  send 1ca, 2 cl and a few dd

you dont send 1bb vs 3bb,2ca and 5dd  you send a group  (bb ca cl and dd) based on what you can muster

if you cant do that now you don't  make the clown mission.  it is an insult to intelligence.   to do otherwise is not NA it is clown school and anyone honest and knowledgeable would know that 

either  let the player design the force composition ships  (by designing them or picking from a catalog)  i don;t mind spending hours working it up, but a catalog of prefab real designs would be fine too for faster startup.   

the point i hope i made was  you don't risk a capital ship to do something others are better suited to do.  BB and now CVN are jewels to be guarded jealously    a national asset, would anyone think send a bb vs a sub as training either , that is navys build escorts    (if we had subs)? that is again  clown school  heavies are made to deal with other heavies 

my points are to improve the game  not just bitch

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Not to  SPOILED SPORT,,, they advertised realistic no less the 13 times  in 1 of the pages...

 

the sim isn;t horrible it has promase  I do not hate it, i am frustrated by it, some are bugs that will hopefully be addressed,

I am frustrated with very poor mission design  that are more arcade like then sim like an equovlent would be  like a f16 1v10 going yea let engages  unless the goal is get killed...

i agree here witth you designs can have  different priorities or philosophies armor /speed, tech etc  but they should be expected to combat normal ships in a varity of situations  ships are not made for a specif mission  then scraped or remofiied for the next,      they are not sent to do the impossible and not do the unrealistic or impossible,,,

 

some ideas 

before launch a short breif or allow to see the screenset up your desired  formations   stations  keeping  set up up your divisions before shell are dropping then sail into battle

start at longer distance dont spam at 18km   you can speed up time if that is an issue,  allow to maneuver    into battle  don't  juts drop into one with shells flying   what were the lookouts and radar op asleep?

better ai station keeping and engagement 

1st shots are ranging and bracketing before full batteries fire  or you waste ammo   no one hits 2-3 on a 1st shot at long range,  

build real type ships if aI cannot or pull ai from a libary of classes... no clown ships

if in an overwhelmed mission  1 v 3many when ur out gunned and ot classed escape and evasion  and survive is winning 

ships are generalists what u tailor is the force composition to the intell  one of these 2 of thoses  etc... to make a force for the task at hand. (this maybe more campain  mode.

the achemedy should build ships, different mission and choosing realistic force compasition same as a camping just simpler  

 

war at sea is chess with ships...   they have much here to enjoy if i didn;t think so i would have scraped it already   just needs some tweaks and polishing and dumping the loony.        you dont need to graduate war college to learn how to do it   if you don't know et a consultant for some pointers  like basic or club chess (as oppose to GM)  club would be fine enjoyable and very challenging to most

 

 

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Ahhh as I said  that was my  profession " in the Real world'  AKA training wargaming  deploying  (with real ships and crews and planes)  to fight our ship,  CVBG / SAG against other real world navies (it was the cold war) ..  not a game

No  where in the real world would would 1 bb engage 4 bb, 4ca and 5 dd with orders to kill them all.    this is playstation... 

some education  in 1941  there were a total of 9 battleships in the entire pacific  ocean for the US    3 divisions  of 3bb and their escorts 

the specific mission was was 1 ship v heavy sag    and no one outside a loony bin would think this is learning.  I cannot take someone serious who does not get that.  if you cannot understand  that I can not explain it.   

there can be challenging engagement to be sure,  but teach people to learn what really happens  not some  crazy BS.   why not warp in some klingons too what the hell.   

ships are designed with many missions to be conducted they are well rounded, or they don't survive the real world.  armor vs speed thing always opposing each other    they have secondaries, AAA  , and all the rest,   1bb vs 1bb why add a torp belt? it is a slug fest  but a real bb worried about pesky destroyers, mtb and subs, and aircraft too they have  AAA  on every spare inch  for them pesky planes,    you don't refit a ship per mission.  you form a group each with straights and weaknesses, and that coms to menuvering not just abrest or in line

 

in real naval combat he find the other 1st get to an advantageous  position, and exploits it and hits first will normally win 7out of 10 times . history is full of examples,   you fight  to sink ships while  not getting sunk . 

so excuse me if an old salior get testy being told about how to be a play salior,   I was a salior. I rode ships  if i see BS i am calling it.   i have  seen and  touched a real live  16 inch warshot as well are real   5 inc or torp,  I mean live  not a museum piece or display?  I mean the kind that go boom.   I have steamed in a group with the real live  NJ in the real ocean and seen her on the gun range popping volkswagans.      I have also had long chats with my dad one sailor to another  he was in WII was a pointer on a 5/38"  on a dd  was  in the slot at the canal,  the turkey shoot, and had 7 battle star from major battles in the pacific. well you get the idea.

 

That said,  i don;t know everything, i was not an engineer or gunner, i didn't design ships,  i used what i was given. i is interesting playing with the different compromises  but only when you employ them vs realistic adversaries...  in realistic situations   other wise drop a buck and head for the mall....    

 I have walked enough decks closed enough WTD and steamed enough oceans to know a clown ship when i see one  and what isn't realistic. 

All said I do not hate this sim, not at all...   I just have high expectations, there is possibilities here   big ones.   i was sold a "realistic sim"  that is what I am asking for.  It is my hope they make it so

hey even hollywood gets expert  advisors for military film, for a reason,  they know movies but don' bolt from a bullet  (as we have recently seen) the experts keep it believable...

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John Wick can kill 3 BB with a pencil,  that's it!  i need 10 pencil main batteries. 

Seriously I want to like this sim (i won't call it a game) but it is so frustrating.

Buggie as a 6 week old rotten apple. , last night 5 dd allowed to be blown to bits never firing a torp at 5km from apposing bb who is beat to a pulp,     i take local control  shoot shoot shoot and nothing not 1 torp  leaves a tube for 15 min  and they become iron bottom sound.  WTF.  i wasted 3 hours setting up and playing for that.   

today suddenly secondaries won't attach in pairs  port and stbd, ok That is new  I am like WTF. 

 

Old Sailors are direct (it isn't personal or rude)  when i say ur father is your uncle and ur mom is your aunt  i am being rude

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Lets start from my perspective  I spent an adult life in naval service, doing this for real. I have served on nuclear cruser, Large amphip (small carrier), fast combat support, 2 Nuc aircraft carriers ( Enterprise and GW) and a DD in a warfighting rate. I lived in CIC.    I had high hopes this would be a good tactical simulation requiring realistic tactics and not a typical   PlayStation BS game.

 

These are my thoughts...

1. Hire a retired naval officer as an technical tactical  adviser. 

This game has serious  tactical  deficiencies, no one with an ounce of experience can take some of the "Naval Academy" missios  as anything other then a bad joke by someone who knows nothing.  No officer in any real navy would command and take a major capital ship i.e. high end BB  1BB vs   3BB, 5 heavies, and 5 destroyer.   you cannot if invincible hold enough ordnance to accomplish that sinking them all .   fact is    This would never happen, ever.   not even close to realism (is the a john wick BB)    And no Naval command would place someone in charge who was so stupid to try.     The only thing remotely close would be the Bismark break-out ( she had CA PE with her, and they were not tasked with engaging and destroy the British navy)  they were tasked to break contact  and  avoid the main fleet and do commerce raiding,  they failed, Bis managed to sink the hood but was damaged enough for a mission kill,   was forced to return to port from damage we all know the stories ending.    When heavily outnumbered you disengage and run like hell   except the most  unique situations (e.g. Battle off Samar).  That isn't an academy mission it was getting caught with their pants down and trying not to be killed en mass.  This requires bb john wick and about as real .   

2. No ship is constructed or for that matter refit  for 1 specific mission, none ever.  Capital ships takes years to make and are major investments,  (other battleforce ships are not  cheap for that matter ) all ships are designed with numerous missions in mind.  and they are made well rounded,  maybe campaign mode with address this the NA should support that theory

3. I won't rant too much on the bugs,   i have seen and others have noted,   battery fire, fleets that  cant maneuver or hold station (tip allow the "admiral to assign  ship stations there is more to driving then line  abrest or line a stern  ) don't spin circles, run into each other and otherwise be usless.  torps that never shoot. but are deadly accurate  from max range,   don't start a long rang battle between heavies at 18km no one spams in at 18k with heavies, scrap the clock it isn;t a race, this isn't a video game  let us close maneuver and try gain advantage

 

4  ditch the AI building crap ships  use period class  models ie BB  CA  DD MTB etc  there are thousands to choose from. they were build as they were for sound reasons and it would be realistic.  

5. Check the combat calculator for buggs,  I have experienced on 5 occasions out of like 9 being engaged at +26km and the opposition scoring multi  1st salvo hits... seriously  the first shots are fired to bracket and deliberately fired at different elevations to range you  only when ranged do salvo togeather  you don't get 2-3 on target from a cold tube.  anyone that lucky needs to go to Vegas or Monte-carlo.  

 

There is much i could like about this game, graphics are great,  some battles  seem reasonably viable and enjoyably challenging .  Others are garbage.  there is no joy or challenge to be forced to play an unplayable sim.    dump the junk get real and you could  have something worth of my time and  money.