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Patch 9.63 - Iron crisis

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Personally, I am not pleased by these changes. Gathering these resources in sufficient quantites was a challenge, but not impossible. I appreciate the challenge to overcome resource scarcity, and I enjoyed my time as a trader dealing in valued resources.

Resource scarcity limits the number and quality of ships produced by crafters, which in turn adds value to desirable and rare ships. This update has unfairly affected traders and crafters who have put in the time to gather resources and produce ships when those tasks were still a challenge. I believe that exceptional ships will not be exceptional any longer, now that virtually everyone can produce an endless supply of gold ships for minimal cost.

Complaints are always the loudest from those who loathe a challenge, and those of us who were pleased with the former economic model did not come here to express our satisfaction. I'm beginning to notice a pattern where game developers are routinely influenced by popular complaints in their forums, which does not necessarily lead to optimal gameplay.

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What's new:

  • Missions can only be joined by your group members and enemies of your nation. We will continue to update Rules of engagements going forward affecting timers, reinforcements and battle pull.

 

If this is so can you PLEASE stop them showing up on the map as a Battle - I'm sick or sailing around looking for battles/ships only you find I can't join when I get there!!!!!.

 

If there is a battle I can't join then I don't care about it - please don't show me it !!!!!!

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The lack of resources is because you have handful of greedy players who are hoarding the items to make profits...

Grimbeard, any suggestion you have just proposed would ruin gameplay. What is the point of having a dynamic economy if resources are always plentiful and prices are always low?

As the economy shifts into its natural state, there will be short periods of uncomfortable price gouging and artificial scarcity - but, with patience, it will level out and prices will become palatable again.

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"Bots cannot disengage from boarding"

THANK YOU!!!!

The XP updates and resource production updates look great too. This patch looks great.

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Personally, I am not pleased by these changes. Gathering these resources in sufficient quantites was a challenge, but not impossible. I appreciate the challenge to overcome resource scarcity, and I enjoyed my time as a trader dealing in valued resources.

Resource scarcity limits the number and quality of ships produced by crafters, which in turn adds value to desirable and rare ships. This update has unfairly affected traders and crafters who have put in the time to gather resources and produce ships when those tasks were still a challenge. I believe that exceptional ships will not be exceptional any longer, now that virtually everyone can produce an endless supply of gold ships for minimal cost.

You know the Iron has also doubled in price right? Also, Gold hasn't been changed, so the rarity of ships made will not be effected by this. 

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"Kill will be granted only if enemy ship is sufficiently damaged to sink her. "

 

What's this actually mean? is this a nerf to helping players with missions?

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If this is so can you PLEASE stop them showing up on the map as a Battle - I'm sick or sailing around looking for battles/ships only you find I can't join when I get there!!!!!.

 

If there is a battle I can't join then I don't care about it - please don't show me it !!!!!!

 

I'd like to see the battle marker disappear the moment a battle closes myself.

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very nice cant withstand the 10x disengage when i was boarding ships..

 

 

 

about mission did you touch them ? on my commodore mission 3rd rate vanished i got last 5 as 2x connie, or i just got bad randoms? before was like 50-50%

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Doc, I never really had an issue before. However the current state of diplomacy and economics is creating a separation that wIll be too great as time goes on and without certain built in limitations. We can only trade with our own nations for the most part unless a trader floods a free port with resources. I managed to grind up to lvl 23 crafting in short time but I don't see this being possible for new players to do anytime soon with the way the monopoly is going. As time goes on, even with the increase in resource production it's done nothing but give those who have already raped their country more power to keep doing so. The players that rushed trading from the start have created such buying power that they can have unlimited amounts of buying power and complete control over pricing. You can't hit any port right now and not pay less than 75+ for iron and the default port produced slot is depleted almost instantly. The way the contract system is set up right now, 1 player can hop port to port to port and buy all the important resources outright then place them at an almost Unbuyable price for low-mid tier players. Limiting a players capacity will still make it profitable for the player but fair for all as other options to buy will come up more frequently. Also, what sense does it make that I have an outpost in one place but can go to a nation controlled town and buy 5000 pieces of iron and place it on contract as a "hold" because I can't carry all of it back in one trip to my Main outpost. It's just a simple numbers game and the gap will increase for those who keep controlling the market. Maybe when they implement production specific building for ports it will change. As for now we will see how these changes play out.

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"Kill will be granted only if enemy ship is sufficiently damaged to sink her. "

 

What's this actually mean? is this a nerf to helping players with missions?

 

I'm pretty sure that means no last second kill stealing.

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What is the timer on missions for enemy players?  Sounds like some are saying enemy players are ganking mission runners well after the 5 mins...

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Doc, I never really had an issue before. However the current state of diplomacy and economics is creating a separation that wIll be too great as time goes on and without certain built in limitations. We can only trade with our own nations for the most part unless a trader floods a free port with resources. I managed to grind up to lvl 23 crafting in short time but I don't see this being possible for new players to do anytime soon with the way the monopoly is going. As time goes on, even with the increase in resource production it's done nothing but give those who have already raped their country more power to keep doing so. The players that rushed trading from the start have created such buying power that they can have unlimited amounts of buying power and complete control over pricing. You can't hit any port right now and not pay less than 75+ for iron and the default port produced slot is depleted almost instantly. The way the contract system is set up right now, 1 player can hop port to port to port and buy all the important resources outright then place them at an almost Unbuyable price for low-mid tier players. Limiting a players capacity will still make it profitable for the player but fair for all as other options to buy will come up more frequently. Also, what sense does it make that I have an outpost in one place but can go to a nation controlled town and buy 5000 pieces of iron and place it on contract as a "hold" because I can't carry all of it back in one trip to my Main outpost. It's just a simple numbers game and the gap will increase for those who keep controlling the market. Maybe when they implement production specific building for ports it will change. As for now we will see how these changes play out.

Thats the essence of a player driven economy, if player's couldn't change the prices of things then they would always be bland, boring and the same. Maybe iron will reach 500, then attacking trade ships will become super profitable, or the people who keep close eyes on iron producing ports can make huge profits if they can snag it in time, making them crowded places and prime spots for pirating on the way to other ports.

In other words, this is kinda the whole point of this game.

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Personally, I am not pleased by these changes. Gathering these resources in sufficient quantites was a challenge, but not impossible. I appreciate the challenge to overcome resource scarcity, and I enjoyed my time as a trader dealing in valued resources.

Resource scarcity limits the number and quality of ships produced by crafters, which in turn adds value to desirable and rare ships. This update has unfairly affected traders and crafters who have put in the time to gather resources and produce ships when those tasks were still a challenge. I believe that exceptional ships will not be exceptional any longer, now that virtually everyone can produce an endless supply of gold ships for minimal cost.

 

problem is that finding resources had nothing to do with any challenge. And still doesn't, thanks to contracts, the problem still stands ... it will just hit other resources harder now that iron will be a more common (and things like carriages cost less to craft).

 

Even before the change iron was possible to find ... simply because of the ammount produced in various ports. For fir logs or oak logs the problem was much bigger and still is (these will now become the limiting resources for ship crafting). Even before the patch iron was produced in 1-3k quantities in ports ... unlike other resources that barely get into hundreds. Iron was annoying to find ... oak and fir was (and still is) in some areas impossible to find.

 

If port produces let's say 250 oak logs per realtime day (so far I have seen production between 150 - 350) placing contract for 1k oak logs will buyout all production for next four days. And that is just one player placing contract. Yes, you can beat the contract price, but that just means that the contracts stack on top of each other and the complete production of that harbor will be blocked for weeks. And that is a big problem, because there aren't that many harbors producing these particular resources. There are how many ports on the entire map ... 250, maybe 300? You can't use ports owned by other nations, that leaves you with neutral ports, free towns and ports belonging to your nation ... from the ports that are accessible to you maybe 1/3 produce the resource you need in volume of a few hundred per day ... and that production can be blocked for weeks by very small number of contracts. This system as it is is unbelievably broken.

 

But I agree that just increasing production isn't solution. The whole system needs serious rework or limiting of contracts. Set maximum contract cap a lot lower. Or limit contracts only to ports where you have outpost. Because right now you can sail into any port, place contract there in volume that would take weeks to produce the number there, if you manage to buy that ammount you can have it stockpiled in the port indeffinitely despite not having outpost (and thus storage space) there and you can repeat this in all ports you manage to get into (accessible to you, neutral or your own nation). With this system and the limited number of ports producing certain resources, very small number of players can corner entire market by buying out entire production, or at the very least hike prices ridiculously high.

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Wasn't it announced to have a new system wherein players would get XP upon completing someone else's admiralty order?

So, there isn't actually going to be group XP, since "increased assist xp + increased pvp rewards" is not "=group xp" but instead is "=xp for everyone that joins your battle".

 

Can we get some clarification there, please?

Great patch anyway, looking forward to playing it.

 

Only group members can join your mission.

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After trying out the patch i want to thank you for the XP changes. Regardless of if one experiences the XP as too fast or too slow, the relation between earnable XP in solo grind and in a group is certainly now the right one.

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problem is that finding resources had nothing to do with any challenge. And still doesn't, thanks to contracts, the problem still stands ...

If port produces let's say 250 oak logs per realtime day (so far I have seen production between 150 - 350) placing contract for 1k oak logs will buyout all production for next four days. And that is just one player placing contract. Yes, you can beat the contract price, but that just means that the contracts stack on top of each other and the complete production of that harbor will be blocked for weeks. And that is a big problem, because there aren't that many harbors producing these particular resources. There are how many ports on the entire map ... 250, maybe 300? You can't use ports owned by other nations, that leaves you with neutral ports, free towns and ports belonging to your nation ... from the ports that are accessible to you maybe 1/3 produce the resource you need in volume of a few hundred per day ... and that production can be blocked for weeks by very small number of contracts. This system as it is is unbelievably broken.

Production is never "blocked". In fact, production is unaffected by contracts. If a port produces 250 oak logs, it doesn't matter if there are no contracts or one thousand contracts - it will produce 250 oak logs.

It appears that you expect to be able to sail into any port, at any time, and see a plentiful stock of all goods for sale. A game with scarce resources is not "unbelievably broken"; a game with scarce resources is "fun". Some of us are drawn to a game of free market competition, and others would rather eliminate a player driven economy in favor of trading with AI.

If I were not a particularly skilled negotiator, I might also be inclined to advocate instead of play the game. I'm sorry if I outbid your contracts. If it helps, I had planned to allow you buy your next ship on a payment plan with special new introductory interest rates.

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Doc, I never really had an issue before. However the current state of diplomacy and economics is creating a separation that wIll be too great as time goes on and without certain built in limitations. We can only trade with our own nations for the most part unless a trader floods a free port with resources. I managed to grind up to lvl 23 crafting in short time but I don't see this being possible for new players to do anytime soon with the way the monopoly is going. As time goes on, even with the increase in resource production it's done nothing but give those who have already raped their country more power to keep doing so. The players that rushed trading from the start have created such buying power that they can have unlimited amounts of buying power and complete control over pricing. You can't hit any port right now and not pay less than 75+ for iron and the default port produced slot is depleted almost instantly. The way the contract system is set up right now, 1 player can hop port to port to port and buy all the important resources outright then place them at an almost Unbuyable price for low-mid tier players. Limiting a players capacity will still make it profitable for the player but fair for all as other options to buy will come up more frequently. Also, what sense does it make that I have an outpost in one place but can go to a nation controlled town and buy 5000 pieces of iron and place it on contract as a "hold" because I can't carry all of it back in one trip to my Main outpost. It's just a simple numbers game and the gap will increase for those who keep controlling the market. Maybe when they implement production specific building for ports it will change. As for now we will see how these changes play out.

 

 

Basic economics here proves you wrong. Price ceiling, if placed above current market price, do not effect supply and demand. However, if the market price needs to rise, or for simpler if the price to sell a product goes up because of increase of cost in making said product, the new price may be higher than the ceiing. Now you have a shortage of supply. Producers or people selling the good will not want to sell at $10 when the price dictated by the market should be $15 when taking into account their loss of time, assets and other things. Those who charge outrageous prices can be out competed. In one of two ways. A player with a stock of a resource notices an individual selling that resource for an absurd amount, so he takes advantage and undercuts him. Pricing that same good lower, but still able to make money. This process repeats until prices reach an equilibrium between demand and supply. Or a player who is disgruntled about the price at Port A, decides to sail the 30 minutes to Port B where he has a safe assumption that goods are there and are being sold at a lower price by the "Server" than the high priced player. "The Invisible Hand" fixes the issue.

 

When you "Force" people's freedom and choice, as you want with putting a max on how much a player can hold in reserve, you eliminate any possibility of the market working as it should.

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Production is never "blocked". In fact, production is unaffected by contracts. If a port produces 250 oak logs, it doesn't matter if there are no contracts or one thousand contracts - it will produce 250 oak logs.

It appears that you expect to be able to sail into any port, at any time, and see a plentiful stock of all goods for sale. A game with scarce resources is not "unbelievably broken"; a game with scarce resources is "fun". Some of us are drawn to a game of free market competition, and others would rather eliminate a player driven economy in favor of trading with AI.

If I were not a particularly skilled negotiator, I might also be inclined to advocate instead of play the game. I'm sorry if I outbid your contracts. If it helps, I had planned to allow you buy your next ship on a payment plan with special new introductory interest rates.

The point is that especially with smaller nations, it's very easy for a very small group of players to buy-contract the ENTIRE oak production in the region available to that nation. Oak already is from my experience a rather rare type of wood, so how many ports are available to Sweden with oak? More than 5? If the numbers they produce are this small, assuming 360, that's a mere 1800 oak you need to buy per day you have to buy out. That's just 270k if you pay 150per, and now you have a monopoly on supply. That's already an outrageous price, but with a monopoly you can dictate  the price it's then resold at.

 

You want to advocate talking? To whom? We have no idea who holds these contracts.

 

The only thing you can do right now is intercept contraband traders leaving oak ports and hope to get lucky on their cargo.  And it's fairly weird that I think "jackpot" when I read 60 oak logs, but go meh when it's 100 gold ore.

Edited by Quineloe
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Only group members can join your mission.

This is a killer for solo players. This means you have every time to pray pleople to join your group or let you join to their group.

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The point is that especially with smaller nations, it's very easy for a very small group of players to buy-contract the ENTIRE oak production in the region available to that nation. Oak already is from my experience a rather rare type of wood, so how many ports are available to Sweden with oak? More than 5? If the numbers they produce are this small, assuming 360, that's a mere 1800 oak you need to buy per day you have to buy out. That's just 270k if you pay 150per, and now you have a monopoly on supply. That's already an outrageous price, but with a monopoly you can dictate  the price it's then resold at.

This is probably the fifth time I've read on this forum that a mysterious "small group" of players are conspiring to restrict access to specific resources, and that you are powerless against those evil traders with an imaginary monopoly. I believe I will dispel this myth with a video tutorial that provides step-by-step instructions on how to properly outbid the competition.

 

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