Damage Farming - Demotions

[SKurj.]

Ok I'm a little confused by this. Is what Lord Vicious mentioned in the quote above allowed or is it also against the rules?

 

Not makin a whole ton of xp in each engagement, not getting assist or kill exp...  

[Blackjack Morgan]

Just another example of why the traditional "leveling" dynamic is worthless. Every MMO I have ever played that features traditional grinding to level ends up being exploited....not by everyone but by some. At the end of the day I just don't understand why developers continue to feel like this is the way to handle character development/progression. Grinding levels for the most part is nothing more than a time sink that is incorporated in game to keep players busy pursuing a "goal" in absence of real content. It does not really accomplish a whole lot 6 months after release except for new players who then feel compelled to either grind away mindlessly to catch up with the majority of players, cheat in order to expedite things, or move on because the grind is too boring. It truly is lazy game design buy developers across too many games these days.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Blackjack Morgan

[Eldberg]

Just another example of why the traditional "leveling" dynamic is worthless. Every MMO I have ever played that features traditional grinding to level ends up being exploited....not by everyone but by some. At the end of the day I just don't understand why developers continue to feel like this is the way to handle character development/progression. Grinding levels for the most part is nothing more than a time sink that is incorporated in game to keep players busy pursuing a "goal" in absence of real content. It does not really accomplish a whole lot 6 months after release except for new players who then feel compelled to either grind away mindlessly to catch up with the majority of players, cheat in order to expedite things, or move on because the grind is too boring. It truly is lazy game design buy developers across too many games these days.

I disagree to a point, but get your argument. Back when games such as World of Warcraft were relatively complicated (number crunching/fine tuning for maximum DPS output), the levelling up process was there to teach new players their character abilities/traits/limitations.  Arguably that is one of the reasons that levelling up in MMO's is valuable, especially in Naval Action. It gives new players a chance to learn mechanics and how to essentially play the game (which some people certainly need more than others).

The opinion on what is considered damage farming changes in a daily basis (or so it seems), perfectly illustrated by the removal of re-enforcements. The admin, who is the big boss around here, says that it is not illegal. The next day, they remove re-enforcements saying that there was a flaw in the mechanic that was being taken advantage of (which is the literal definition of exploiting). So on one hand they say it isn't exploiting, then on the other they say it is, but at no point are they going to take action on the people who were exploiting but not exploiting but actually exploiting. Go figure 

[Blood Eagle]

Games that are PVP oriented have no business being grindy, its stupid. They should of handled levels/ships/ect/similar to have Eve handles it and make it time based.

[BungeeLemming]

you realize that eve's system is absolute bullcrap if you want to start all over? do you?

 

every MMO is grindy. why? cause it gives players something to DO, something to look forward to.

 

NA is not grindy. All you need is time. you dont have to be in a 1st rate to go pvp. If you think thats the goal, your playing the wrong way.

Get a frigate, hell even brigs are good. Do pvp and the XP comes all alone. (If your any good ofc.)

An average fight where you stink stuff gives 1-3k XP and a button of cash. 30k upwards.

Not talkin about good fights which are even more rewarding.

[Brogsitter]

you realize that eve's system is absolute bullcrap if you want to start all over? do you?

 

every MMO is grindy. why? cause it gives players something to DO, something to look forward to.

 

NA is not grindy. All you need is time. you dont have to be in a 1st rate to go pvp. If you think thats the goal, your playing the wrong way.

Get a frigate, hell even brigs are good. Do pvp and the XP comes all alone. (If your any good ofc.)

An average fight where you stink stuff gives 1-3k XP and a button of cash. 30k upwards.

Not talkin about good fights which are even more rewarding.

 

Do you really believe your own words?!

[[MCC] Die Antwoord]

Do you really believe your own words?!

 

I liked the post but it was because of the 2nd statement in it...... but that last paragraph is fantasy world material for sure lol. Leveling through PVP alone would take about 4-5x the time.

[BungeeLemming]

Do you really believe your own words?!

 

regarding your question, Brogsitter:

Yes I believe 100% of what I say. If not, I exlamate it openly.

I play by the style I described every time I log on. (1-3 hours max. have to be spent with fun, not with grind)

And I try to be correct in this forums cause I know what can be done with incorrect statements.

 

So.

if you dont have anything to contribute to this thread I ask you to not post at all.

What you wrote is damm near trolling.

 

regards,

Bungee

[Ian2492]

I liked the post but it was because of the 2nd statement in it...... but that last paragraph is fantasy world material for sure lol. Leveling through PVP alone would take about 4-5x the time.

 

Sure but 10x the fun, I Solo/small group PVP'ed in my snow, then in my surprise, then trinco up to connie. I don't even want a 1st rate. 2-3 guys in privateer is a deadly pvp group and it's so much more fun than sitting in a line battle with a rated ship.

People are way to focused on ''Omg I -Need- the biggest ship!'' And they don't bother trying to find ways to enjoy every rate of ships in the game.

If you're the kind that absolutely need a first rate and you need it yesterday, sure it'll be grindy. But it's definitely a choice, it's not forced up on you.

[Prater]

2-3 guys in privateer is a deadly pvp group

 

is enough to kill an unwary Trinc.

 

Problem is, we are now forced to grind and play big ships.  If we don't, we risk losing all our ports.  Damage farming exploits have been removed, so we have to do it the correct way.  Those who damage farmed will only have a temporary advantage.  Everyone except the damage farmers know that.

[Ruthless4u]

Sure but 10x the fun, I Solo/small group PVP'ed in my snow, then in my surprise, then trinco up to connie. I don't even want a 1st rate. 2-3 guys in privateer is a deadly pvp group and it's so much more fun than sitting in a line battle with a rated ship.

People are way to focused on ''Omg I -Need- the biggest ship!'' And they don't bother trying to find ways to enjoy every rate of ships in the game.

If you're the kind that absolutely need a first rate and you need it yesterday, sure it'll be grindy. But it's definitely a choice, it's not forced up on you.

I feel the same, not looking for the next big ship so I'm pretty useless in the eyes of most due to not wanting a first rate.

[Quineloe]

I'd like to see someone stream going into enemy territory in anything other than a fir raceboat and get serious exp from PVP.

 

There's only two types of waters from my experience: Completely deserted or full of players that will swarm on any enemy ship showing up. Your little Brig is going to get sunk by Trincs and Constis and third rates.

 

So post your twitch here, show us how you do it.

[surfimp]

Problem is, we are now forced to grind and play big ships.  If we don't, we risk losing all our ports.

 

Fair enough, but - for sake of argument - one could reply: "Who cares!"

 

With the way that gold & resource production currently function, owning lots of ports just doesn't matter that much. I don't mean that as a criticism - the economic situation is very work-in-progress - but since EA we've seen a number of factions get reduced to a handful or even a single port and it just doesn't matter.

 

Which makes the whole "gotta level up so I can sail a 1st/3rd rate in a PB" thing kind of silly. Especially in the current case, where these grinders are going to have to do a ton more grinding to get back to where they were.

 

Sad that so few people spend their time in Naval Action actually PVPing, as opposed to "getting ready for PVP."

[Blood Eagle]

Fair enough, but - for sake of argument - one could reply: "Who cares!"

 

With the way that gold & resource production currently function, owning lots of ports just doesn't matter that much. I don't mean that as a criticism - the economic situation is very work-in-progress - but since EA we've seen a number of factions get reduced to a handful or even a single port and it just doesn't matter.

 

Which makes the whole "gotta level up so I can sail a 1st/3rd rate in a PB" thing kind of silly. Especially in the current case, where these grinders are going to have to do a ton more grinding to get back to where they were.

 

Sad that so few people spend their time in Naval Action actually PVPing, as opposed to "getting ready for PVP."

 

 

This is always the case for PVP games that have power creeps connected to grinding, its also one of the things that keeps PVP centered MMORPGs niche market.

 

I think back to darkfall, that game was such a wonder to play when Darkfall 1 first released and the server was rather close to each other in terms of leveling + skill. Said game had tons of skills, no skill cap so what happened?

 

People power leveled, got OP, rekted everything, which made all the other PVPers go into PVE grind mode. The grind was so long for new players coming in that they refused to stay after they have been ganked and looted by OP older players that have nothing better to do then camp noob spawns since no one is PVP'ing other then the elite few who power leveled.

 

Its a vicous cycle.. hardcore players grind hard, troll the casuals, make the casuals quit, try to hold on with low pop numbers, then quit themselves and complain about pop numbers blaming the devs for something they created.

[LuckyJack]

Fair enough, but - for sake of argument - one could reply: "Who cares!"

 

With the way that gold & resource production currently function, owning lots of ports just doesn't matter that much. I don't mean that as a criticism - the economic situation is very work-in-progress - but since EA we've seen a number of factions get reduced to a handful or even a single port and it just doesn't matter.

 

Which makes the whole "gotta level up so I can sail a 1st/3rd rate in a PB" thing kind of silly. Especially in the current case, where these grinders are going to have to do a ton more grinding to get back to where they were.

 

Sad that so few people spend their time in Naval Action actually PVPing, as opposed to "getting ready for PVP."

 

what do you mean by "where these grinders are going to have to do a ton more grinding to get back to where they were." Wipes arent going to reset your xp level and crafting xp level, if your worried about getting back into bigger ships I went from PVP2 to PVP1. Took maybe 1 and half days and Im back in 3rd rate. So i fail to see where the grind is. The worse thing is blue prints. I do agree to many get ready for pvp instead of actually PVPing. This game is setup to where if your a half decent player you can practically pvp at any level.

 

I will say this also. Not being directed to any one individual. If you dont like grindy games why play mmorpgs. That is literally what every one of them is. In one way or another you will have to grind to get levels or grind to get better crap or both. I saw eve was mentioned as an alternative. I cant think of a worse example to use then eve, especially when it comes to being new player friendly. Maybe Archeage would be worse then again its kinda completely pay to win. Point is MMORPGs that have both pvp and pve will always have a grind hell thats half the purpose. Try a korean game if you think this is grindy. If you dont like it then dont play them. Theres tons of more casual fun and exciting games like World of Warships. Oh and i hate to use this but with respect its alpha quit complaining about lack of content and be patient. You know this shit is gonna be amazing soon enough

 

A lot of MMOs have pvp zones so that new players can level safely with out the worry of being griefed by old players. This game could use that, although Im not sure how they would implement something like that with the current map and port battle set up. Maybe one way would be pvp could only be done somewhat near the "front lines" so to speak. Anyway my half asleep rant is over.

[Prater]

No, we do not need pvp zones.  Maybe pvp free zones around capitals, but that is it.

[JCDC]

it is a very difficuly situation.

 

If you remove the grind, you remove the interest for most and you well get complete noobs floating around in santis, large pvp battles would be hopeless and there would be no sense of risking assets you put time into. there would be no competitive nature to a lot of the game.

 

If you have the grind, you get some players dominating others and abusing their power to inadvertently and selfishly destroy the game.

 

its very hard to know what is best. i think maybe a 'time served' system like Eve is reasonable, perhaps with acceleration caused by in game achievements?

 

there is no perfect answer. people will ruin any system you use. PvP games will always be very toxic because a large enough proportion of humans are very nasty and competitive and don't look at the long term effects of their actions. they care only about immediate satisfaction.

[surfimp]

what do you mean by "where these grinders are going to have to do a ton more grinding to get back to where they were."

In this specific case (the damage farmers who have been demoted), they have in fact had their XP wiped. So they are "the grinders who are going to have do do a ton more grinding to get back where they were."

I just feel like the port battle thing, and its tendency to privilege having the "most of the best" ships, leads people down this path of "grind PVE so you can PVP", to the extent that many people eschew actual opportunities to seek PVP in the open world, in favor of the "more efficient" PVE grinding activity. To the extent that they use exploits to level up as quickly as possible... but it's all for a mechanic - the port battle and port capture - that demonstrably just doesn't matter very much at the current time.

[DeRuyter]

I'd like to see someone stream going into enemy territory in anything other than a fir raceboat and get serious exp from PVP.

 

There's only two types of waters from my experience: Completely deserted or full of players that will swarm on any enemy ship showing up. Your little Brig is going to get sunk by Trincs and Constis and third rates.

 

So post your twitch here, show us how you do it.

 

I believe there are vids on YT already. Having said that in certain areas groups of players are going into "enemy" territory and getting PVP - Pirates and Spanish on US coast for example.

[surfimp]

I believe there are vids on YT already. Having said that in certain areas groups of players are going into "enemy" territory and getting PVP - Pirates and Spanish on US coast for example.

 

I currently sail for Spain on PVP1 and love patrolling between Cabo Canaveral and Sunbury in small fore-and-aft rigged ships. I don't jump in on other player's admiralty missions, and I don't pick on newbies, but I find plenty of good 1v1 PVP fights, try (and usually fail, LOL) to capture player traders, and etc. IMHO it's a lot of fun for all involved and really captures the spirit of what I think Naval Action should be about. Also, it alleviates the need to get bossed around by people obsessed with port battles.

 

Oh, and the last thing I'm thinking or worrying about is ranking up. I can captain (with full crew) up to a Cerberus but spend 99% of my time in Privateers and Basic Cutters. I'm no threat at all in an RVR sense, but I'm giving like-minded players in the US faction something to do in the GMT -8 timezone. IMHO it's working out great and I'm really enjoying the experience.

[StandingCow]

No, we do not need pvp zones.  Maybe pvp free zones around capitals, but that is it.

 

I think this is a fair solution, new players need a semi-safe area to level up and learn the ropes.  It wouldn't be a terrible idea to have low level missions (up to 2nd LT?) spawn near the capital and it be a no pvp zone.

[Lannes]

I'm new to this game. What is 'damage farming'? Is it possible to occur with P v AI ? I have been playing only missions, except for the odd time when my Cutter has been challenged.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Lannes

[Fletch Hardy]

I'm new to this game. What is 'damage farming'? Is it possible to occur with P v AI ? I have been playing only missions, except for the odd time when my Cutter has been challenged.

 

No, its when two players go into a battle, shoot each other to get damage XP, and exit before either sink.

[Hethwill]

No, its when two players go into a battle, shoot each other to get damage XP, and exit before either sink.

 

It is slightly more "interesting" than that so the devs have a keen eye for it and KNOW the difference.

 

I did have more than a few combats that ended in a retreat from both sides after hard combat and they would never be considered like "farming".

[Fletch Hardy]

It is slightly more "interesting" than that so the devs have a keen eye for it and KNOW the difference.

 

I did have more than a few combats that ended in a retreat from both sides after hard combat and they would never be considered like "farming".

 

Yes but what you mentioned is perfectly normal and allowed, the farming exploit refers more to people of the same faction or realm as well, point is that it should be reported if it is seen.