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Salzi

Needed: Major changes to openworld, combat/trade, port battle times mechanics. (PvP based)

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Heyoi!    o/

I am here to talk about a few things, currently the PvP in the game is stale and you can not do anything without being penalised.

 

Reinforcement zones in open world making limitations to PvP raiding of Nation coastlines and reducing player interaction.

 

As a pirate I can not even go anywhere to attack traders due to the fact they can trade at 100% saftey in their waters and this is not due to player presence... here is a little story of how a trader screwed up and I was the one unable to punish his mistake because of the open worlds reinforcem system being so broken. 

 

I catch a spanish lynx on the coastline near Peurto de Nipe, I am pushing him along the coast and due to the wind he is stuck at the coastline I caught him and pushed him into a trap and he ends up right next to the pirates port, I engage as he litrally has nowhere to go and I am like oh yeah I caught this guy off guard! well no seems I was wrong because even then he can call reinforcments which was a cerb spawns next to him... I was in a niagra.... this is a problem no matter where I go because you litrally CANT attack anyone without a ton of NPCs poping right next to them and the balance is always against you so you cant PvP because the game is litrally stopping you.  

This is one of many attacks on traders I have done and the only time you can catch them is when they have no idea how to use the reinforcments button. 

 

But this is how it should be, there is a large enough player base now that if you are trading in your waters you should say in your nation chat there are pirates at X come help! Or get an escort by fiends because currently there is no risk. It adds interaction to PvP and reduces the limiations of PvP and risk. You never see any other MMO have a reinforcment just imagine you are playing World of warcraft and you get attacked and you can summon 10 level 100 npcs... would defeat the point of PvP.

 And note this doesnt just effect Pirates but nation players also.

 

The solution should be simple, create the reinforment zones around the capitals to stop bloackades on them, take them away form other towns are reudce the ring sizes which by the way are smaller than the reinforce applicable area in game is anyway by 2/3s - 3/4s to make it a more tighter zone around that port and not 43297 miles out to sea. Or in my opinion remove whem from everything other than the main capitals/regional capitals to open up player interaction and enables pirates o be pirates and nations to raid the trade routes of other nations. because its just boring not being able to fight them without a larger ships than you joining because the trader pressed a button.

 

Delivery system in free towns, enables zero risk trading cross long distances for trader and crafters.

 

Onto my next note of the delivery system, quite a simple one really it is too easy to trade long distances using this, they need to make it so that it is a physical trade NPC ship that is transporting the goods from A port to B port, now I know this is only in freetowns but freetowns are everywhere and are a crafters heaven because of the 0 risk of being able to get resources from far away and able to transport them freely for no risk. 

 

Trading back in those times was dangerous for many reasons and so it should be in this game and I know I am hitting on trade a lot but honestly this game needs to improve on the trade system to improve the overall gameplay. So things liek trade companies can form, they exist now but again have little to no risk and the only risks I see is the pirate nation trade ships being able to be attacked by other pirates but for the nation traders there is abserloutly no risk if they are in their own waters and can trade freely wihtout eve having to be like "But what is there are pirates around that could attack me" they are like "I have the reainforcement button so doesnt matter who are how many they cant touch me. " so yeah. More risk for more reward I say, maybe make the ports increase some goods so that players can compensate for losing  some. 

Solution: Make NPCs move resources in deliveries or remove the system because it is Zero risk for a low price of gold because you can move 9999 units and 4 lots of them for a sum price and no risk. This makes tradeships and traing more imporant in the game as a whole and means moving goods has a risk-reward factor to them.

 

Port battle time window changes, to reduce time zone tention between EU, Asia and US players.

 

To the port battle! oh yeah here I come to this one, current state o the game in PvP EU One is that the US nation has a time set so that litrally the spanish or pirates can't attack them due to it ebing 4am to 6am which the palyerbase for the EU server is not online, I am not saying this is ultermantly unfair however my solution to the time should be that you have to pick TWO times in 12 hours periods of a day that they can be attacked. My example is as followed - 00:00-10:00 you can set a one hour window due to the maintenance time restrictions during 10:00-12:00 and between 12:00 till 00:00.

As I myself are lord protector of a port, I would say I could put a time of 17:00-18:00 for one timer and 00:00-01:00 as another this enables people of differant time zones to be on and attack thus resolving the issue of times zones, ports and nations, and even if there was a say 3 hour limit to stop me putting on 23:00-00:00 and 00:00-01:00 which is a good idea.

 

_________________ That is all for now ________________________

 

There will be haters and carebears, I am on a PvP server and the things I am refering to are for the PvP servers only, if you disagree with the trade and combat mechanics and are on a PvP server then I suggest you swap the PvE ones as PvE limitations should not have a palce in a PvP server so please be constructive in your arguments.

And any spelling errors ect, sorry. ^^'

 

Thank you for reading if you got this far :3

 

From Keeper of the Oats Salzi - Lord of Frozen cay and Captain of Elsa's Warrior. 
Edited by Salzi
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I like everything except the port battles.

I just see it switching to favor attackers instead of now favoring the defender time wise. Attacker will always pick his time.

I'd rather see a multi stage port battles where some events happen during each major timezone and the cumulative results decide who win and who loses.

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This all sounds good.

 

I would like to suggest these additions -

 

Port Battles -

 

Once a Conquest Flag is purchased, you are unable to teleport to that port, anyone inside of it is ejected until the battle is resolved.

Port Battles should be more expensive.

 

Battles -

When a team mate engages in a battle, you should have the OPTION to join them or not. Not simply get pulled in.

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I like how everyone points to the times we have set, but the Rubli pirates set times that very few people can fight, even in their own timezone.  Look what happened last round.  US captured a ton of ports before the time windows were added.  We couldnt set time windows on those ports.  Everyone took our ports and put time windows not good for the US.  Now that we are able to set time windows, you are crying, because you can't take our ports, yet, you still put bad time windows on your own ports.  So, unless you put time windows on your ports favorable to us, stop crying.  This goes for the Spanish and the Pirates and eventually I assume the British when they decide to come attack us.  If you are going to complain about our timers, then set your timers to our timezone (4-6 server time).  Otherwise, we can just do away with timers, and you will take our ports in your timezone, and we will take them back plus your ports in our time zone and it will get really old after the first week.   Port battles shouldnt be frequent anyway.

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As far as I could understand it, removing player fleets (NPCs) from rank 4 up was done in order to improve PvP. Well, reinforcements are even worse in that regard. Like Salzi said, make reinforcements available around national capitals only in order to make starting areas safe for new players ; remove them everywhere else.

 

Fully agree with the deliveries issue, and posted the very same suggestion a while ago: actually spawn the NPCs with the goods in cargo (and add an option, incurring a higher cost, to spawn an NPC escort with the trader).

 

Also agree that PB timers are very counterproductive at the moment. There's no ideal solution, unfortunately, but I like Salzi's idea of having to pick 2 windows, at least 8 hours apart.

In general though - and this might not be a popular suggestion - I liked PotBS's contention system better, as it forced actual player presence around a target port in order to put that port into contention, thus creating a lot of PvP opportunities.

 

As it is now, there's practically no PvP outside of Port Battles (or in the periphery of PBs just before or after they take place). That's a bit sad. I hope it'll get better as the grinding slows down a bit, but some mechanics definitely need to be tuned to help promote PvP (esp. on a so-called PvP server).


I like how everyone points to the times we have set, but the Rubli pirates set times that very few people can fight, even in their own timezone.  Look what happened last round.  US captured a ton of ports before the time windows were added.  We couldnt set time windows on those ports.  Everyone took our ports and put time windows not good for the US.  Now that we are able to set time windows, you are crying, because you can't take our ports, yet, you still put bad time windows on your own ports.  So, unless you put time windows on your ports favorable to us, stop crying.  This goes for the Spanish and the Pirates and eventually I assume the British when they decide to come attack us.

 

So you basically agree with the suggested idea, is what you're saying? Good to know!

Edited by Jexter

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I like how everyone points to the times we have set, but the Rubli pirates set times that very few people can fight, even in their own timezone.  Look what happened last round.  US captured a ton of ports before the time windows were added.  We couldnt set time windows on those ports.  Everyone took our ports and put time windows not good for the US.  Now that we are able to set time windows, you are crying, because you can't take our ports, yet, you still put bad time windows on your own ports.  So, unless you put time windows on your ports favorable to us, stop crying.  This goes for the Spanish and the Pirates and eventually I assume the British when they decide to come attack us.

 

Personally I think that on the EU server all port battles should have to be set in the EU timezone. If you want to play in the US timezone and set port battles in there, then there is a US server for that.

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Personally I think that on the EU server all port battles should have to be set in the EU timezone. If you want to play in the US timezone and set port battles in there, then there is a US server for that.

They are set in the EU timezone for 4am to 6am.

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They are set in the EU timezone for 4am to 6am.

 

Sorry let me rephrase - EU prime time. 

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(copy of a post I put up earlier which might be useful here)

 

 

I think we can all agree having the timers is much better than having nothing at all, moving forward I can see 3 options:

 

1) Keep the timers as they are - Over the next few weeks we're going to see most of the neutral and 'undefended ports taken and moved to their nations times. This is going to be fine on the battle lines between euro nations such as danes/swedes or french/dutch but I can see lines between US/Spain and US/pirates turning into stalemates with very limited attacks (as we've already seen on the US/pirate line).

 

 

2) Random timers - although getting rid of the stalemate this would probably just lead to lots of undefended battles with people just waiting for quiet times of other nations.

 

 

3) Creeping timers - One idea is to give each ports timer a percentage chance (10-25%?) to move a small amount one way or another at downtime. For example a timer set at 0400-0600 may move to 0600-0800 or 0200-0400. So if 20 ports were all set to 0400 and no nations could capture them -  after two or three weeks they may be spread out between 20:00 and 10:00 allowing other nations the chance to capture them, without the defending nation being overrun all at once. Also this would ensure there are more battles set for the 'border' time between US and EU primetimes.

 

This could be added with any future update to port defenses etc so if a nation knew a timer was starting to move away from their chosen time they could build up the defenses in that port. Once a port is taken/retaken is can be moved to that nation's choice and the creep starts again.

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Personally I think that on the EU server all port battles should have to be set in the EU timezone. If you want to play in the US timezone and set port battles in there, then there is a US server for that.

 

Ya, and that is a dumb idea.  You are basically telling us to go to another server.  How about, you forget about all your progress and go to another server if you don't like it instead of essentially telling us that?

 

So you basically agree with the suggested idea, is what you're saying? Good to know!

 

No, I do not.  Nice try though.

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Ya, and that is a dumb idea.  You are basically telling us to go to another server.  How about, you forget about all your progress and go to another server if you don't like it instead of essentially telling us that?

 

 

 

 

No, I do not.  Nice try though.

 

 

Sorry but I am not sure why you are being so hostile. There is not need for insults. I am simply stating my opinion and you are welcome to disagree with that however your passive aggressive posts in response to anything which does not suit your own play style and opinion is starting to become irksome. 

 

I have not stated at all that you should be forced to lose all of your progression however you have taken the choice to play on an EU server. Why then should the majority of the server be subject to your time zone in order to attack ports which you own? 

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I have not stated at all that you should be forced to lose all of your progression however you have taken the choice to play on an EU server. Why then should the majority of the server be subject to your time zone in order to attack ports which you own? 

 

Plis..

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I don't know maybe because they control the port. I know that's a novel idea but go with me on it.

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Sorry but I am not sure why you are being so hostile. There is not need for insults. I am simply stating my opinion and you are welcome to disagree with that however your passive aggressive posts in response to anything which does not suit your own play style and opinion is starting to become irksome. 

 

I have not stated at all that you should be forced to lose all of your progression however you have taken the choice to play on an EU server. Why then should the majority of the server be subject to your time zone in order to attack ports which you own? 

 

 

Let's see, I defend plenty of stuff that isn't my play style.  I defend many things, such as ganking play, solo play, group play, balanced pirate play, PVE play (and pve server) and plenty of stuff that isn't my playstyle.  However, your ideas are directly affecting our play and I will answer as I see fit to something that is very negative towards our clan and the US timezone on PVP1.  During US prime time over a thousand people are on.  YOU want to ruin the play of over 1000 players who won't ever be able to take part in port battles.  And it isn't just the US faction, but Brits, Danes, Pirates, Spanish, French, etc, etc.  You want to limit everyone not in the EU timezone.

 

And you have told us to go to another server, because otherwise we cant take part in port battles because they only take place during EU prime time.

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Interesting note on server progress (xp). I have the same name & character in both pvp 1 and pvp 2, and my xp (progress) carries over on both servers. That a bug?

The gold, inventory, and ships do not.

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Interesting note on server progress (xp). I have the same name & character in both pvp 1 and pvp 2, and my xp (progress) carries over on both servers. That a bug?

The gold, inventory, and ships do not.

 

That is how they designed it.  Xp transfers, items do not.

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I believe a system that EVE uses for Towers is essential for any game with Mixed timezones like this game.

 

Example.

 

Port Owner can set the level of stock piled provisions in port from 1 hour - 24 hours.

(This can be set once per 24 hours and can not be changed if a 'Blockade Flag' is active)

Stage 1

 

Attackers buy a 'Blockading Flag' They assault the port like you would normally do now by killing off the towers.

Defenders would need to stop the attacking force before the towers get destroyed or you loose stage one of the siege. The BR system would need to be balanced in the favor of the attackers or just scrap that system to avoid running away and increase the distance between towers to give the defense some chance.

 

The towers have fallen and the blockading siege was successful

 

The port enters 'Blockade Mode'. The port market is frozen but players can still dock and leave. (port owner faction only or have the port frozen to all so no one can dock)

While in 'Blockade Mode' the port consumes its stockpiled provisions once the provisions have been consumed the port enters Stage 2 'Under Siege'

 

Stage 2 'Under Siege'

 

The attacking force must purchase a siege flag and move it to a port that is 'Under Siege' within 1 hour or the port will no longer be attack able for 24 hours.

 

The Siege Starts after the flag has been placed.

The battle zone has only one tower a bigger and heavily armored tower (until we have real ports with forts)

(We assume that the defenders and attackers will both have fleets ready for this due to the 'Blockade Mode timer')

 

This battle will be about PVP using the rating system if no defense fleet arrives then the attackers will need to kill the single tower.

 

Any kills made outside of the Towers radius of fire will earn defenders extra kill points. (to force attackers to leave protection of the Towers guns)

Any defenders sunk inside the Towers radius of fire will give the attacking force extra kill points.

 

I5ItFRZ.png

Edited by Pantora
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I like this two-staged approach a lot, Pantora. There's a bit of speculation involved with possible "bluffing" on both sides, it's a smart idea and isn't biased toward any specific timezone.

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This is not EVE.  It says Pirate faction is the hardest to play when you select it. Dont like it choose another faction. In EVE every man and his dog is a pirate because its so easy. Never used to be that way back 2005 btw.

NPC fleets protect noobs from being constantly destroyed by older players who know what they are doing and where to find them. There are pplenty of places on the map that have no reinforcements, these will become more populated as the player base gets a bit more experienced. The game is only a couple of weeks old.

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This is not EVE.  It says Pirate faction is the hardest to play when you select it. Dont like it choose another faction. In EVE every man and his dog is a pirate because its so easy. Never used to be that way back 2005 btw.

NPC fleets protect noobs from being constantly destroyed by older players who know what they are doing and where to find them. There are pplenty of places on the map that have no reinforcements, these will become more populated as the player base gets a bit more experienced. The game is only a couple of weeks old.

 

Couple of years old I thought.

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about port timers...they are there to give the defenders the advantage

 

if a port has a attack window you cant be awake at then dont attack that port its that simple

 

 

EDIT: dont adapt the game to fitt you, adapt to fitt the game

Edited by drogoran
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/snip

 

 

So, basically same as EVE POS bashing?

Ok-ish, I guess, as long as the method of designating the "owner(s)" that can manage timer resource is fair and straightforward.

Heck, as long as there are no sov lasers...

 

*sov laser: "to capture the zone, capture all the points by staying in the circles for hours" mechanic. Translating it to NA would be "maintaining fleet presence" at the area for the set time. It's fun when there actually is a well-matched opposition. If not, well...

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The problem at the moment is that we are playing on a PVP server, but it is exceedingly difficult to engage in PVP, either as a raiding force due to reinforcements, or port battles due to mechanics.

 

On  the pirate Assault on Little Inguna we only just won, with 25 of us, vs 8-9 of the SLRN reserve force, we dealt with the towers in 20 minutes and spent 50 of the remaining 70 minutes chasing 8 people around to the corners of the map.  Had they brought in just 2 more people we likely would not have been able to deal with this in time.  This creates an issue in that even with overwhelming force (25 rats in the battle, along with a blockading force outside to intercept reinforcements) its still touch and go if a small amount defenders choose to turn up.  We could have split our force more efficiently, to be sure, but they could have also if they were focused on the win, instead of 4-5 of them ganging up on one of our guys and getting stuck in a "corner"

 

The extreme ease of defence is reflected in other nations chosen port timers top times when decent numbers cannot be mustered by attackers.  The Americans have set it to 4-6 am EU time, even the British have set a lot (so ive been told)  of their ports to similar times also to keep hold of their ports in the fear of the pirate menace.  This bottlenecks PVP port battles and with the lack of ability to raid supply lines, due to reinforcements is a detriment to peoples enjoyment of the PVP aspect of the game.  How can you PVP if as the aggressor , you are instantly at a disadvantage if you are attacking a non trading ship.  This stops people from attacking each other.  

 

While on the subject of disadvantages... Being able to TP to an outpost which is under attack , undock and instantly join battle is a enormous advantage to defenders, and will become more and more broken as defending groups get more organised, without the attackers being able to do much to counteract.  What is the point in splitting an attacking force into 2 groups and blockading a port if people can bypass this completely with just a little planning.

 

I understand the requirement to keep a safe-ish area for newer plays to PVE and mission in, this should be secular to around their capital and a few ports that provide required resource around it, not to all ports.  

 

This gives each nation a Core location where it is easier for them to defend and relax in should they be risk adverse, while allowing enterprising groups to battle over other areas of the map and make meaningful decisions on where to base, which areas of the map to lock down etc.

 

With regards to Drogorans comment on the timer giving the defenders the advantage, i wholeheartedly agree.  However the combined with the large area to allow defenders to kite, this prevents a less than overwhelming attack force from even having a chance to take a port.  This will result in only organised groups alarm clock op-ing attacks on ports and with the reduced enjoyment to the more casual players result in a diminishing community.  It will also polarise the factions into 2-3 big hubs as only they will have the member base to be able to do assaults on off hours.

 

I personally have no issue with odd American timers in AU -TZ, but at least give groups willing to wake up early/stay up late a chance to fight it.

 

To Fletch - i know pirates are the most difficult, not knowing who to trust and being wary of all is why i chose to be a pirate, however how do you suggest i take part in pirating if i cannot attack an armed ship without being instantly outgunned

 

 

I do not want to have an easy time and roflstomp nations because that is not fun, but i would like an interesting dynamic and allow groups to outsmart their enemies using deception/blockades to materially affect groups ability to hold onto ports

 

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You got him next to a pirate port and he was able to call Reinforcements?  Wow that is messed up!  Not a good mechanic at all.

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