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Patch 9.63 - Iron crisis

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My chat box lasted record time last night. But failed after some time. Two reboots could not keep it going.

I submitted a ticket.

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The global elite a shadowy group only whispered about in taverns and houses of ill repute are said to be targeting specific resources and operating from the secret port known as Bubbleopillous only whispers but I hear the next bottleneck will be garlic,wine and tea and crumpets.In other news mass swathes of Trinidad have been cleared for plantations of oak, it's a crazy world out there.Dont even start me on the tuna fish.

Edited by Tac
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"Kill will be granted only if enemy ship is sufficiently damaged to sink her. "

 

What's this actually mean? is this a nerf to helping players with missions?

 

Could mean you can't just barrel roll them over for a quick kill without doing any damage? Depends if it sinking like that counts as it taking damage.

I can't think of anything else it can be.

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This is probably the fifth time I've read on this forum that a mysterious "small group" of players are conspiring to restrict access to specific resources, and that you are powerless against those evil traders with an imaginary monopoly. I believe I will dispel this myth with a video tutorial that provides step-by-step instructions on how to properly outbid the competition.

 

the "conspiracy" is read into my post by you. I am not responsible for what you think my post says. A couple of players just do it, and this is the result.

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Production is never "blocked". In fact, production is unaffected by contracts. If a port produces 250 oak logs, it doesn't matter if there are no contracts or one thousand contracts - it will produce 250 oak logs.

It appears that you expect to be able to sail into any port, at any time, and see a plentiful stock of all goods for sale. A game with scarce resources is not "unbelievably broken"; a game with scarce resources is "fun". Some of us are drawn to a game of free market competition, and others would rather eliminate a player driven economy in favor of trading with AI.

If I were not a particularly skilled negotiator, I might also be inclined to advocate instead of play the game. I'm sorry if I outbid your contracts. If it helps, I had planned to allow you buy your next ship on a payment plan with special new introductory interest rates.

 

not blocked as in disabled, but blocked from entering the stockpile in harbor

 

 

I'm not against scarcity of resources, that should deffinitely stay in game. What I dislike most about the current contract system is that it works on way too big scale and that it works even when player is offline or at the other side of the map. On one hand that is very usefull, on the other hand it turns any attempt to find certain resource into Naval Action Contract War edition. 

 

 sure, if I sail into harbor and there is none of the resource I need because it is bought out by active contract then I can set up contract of my own with higher price ... and that will again buy out all the production, this time into my stockpile, until either my contract ammount is filled or until other player comes around and sets up another contract with even higher price. Lets use the oak log and 240 production per day (which is 10 units per real hour) port as example. Sail into port, find out that there is contract buying all production for 100 gold per unit, so I set my own contract for 101gold, lets say for 60 units (6 hours production). Few hours later someone else enters the port and because he doesn't find any oak logs in stockpile he sets his own contract, 102 gold per unit for unknown ammount. Thanks to the fact that ammount bought so far through the contract is shown in contract screen, if I'm online I'll find one hour later that the contract I placed no loger works because someone has placed higher priced contract. I don't know how big contract (or how many contracts from how many players) are above mine, so the only thing I can do is go back to the port, claim the ammount bought by contract so far and replace the contract with new one beating the latest displayed price. And then the cycle continues, with god knows how many players trying to beat each other in contract prices just to get some friggin oak logs. There aren't many ports producing certain resources and the ammounts produced are really low (in low hundreds), which means that just a few contracts from few players for pretty small ammounts can tie entire harbor production for next few days or weeks into contracts ... waiting this out really isn't an option, that would only mean you never get any of the resource.

 

there really needs to be some sort of mechanism to keep the contracts at least somewhat in check

 

option 1) simply limit the maximum ammount you can contract ... fixed ammount, or percentage of harbor production --> simplest solution, but not really ideal. Some adjustment of contract limits would probably be good as part of broader solution, but the limit won't solve this by itself.

 

option 2) limit placing contracts only to ports where you have outpost --> it would make sense, if I can't store anything in ports without outpost (if I sail away items are destroyed) then I shouldn't be able to stockpile tons of resources there with no real limitations. It would also mean player has to place outposts strategicaly if he wants to produce resources through contracts. And the price of outposts (permits + outposts) means that player can't have unlimited number of outposts, meaning he can't have contract in every single port he sails into. Or as alternative, pay hefty storage fee depending on how long and what ammount you stored in port where you don't have outpost.

 

option 3) don't show the ammount bought so far in the contract overview --> frankly, this should happen in any case. It would simply mean that contracts would use the same rules (and limits of the age of sail era) about information given to player as the rest of the game. You can't check prices/resources in harbors unless you are in that harbor. You can't list items stored in your outposts (unless you are in that harbor). Etc .... so why does the game report to player that in last hour he bought 10 more oak logs in harbor thousand miles away where he doesn't even have outpost? In the contract list you should only see what contracts you have placed (ammount, price) and where, but not the hour by hour update on ammount bought.  If you want to check how much resources your contracts have bought, you have to check manually by going to the harbor.

 

 

I have nothing against players buying out entire production of harbor if they want to. But it should be player who does that, not automatic script that saps even the tiniest ammount produced from the harbor immediately and even notifies the owner about it across hundred of miles.

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 sure, if I sail into harbor and there is none of the resource I need because it is bought out by active contract then I can set up contract of my own with higher price ... and that will again buy out all the production, this time into my stockpile, until either my contract ammount is filled or until other player comes around and sets up another contract with even higher price. Lets use the oak log and 240 production per day (which is 10 units per real hour) port as example. Sail into port, find out that there is contract buying all production for 100 gold per unit, so I set my own contract for 101gold, lets say for 60 units (6 hours production). Few hours later someone else enters the port and because he doesn't find any oak logs in stockpile he sets his own contract, 102 gold per unit for unknown ammount. Thanks to the fact that ammount bought so far through the contract is shown in contract screen, if I'm online I'll find one hour later that the contract I placed no loger works because someone has placed higher priced contract.

 

Again, I am sorry if I outbid your contract. This does not indicate a problem with contracts, but points instead to your ineffective trading strategy.

If you don't want to be outbid, you should not raise your bid by a single gold unit. If you aren't getting any oak at 101, it does not mean that contracts are the problem - it simply means that oak is worth more than 101. If your bid more closely resembled oak's actual value, you would not need to worry about being outbid. In other words, don't bid 101 on oak; bid 200.

I am concerned by the pestilent demands by some on this forum for plentiful and cheap goods. The oak is out there, you just aren't willing to pay what it is worth.

Prices are gradually settling into their natural values. Just because you saw oak for sale last week at 80 gold does not necessarily mean that it is worth 80 gold this week. You will need to become comfortable with the fact that oak is worth much more - which is totally fine in the context of gameplay.

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This is a killer for solo players. This means you have every time to pray pleople to join your group or let you join to their group.

 

Yes it is. They seem to have thrown us to the wind my friend. I enjoyed sailing with other strangers and welcoming them into my missions, and thereby getting to know them as players. Now that's been taken from us. Give us a Toggle and give us players a choice please. If someone has a sensitive target then they can toggle the battle limitations so no one can grief. But smacking the rest of us like this is unfair. I enjoyed the socialization it brought.

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Again, I am sorry if I outbid your contract. This does not indicate a problem with contracts, but points instead to your ineffective trading strategy.

If you don't want to be outbid, you should not raise your bid by a single gold unit. If you aren't getting any oak at 101, it does not mean that contracts are the problem - it simply means that oak is worth more than 101. If your bid more closely resembled oak's actual value, you would not need to worry about being outbid. In other words, don't bid 101 on oak; bid 200.

I am concerned by the pestilent demands by some on this forum for plentiful and cheap goods. The oak is out there, you just aren't willing to pay what it is worth.

Prices are gradually settling into their natural values. Just because you saw oak for sale last week at 80 gold does not necessarily mean that it is worth 80 gold this week. You will need to become comfortable with the fact that oak is worth much more - which is totally fine in the context of gameplay.

 

 

the 100 / 101 price was just an example

 

I'm not asking for plentiful and cheap goods, I'm asking that the goods should be obtained by players, not by automatic scripts. I get it that you are really in love with game mechanic that allows you to purchase resources even when you are offline, store any ammount of resource indeffinitely for no aditional cost in any port regardless if you have outpost there or not, and even notifies you with hour by hour updates if the script is still working or not (which means someone has outbid your contract). No need to check if resource is in stock, no need to check prices, no need to spend time sailing to target port to purchase available ammount of resource ... contract does everything for you, buying entire available production as fast as it is produced and even tells you when it stops working so you can make a trip to the port to adjust the contract to new price. Come on, if you want to play as trader then spend time doing some actual trading. Don't require the game to do all work for you while you take a nap or watch a movie.

 

And as much as you might like this as very profitable source of income, this game mechanic in the form as it is done now simply doesn't fit the era or game theme.

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Well, I too liked the open battles actually. Many people on my friends list in fact sneaked into "my battles" and all of them asked nicely if I needed help or if I wanted to board the ship or just sink it. Yes, I had one single person not talking and just shooting, that was in the very beginning of early access and I remember the chat not working there sometimes. Yes, there are people ganking, I am sure, but I usually just went hunting at some places NOT in front of any hometown' s doorstep and it always worked out well - I have about 172 hours of playtime, thus it' s also not just some beginners luck or something.

 

And hey, am I really the only one who also actually liked that NPC ships could in fact disengange from boarding? It felt like, well for me at least, kind of immersive ALTHOUGH I accept, that it could be very annoying at times.

Edited by Nukenin

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Again, I am sorry if I outbid your contract. This does not indicate a problem with contracts, but points instead to your ineffective trading strategy.

If you don't want to be outbid, you should not raise your bid by a single gold unit. If you aren't getting any oak at 101, it does not mean that contracts are the problem - it simply means that oak is worth more than 101. If your bid more closely resembled oak's actual value, you would not need to worry about being outbid. In other words, don't bid 101 on oak; bid 200.

I am concerned by the pestilent demands by some on this forum for plentiful and cheap goods. The oak is out there, you just aren't willing to pay what it is worth.

Prices are gradually settling into their natural values. Just because you saw oak for sale last week at 80 gold does not necessarily mean that it is worth 80 gold this week. You will need to become comfortable with the fact that oak is worth much more - which is totally fine in the context of gameplay.

 

Spare us the theory. I think we are all aware of how economy works irl. This is, however, a game and we play it to have fun. Those of us who chose to explore other aspects of the game than trading during the first few days after release, simply don't have the funds to compete, and now it is too late to make those easy quick big bucks. I'm sure this is great fun for you, but for the majority it's not. There is a limit to how much "reality" you want to put into a game, because when the reality factor reaches 100%, we might just as well go to our real jobs and then your in game gold will be useless. You should realize that it is in your own interest that others than yourself enjoy the game.

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 Come on, if you want to play as trader then spend time doing some actual trading. Don't require the game to do all work for you while you take a nap or watch a movie.

I put in the time to gather resources, which does require plenty of sailing, exploring, and trading in order to be successful. Because I put in the required time, I am not here demanding that changes be made to accomodate me and reverse my heartbreaking stories of lost contracts.

If hoarding all of the resources is so easy, why are you complaining about how difficult it is for you to acquire resources? This entire line of reasoning reeks of sore-loserness; you haven't been a successful trader, so you would rather change the rules than change your strategy.

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Spare us the theory. I think we are all aware of how economy works irl. This is, however, a game and we play it to have fun. Those of us who chose to explore other aspects of the game than trading during the first few days after release, simply don't have the funds to compete, and now it is too late to make those easy quick big bucks. I'm sure this is great fun for you, but for the majority it's not. There is a limit to how much "reality" you want to put into a game, because when the reality factor reaches 100%, we might just as well go to our real jobs and then your in game gold will be useless. You should realize that it is in your own interest that others than yourself enjoy the game.

I don't believe that you have a clear understanding of free market economics. I regret to hear that you are not having fun playing this game; maybe Elite Dangerous is more your cup of tea. In that game, you can wander all over the galaxy trading with mindless bots until your eyes bleed.

Don't make the mistake of believing that you represent a "majority" of players. Complainers are always louder than content players.

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Spare us the theory. I think we are all aware of how economy works irl. This is, however, a game and we play it to have fun. Those of us who chose to explore other aspects of the game than trading during the first few days after release, simply don't have the funds to compete, and now it is too late to make those easy quick big bucks. I'm sure this is great fun for you, but for the majority it's not. There is a limit to how much "reality" you want to put into a game, because when the reality factor reaches 100%, we might just as well go to our real jobs and then your in game gold will be useless. You should realize that it is in your own interest that others than yourself enjoy the game.

 

Doc is right on the money. His points about the the economy are well given and well taken. It is the attitude's like the one you have put on display that will soon leave us with nothing but a shell of game to play.

 

The true meaning to your post is that you feel you should be put on a level playing field with those traders who have spent the time and effort to position themselves where they are today. You can't compete because you haven't tried and rather than do so it's easier to come to the forums and complain. Why should you be able to compete with someone who has spent the time and effort to become successful? What other aspects of the game did you choose to explore? Did you perhaps choose to level up and go after XP? I have spent my time trading and thus am still sailing in a snow. I can't compete in a deep water battle with those who chose to spend their time leveling. Perhaps I should come to forum and whine that I don't have the XP for a big ship. I guess because I spent my time doing something else and getting ahead in another area I should demand that the devs catch me up in the areas I have fallen behind.

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First of all, I do know how market economics work. That is the whole point. I do not want the game to work like the real world does. Your reasoning is flawed, and I will try to explain why.

 

Imagine, if you will, that all the poor in the world had the choice to just leave and switch to a different dimension where their lives would be better. Businesses would lose their customers and go bust. The reason it works, is that people do not have that choice. They have to, in the vast majority of cases, accept their fate. In our dimension, which we call Naval Action, however, we do have that option. If people don't like it here, they will move to a different game, and your business, your resources and your gold will quickly become worthless. I'm sure you can see the difference, and if you can, you must realize that it is in your own interest that others feel content with how the game works.

 

Your example with XP is also flawed, because there is an unlimited amount of potential XP in the game. Me being higher level than you in no way prevents you from catching up. That is not how the economy works, though. Your lead is just going to get bigger and bigger because you have the buying power to keep me out of business.

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First of all, I do know how market economics work. That is the whole point. I do not want the game to work like the real world does. Your reasoning is flawed, and I will try to explain why.

 

Imagine, if you will, that all the poor in the world had the choice to just leave and switch to a different dimension where their lives would be better. Businesses would lose their customers and go bust. The reason it works, is that people do not have that choice. They have to, in the vast majority of cases, accept their fate. In our dimension, which we call Naval Action, however, we do have that option. If people don't like it here, they will move to a different game, and your business, your resources and your gold will quickly become worthless. I'm sure you can see the difference, and if you can, you must realize that it is in your own interest that others feel content with how the game works.

 

Your example with XP is also flawed, because there is an unlimited amount of potential XP in the game. Me being higher level than you in no way prevents you from catching up. That is not how the economy works, though. Your lead is just going to get bigger and bigger because you have the buying power to keep me out of business.

You seem to want to lecture me about the about the importance of people staying interested in the game and not leaving to go play a different game. I suppose you don't realize however that what I am arguing for is in favor of greater longevity and play-ability within the game. You want the game to be dumbed-down and easier and yet advocate that doing so will some how make people want to stick around longer. I for one could not disagree more. You also fail to grasp the entire purpose of the game. If resources are to be plentiful and be had anywhere at anytime then what is the point in crafting, having an economy, or having the ability to take more ports? What incentive is there for a Nation to go out and take more ports if they have everything they will ever need right next to their capital? If you would rather just be able to buy ships and fight with them whenever you want perhaps you should give World of Warships a try.

 

You are illogical in your dispute of my example of XP. You say that XP is unlimited and that I can always catch up. You do realize that money is also "unlimited" by your own sense of the word, don't you? I can do missions all day long and make unlimited amounts of money just the same as you can do missions all day long and make unlimited amounts of XP.

Edited by Long Ben
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You haven't the faintest idea what I want with the game, as I have only voiced what I don't want with it. Do not try to patronize me, it will only make you look bad. I don't see how you can disagree with things I have never said.

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What about us who play solo most of the time? Already strugling to get exp at missions since it's hard to those alone and after this update I'm not able to join someone else higher BR mission. I know it's a multiplayer game, but not everyone can get in groups all the time

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What about us who play solo most of the time? Already strugling to get exp at missions since it's hard to those alone and after this update I'm not able to join someone else higher BR mission. I know it's a multiplayer game, but not everyone can get in groups all the time

 

Missions for your rank, or one rank below you, should nearly always be soloable if you're in a ship that is correct for your rank.  If you want to work together with someone, you'll need to ask for help in Nation chat and see if someone doesn't mind you joining their missions.

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This game was never marketed as Virtual marketplace Economy 101. it was designed and marketed as Naval Combat Game. The emphasis on combat, not cartoony avatars, or Port Royal Trader. The economics  trading is cool i think but I would hate to see that community try and hijack this game imply that's a big selling pint of it's draw because it's not. I agree with Tarkin, the way it's setup now creates a monopoly where (especially newish) or even established players will simply not be able to bid for any goods via the contract system when enough fortune is built up. Something needs to change as far as amount limitations or number of contracts per day.

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Missions for your rank, or one rank below you, should nearly always be soloable if you're in a ship that is correct for your rank.  If you want to work together with someone, you'll need to ask for help in Nation chat and see if someone doesn't mind you joining their missions.

 

Well the OS was abuzz before and he didn't have to beg. A toggle would solve this. Why punish socialization when the player chooses who enters his mission?

Edited by Kilo

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What about us who play solo most of the time? Already strugling to get exp at missions since it's hard to those alone and after this update I'm not able to join someone else higher BR mission. I know it's a multiplayer game, but not everyone can get in groups all the time

 +1

I'm a new player spending an hour or two when I can.

I've just spent half hour sailing around with no targets in sight, but lots of crossed swords everywhere I can't join.

While it may not be important to the experienced players here, who are deep into trading and the economy, this is going to kill newbies dead.

Without them coming in, there will be no game in the long run.

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This game was never marketed as Virtual marketplace Economy 101. it was designed and marketed as Naval Combat Game. The emphasis on combat, not cartoony avatars, or Port Royal Trader. The economics  trading is cool i think but I would hate to see that community try and hijack this game imply that's a big selling pint of it's draw because it's not. I agree with Tarkin, the way it's setup now creates a monopoly where (especially newish) or even established players will simply not be able to bid for any goods via the contract system when enough fortune is built up. Something needs to change as far as amount limitations or number of contracts per day.

 

I can agree that the economy is not the selling point of the game... but having an open world is... and an open world where there`s nothing to fight for is pointless.. I`ve been here so long that I know all about it. We had arena fight for quite a while, sure it was fun, but most people lost interest once they levelled up.. Then we had an empty open world... It was great, but again after a while people lost interest because they`re was nothing to fight for... Now they added ressources and crafting and this is when thing really gelled together... When you realise that you need to have teamate or at least "friends" to work with because you`re are not gonna be able to do it all alone. And now each fight has values and a lost port mean something... But we need economy to work, Does the economy work right now, in a sense yes, it`s offer and demand... Does it have issues yes, just like real life. First time the ressources appear the main problem was scarcity, then it was cargo space and the actual transport of them (it use to be a lot less) then people got sick of carrying the stuff around, they added deliveries, then people complained that trading was too easy... This is just an example of how this is ever changing...

 

The situation we have now is the result of everyone power levelling the crafters to go along with the power levelling... Eventually things will settle down a bit..

 

-Eventually i believe some of the production will be player controlled

-Limits on contract would probably help control some of the hoarding

-Reduce ship hold capacity back a bit... Especially if bigger trader are coming in.

-I also wish there was away to see nearby contract. I`ve posted several contract to buy in a port for ressources not produce there, they are almost never filled, even at higher price, Currently i suspect most of the people doing the trading are aslo the crafter, very few actual trader....

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