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Ampen

A suggestion for navigation

First mate/Navigator?  

78 members have voted

  1. 1. Ye need a first mate, yeah or nay?

    • Yeah!
      34
    • Nay!
      44


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Even though I can somewhat see the charm of trying to find out your position on the open sea and such, there's really in my opinion a need for at least some crude navigation aid. If you are about to meet up with someone, or if you're out in on the open sea in search of a mission while there's a fog, having somewhat a clue of where you are wouldn't only be helpful, it would also be logical since I assume that on these vessels we sail, one of the crewmembers will be a navigator. Of course, it's important for the captain to know navigation as well, but the expert should be the navigator, or he could be called First mate as well.

For these reasons, I suggest the following:

 

  • A permanent crew member, the navigator/first mate, who individually gain XP and progress. This person start out as a true rookie, having more or less no clue what's rear and front of a boat, but has been assigned the role of navigator. Twice every hour (30 minutes cooldown skill) you can on the map ask for your position, wich will then be referred to you as a circle.
  • With a rookie navigator/first mate, this circle would not only be pretty damn big, there could also be an offset in N/W/E/S direction.
  • Offset and position circle increases the further away from land you are and/or the longer you've been at sea (up to a max value)
  • As this person gains skill, the offset will get less and eventually go away completely, and the circle will be gradually smaller
  • An expert navigator/first mate will give a position with no offset and with a small circle, giving you very good information on where you are
  • The navigator/first mate will be positioned near the rudder wheel of course, and can in battle if this part of the crew is hit get killed, say a 5% chance. If that happens, a new crew member is called into this duty after the battle, and this person start out as a rookie on navigation, and will have to gain the XP and progress again.
  • If the ship is sunk, there's a chance (10%?) that the navigator/first mate drowns. If so, a new crew member is called into duty and start out as a rookie on navigation.

 

edit: added suggestions.

Edited by Ampen
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add compass and sector to map. yet im fine with navigation even without any instuments, regular navigation compass works for me.

 

no need for any map help. Ppl should learn to old way

  • Like 3

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add compass and sector to map. yet im fine with navigation even without any instuments, regular navigation compass works for me.

 

no need for any map help. Ppl should learn to old way

 

The old way would include:

 

A ruler

A protractor

A Marine Chronometer

An octant

A Lunar distance table

 

Also would record the speed and time traveled at a course and plot out the "approximate" location by Speed/Time = Distance traveled.

 

There is no scale, no representation of a nautical mile, stop watch, and not to mention the wind changes ever 5 minutes so accurate speed calculations are impossible.

 

 

Bottom line, navigation in this game is easy, but to sit there and act like you are somehow amazing and doing it the "old way" is just bullshit.

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Would love to see a toggled compass that can be used to take a sighting with the UI turned off. And also a watch than can be toggled off or on.

If we do have a navigator he could call out his findings and not type the location into the text. We should be able to toggle this on or off or just summon a response on a keybinding. Will get pretty annoying if he keeps yelling out "Land due west Sir!" over and over.  

 

The idea of  error in the results that the navigator calls out is interesting.  Perhaps very poor directions from the low rank navigator and just unreliable direction from the highest rank navigator.

 

Personally ... there are other ways to plot a course outside of the game and perhaps the developers have better things to build.

There are simple tools to create a decent plot within http://map.openseamap.org/

Or you can use a more accurate map and take your own measurements. http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/8451-shrouded-recluses-map-with-accurate-coords/

 

I would really love to see a compass and watch.  That should be reasonably easy to develop.

Edited by Macjimm

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Personally ... there are other ways to plot a course outside of the game and perhaps the developers have better things to build.

There are simple tools to create a decent plot within http://map.openseamap.org/

Or you can use a more accurate map and take your own measurements. http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/8451-shrouded-recluses-map-with-accurate-coords/

 

I would really love to see a compass and watch.  That should be reasonably easy to develop.

 

Well, this is sort of the issue I have. Sure, one could say like Buccaneer, "Uhm hardcore, L2P", but truth is some will use different tools or maps or whatever anyway if they need to.

Now, in that case, why not include something in the game, but with some flavor?

 

On top of that, compass and stuff would be nice, the idea with the mate being killed though is that you could end up on the OS without him, and be forced to sort things out yourself again, until next first mate has gained some XP at least.

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Here's my take on how to add some functionality to the map without eliminating the skill of navigating...

  • Add a simple wire-frame compass rose that can be moved around the map (like a layer in the graphics programs people are already using).
  • Add a simple line tool that allows you to drag a line from one point to another.
  • If you want to expand on the line tool, it could estimate the number of days at sea to travel that distance at your ship's potential max speed based on the length of the line.
  • To further aid the use of the line tool you could have the direction of the line tool placed over your above compass rose translate to a single line mark on the OW compass so you can follow your plotted line.
  • If the developers ever cave and give the player a map marker for where he is, then it should be a circle placed at a random XY around your current location (not centered on your ship) but the circle should expand in relation to the number of days you've been at sea starting from a small possible area to a large one.  That would only give you a rough idea of where you could be.
  • A good navigator (officer) could reduce the size of the circle, and the amount of random XY offset each update.

These things won't tell you where to go, but they would allow you to hold a heading instead of guesstimating direction, and give you a really rough estimate of how long the trip should take.  All things that were readily available to the densest of ship's navigators back in the day.

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I am perfectly happy with the current state of navigation and don`t need  more instruments.  Its just 4 sides  and plenty of spots to guess your coordinates more or less precisely. Its not rocket science. I have never been lost, although I missed destination from time to time but thats the realism of it and it`s GOOD THING. It gives captains the feel of exploration anr real sailing.

 

And to hell all the map gps markers!

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I know what does it mean to sail against the wind. I have a little, and simple solution to avoid (as much is possible) getting lost.

Let's suppose I need to go west, and the wind is blowing right in my face. I tackle the wind heading SW. I time myself and let's say after 3 min I veer on NW. Repeat the operation and more or less I stay on a westward course.

I like the navigation system and I hope they will never implement a GPS system!! :)

Edited by Antonio_Pigafetta

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Another option would be, rather than having a first mate, have a specialist slot or slots (depending on the size of the ship) that give specific bonuses in addition to the bonuses from upgrades. 

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Well... you never stop learning. I just discovered that the key "home" if pressed one time, will unlock the camera. But if you press it a second time you can actually move the camera up, down and sideways and forward (use the key for navigation). Now I can be really high above my ship and even go further while I am navigating (while in such mode you cannot steer the ship btw). So no more problem of getting lost among the islands... you will have always a bird-view of where you are and it is easy to match the location it with the map. A bit unrealistic maybe, but a great way to take shots of your ship :)

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Ciao Able...

well we kind of have spyglasses. If you unlock the visual with the key "home" you can go ahead your ship (or even sideways) and actually see closer the cities and even THEIR NAMES!! You will be so far away that nobody will even see you!!!

Was so excited when I did it... again with this system no more guessing when navigating. The only thing you need is some point of reference and it is done. Cannot believe I missed that before. 

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Bottom line, navigation in this game is easy, but to sit there and act like you are somehow amazing and doing it the "old way" is just bullshit.

 

whats ur problem? get a beer, relax

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Ciao Able...

well we kind of have spyglasses. If you unlock the visual with the key "home" you can go ahead your ship (or even sideways) and actually see closer the cities and even THEIR NAMES!! You will be so far away that nobody will even see you!!!

Was so excited when I did it... again with this system no more guessing when navigating. The only thing you need is some point of reference and it is done. Cannot believe I missed that before. 

 

Well, I have issues with this, as with the advice "press F11 and check your coordinates". I don't want a GPS giving me coordinates, I don't want to float away like an albatross to the nearest shore, what I want is something that gives you a rough estimate of your general whereabouts.

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I absolute agree with you on the spyglass. They should implement it asap.

As I mention in my previous post, the "albatross" view is kind of unrealistic; but if it is all we got for  now well I am using it :) It is also a great view to take snapshots :)

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I came up with a very similar idea. Could add risk to using any "navigation tools". In order to navigate a spot on the map, your ship has to be stopped. (which i agree, that it should NOT be totally accurate. It would look nice, if that "circle" was a magnifying glass. The further you are, following your plotted course and distance to destination, the more or less magnified area of your location to your plotted course)  Which, depending on how long your npc navigator took to "find/calculate" your location, would raise the risk of being attacked while navigating. 

 

I like this Idea. And, I am against hand holding. But, with some thought, it could work, be immersive, and not hold your hand. All at the same time.

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I came up with a very similar idea. Could add risk to using any "navigation tools". In order to navigate a spot on the map, your ship has to be stopped. (which i agree, that it should NOT be totally accurate. It would look nice, if that "circle" was a magnifying glass. The further you are, following your plotted course and distance to destination, the more or less magnified area of your location to your plotted course)  Which, depending on how long your npc navigator took to "find/calculate" your location, would raise the risk of being attacked while navigating. 

 

I like this Idea. And, I am against hand holding. But, with some thought, it could work, be immersive, and not hold your hand. All at the same time.

 

The idea of a greater chance of error the further out I like. Can't see why you would have to be stationary for navigation though.

 

push: navigation tools to buy like upgrades

 

And missions and/or tutorial to learn how to use them.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navigational_instrument

 

Holds some merit, and I suppose it could be part of it, but I would assume captains sailing in these waters would have the basic equipment needed to determine their position.

 

If you've already seen it, skip it.  If not and you care for a contrary view, here is my opinion in some detail.

 

I'm not opposed to player created maps or tools, and if some of that is implemented in the game might as well be good. But those mostly are about navigation and taking bearings. Some tools pinpoint the position with help of the bug report function in F11 though and most seem fine with that.

My issue with it though is that the bottom line becomes that it's not ok with any sort of help except the map and the compass in-game, but of course, using F11 and a player made tool outside the game, or a map for that matter, is totally fine. End result seem to be a principle matter instead of a practical one, and something that will be a hazzle for new players. 

 

My argument isn't with map and compass though, or taking bearings etc. I oppose to not having an ability to somewhat pinpoint your position on the map, wich was really a well-known skill at this time. I'm not saying it should be GPS-accurate in anyway, make it something that gives you a hint about your general whereabouts, wich I consider would be the least the sailors of this time would be able to do.

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The whole reason I mention being stationary is; It adds risk to the navigation. But, it could work while moving as well. But, the added movement might extend the estimation considerably. So why not..lol

 

Like I have said in other posts. I am not opposed to a difficult game. I really like not having my "hand held". On the contrary though. I also don't think that adding added difficulty, just for the sake of it, is worth it either. It make me think like this:

 

I like to go to this gourmet restaurant. (It's just been opened, and most of the equipment isn't even in there yet.) I want to Pay high dollar for my meal. Tip the waiter, but I have to get my own meal, cook it, and clean up. It will remove the greatness of MY experience if a Chef cooks it for me, and a Waiter brings it to mel. Its easy to cook, I can easily cook my meal, and bring it to my table. And, if you go to this restaurant, you should have to as well, or it will ruin MY experience.

 

Lets face it, this game has a gourmet price. For them to NOT to add some ways to find yourself, isn't natural for the time, or a mechanic. It's there, just because. There could, and should, be a way! And, would not only leave in some difficulty, add some risk, and at the same time, be helpful. No reason to have unrealistic difficulty, just to have it.

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i like some of the ideas but prefer it always be a somewhat vague position fix.

 

I quite like the idea that you can actually get lost in this game unlike just about any title I've played. I wouldn't want to loose it and feel quite pleased when I make a long transit and I'm bang on course or dead recon a fix on available references after getting lost, run off course be wind or avoiding pursuit, etc.

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i like some of the ideas but prefer it always be a somewhat vague position fix.

 

Here's what ours looks like.  Is that what you have in mind?

 

NoonSightExample.png

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It is good as it is now.  And in those times what this game reflects there was nothing but compass and map for navigation. And as an extra ships had simple log for speed and depth measurement.  All manual.  Sextant was invented around 1740 but was taken into use only 1800's.

So no additional navigational aids are needed. There is the map and compass and we can see the speed and depth and the shallow waters. You can navigate with those items. This game will be ruined if there are any kind of additional help.

 

If you want more navigational aids the go to play World of Warships.  

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