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Players Dropping Like Flies Due to Grind

  

524 members have voted

  1. 1. Is the grind too much?

    • Yes
      204
    • No
      320


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I personally don't think the XP grind is too much. I think the way to optimally get XP at the moment is broken. Currently the best way to get XP is to stern rake with grape and kill all the crew as crew XP is soo high. This turns into XP farming fleets with people just ramming each other trying to Decrew full armored ships. I feel the Xp earned from actually damaging a ship should be raised. Right now it's just every squirrel trying to get a nut.

 

Sorry - but had to comment on this - after casual testing for close or over a year, and digging through the forum guides, and still in the grind as a casual player (only at 2nd LT sailing a Niagara with 122 crew - at 1200 of 2500 XP for next rank), this post showcases one of my most aggravating issues...

 

Had absolutely NO idea that there are different XP rewards for killing crew vice damaging the ship - only heard anecdotal comments that sail shredding yielded next to no XP. This post (above) was the first I'd actually heard or read of differences in XP results from focusing on killing crew.  I had previously thought that the reasons for graping down the crew was to reduce crew size for boarding (and expecting that the reduced crew would be slower turning/firing - like I am when undercrewed.)

 

I hear CONSTANT complaining from other new players about assundry gameplay elements and controls in the game ("How do I [ insert really simple game function question here ]"). And like many others, try as best I can to help when possible (within reason - Help Chat is a huge time sink in this game. I also want to play, not just spend endless hours answering beginner Qs - but I do what I can.)

 

What troubles me currently are two things

 

(1) Still no real help, tutorials, sea trials, how-tos in the game, or any word from anyone that we can share about when any of this will be added.... (this lament is partially about the "I've got a secret..." approach to educating new players on how to play), and basically letting them fumble around endlessly - which would seem somewhat shortsighted if we want a long, vibrant community of players with new blood, fresh meat, whatever you want to call new players.  

 

(2) The veiled "We figured it out the hard way, so all of you new players can too, or good riddance" tone of so many responses to (what seem to at least me) fundamental and thought provoking suggestions in forums posts that should be seriously considered with an eye to make most important the new player experience.

 

Having evacuated my digestive contents so annoyingly (sorry - got a bit 'rant-y' there....)  now I've got to go find a shovel and dig out of the forums by repetitive boolean searches to find out what the Crew XP deal is all about, Alfie.  Which NO PLAYER SHOULD HAVE TO DO. Seriously?!?  [END OF RANT - Regards all, Muttley, Lower US PvP Level Server]

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(1) Still no real help, tutorials, sea trials, how-tos in the game, or any word from anyone that we can share about when any of this will be added

 

Welp, I hate to drag out the old "Early Access" excuse but this is pretty common to Early Access games. They are so not-done that even the feature list isn't complete or settled. Nobody wants to spend too much time writing manuals for mechanics that could radically change tomorrow.

 

I do feel for the player who comes in here solo and has no idea what's going on but I also kind of frown on the idea of the developers putting in a tutorial when there is still so much core functionality that needs to go in.

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Unless your a solo player with limited playtime.

 

why on earth woud you play Solo?

 

wich server are you on? we are and adult Community with grown ups. Include Kids and pregant wife's. You woud feel home :-)

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Welp, I hate to drag out the old "Early Access" excuse but this is pretty common to Early Access games. They are so not-done that even the feature list isn't complete or settled. Nobody wants to spend too much time writing manuals for mechanics that could radically change tomorrow.

 

I do feel for the player who comes in here solo and has no idea what's going on but I also kind of frown on the idea of the developers putting in a tutorial when there is still so much core functionality that needs to go in.

 

Fair enough, I get it. But I still think the lack of mission variation zero in-game info is frustrating and hurting the new folks. Now off to find that crew XP tidbit. Regards all, Muttley

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There is no way the population is dropping if the server numbers are right but besides that im trying to figure out whats wrong with the " grind " ?

I just got the game last week and only can play a hour during thr week and more on weekend and im already a marauder and all i do is log in sink a ship or two while looking for pvp then log off.

Seems like level dont matter that much whem you are having fun it just keeps you in smaller ships but meh they are fun.

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Like I said before, they really need to add a bunch of hauler missions.  

 
Haul cargo shipment A from the port to another port.  Destination port would most likely need to be a Free Town.  Have longer hauler missions that go to towns that are further away in the region (higher risk/reward).  You could eventually add some smuggler missions for pirates - deliver some cargo to another nation's port under a false flag.
 

These missions should have higher gold/xp payout (more efficient) than doing normal search and destory admiralty missions.  It will get more ppl flowing in and out of new ports which will likely increase the pvp and make port blockades an actual thing of strategy.  Maybe if you get sunk along the way while doing these missions, the destination port take a cut out of your pay for damaged goods.

Edited by Booyaah
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Well...anyone who doesn't realise how gold and XP is earned isn't looking at the detailed breakdown in the post battle screen....that lays it out pretty clearly IMO.  Pat of the fun of this for me is finding out the who, what, why and how. Even though I am a "vet" and in a clan...there is still something new to find out every day and it may just be that you stumble upon a really good method of doing something for yourself.

 

This game needs to be challenging to have longevity....even as a "vet" and being in a clan the early grind is hard, but in making it hard, what it does do is force the new player to learn, ask questions and develop into the game.

 

Sounds to me like too many people are looking for an arcade experience and then to move on to another game after a month having been there, done that and bought the T-shirt.

 

Stick with it, provide your feedback to help the devs refine this into what it can be and enjoy the experience. Achieving something difficult is always a more satisfying experience than having it handed to you on a plate.

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Many players will move on and there is nothing wrong with it. Its a catch 22 problem and we believe it is hard to solve

 

With fast level up

They will leave once they played all the ships and captured an island for the clan they move on to other new experiences.

 

With slow level up 

They will leave because it takes time to rank up.

 

People who stay will stay for the ship combat and will continue playing because they are interested in large line battles or frigate engagements - based on experience this number is approximately 1000 players for every 10,000 accounts created (or 100 players online at any given moment). We plan to add more functionalities for players like this in the future too (solo and fleet tournaments). 

 

 

Progression could be slow now but its ok because it is easy to relax it. It would be worse if progression was too fast. It is much easier to give something to players than to take it back. 

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Many players will move on and there is nothing wrong with it. Its a catch 22 problem and we believe it is hard to solve

With fast level up

They will leave once they played all the ships and captured an island for the clan they move on to other new experiences.

With slow level up

They will leave because it takes time to rank up.

People who stay will stay for the ship combat and will continue playing because they are interested in large line battles or frigate engagements - based on experience this number is approximately 1000 players for every 10,000 accounts created (or 100 players online at any given moment). We plan to add more functionalities for players like this in the future too (solo and fleet tournaments).

Progression could be slow now but its ok because it is easy to relax it. It would be worse if progression was too fast. It is much easier to give something to players than to take it back.

^^ This all day long.

The mmorpg game i played the longest was the original eq . Almsot from the start i played it and it was pretty hard core back then with the " lose everything if you cant find your dead body " panicked corpse runs to the, you had to acually walk or take a ship anywhere you wanted to go unless you could find another player to teleport you near your destination.

There was much much more but it was all player to player interaction and everything took real time to do it. I quit that game when it became easy and and lame.

Ive played countless mmo's and most are just so easy its not fun or its just a clickfest or they are so hardcore i just dont have the time required to enjoy them.

Thats what makes this game ( even in alpha) so much fun. Its a little hardcore and sandbox open world but its not something i have to dedicate my life to in order to do well. There is a roll for all play styles in this game. The grind doesn't matter because level only means anything when it comes to ship size but the small ships are fun too and BECAUSE of the way this game is set up even those small ships are important.

There is plenty that can be added to this game to improve it amd i hope they do BUT changing the fundamental things about it should never be one of them. Each person should realize what they can do and fill that roll and enjoy what is there. If the only thing that draws you to a game is instant power ups and power leveling to get the best gear to raid then you are gonna either hve to find a new game or put in the time to get the big bad ships.

Just my 2 doubloons.

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Welp, I hate to drag out the old "Early Access" excuse but this is pretty common to Early Access games. They are so not-done that even the feature list isn't complete or settled. Nobody wants to spend too much time writing manuals for mechanics that could radically change tomorrow.

 

I do feel for the player who comes in here solo and has no idea what's going on but I also kind of frown on the idea of the developers putting in a tutorial when there is still so much core functionality that needs to go in.

 

I am a new player, but an experienced gamer. I have learned over the years that the internet (and youtube) is your friend when it comes to new games. I have never had a problem in a new game that a couple of nights of searching the internet could not solve. And the search does help me to decide if the game I am doing a search on is actually for me.

 

I have never really been into sailing games but mostly into flight sims. Has I have gotten older I have found that I prefer things to be slower now. And a sailing ship sim is a lot slower than a flight sim. Also I will have a real hard time crashing a sailing ship into the ocean if my little min pin decides now is the time to jump on my lap when I am in a middle of a turn to port.

 

The grind right now for me is not a real problem.

1. It is an early access game and I know how those work

2. I have no idea how to sailing ship or do any number of things on a sailing ship and the "grind" helps me learn.

3. I have played WoW, SWTOR, GuldWars 2 , and a lot of other MMO. And the grind comes with the territory.

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Slow???? i am half way to rear admiral, ppl need to learn how to play 

 

Ignorant comment.

 

It's not simply a matter of "learn how to play" but having time to play in the first place, not all of us can spend hours a day playing with cartoon ships for days on end due to family and work commitments.   I'd be lucky to fit in 2-3 hours a week and even then most sessions and battles are interrupted. 

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Because some players can't invest time in a game, we haven't the right to have some serious game where we can invest time and play seriously in order to have some rewards for our efforts ? The grind is a good thing, it make active players rewarded. 

 

The point is, the game need to give some opportunity to some casuals players with 5-4th ranks ships and make them usefull for their nation. Cause i don't think all captains must sail a 1th rank ship without a lot of work. But any body must be usefull and have some fun, and fun mustn't be just by sailing high rank ships.

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I am too one of the limited time players, playing on the PvE-Server (Interruptions, Session Length)

 

Now imagine a session time of 1 to 2 hours:

 

You have to focus what you want to do in that time:

- Shopping and crafting, depends, can take 1-2 hours

- Doing Missions, 3-4 Missions per hour

- Hunt Traders, 2-3 Traders per hour

 

All that done solo.

 

I have never grouped up so far in NA, but these are my concerns:

- Gathering time (find players, get from A to B, waiting)

- Time to find appropriate target

Many MMOs solved this by e.g.:

- letting you teleport to your groupleader

- no or minor time lost to find an appropriate "target" or content due to "teleport" or short travel times

 

Allways of concern are, but not limited to NA:

- Battletime

- Interruptions

 

A lot of time in NA is simple "wasted" by getting from A to B.

 

Focusing on gaining rank XP  is possible and OK, as long for me I am able to do it solo and not run into a time- or content-gate (e.g. Port-Battles(PvP-Server), impossible Missions).

 

Grouping as an alternative, would need to be significant more profitable to compensate all the time lost.

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The most active players should be rewarded but grind will be a real problem gameplay-wise.

 

I personnaly think that each rank can have an enjoyable associated gameplay, but the only game reward seems to be able to buy bigger war ships => Grind goal, causing frustration wich is bad because we are not in a f2p game, frustrated players will quit, not throw you money. Same will happen when everyone will be in 3rd/2nd/1st rate, game will start to loose interest.

 

With the developpment of crafting, trading, exploration and other, players should have to make choices and not do everything.

 

ATM the grind level seems quite balanced, maybe hard for the lone newcomers until rank 3, but it's more a question of lack of tutorial and painfull ai in 1vs1. 

 

 

 

SHIPS OF THE LINE

 

 I Can imagine restriction in term of number of 3rd/2nd/1st rate ships per nation depending on port-shipyards controled/economy/crafting capacity. And when a player gain enough xp to man a 3rd rate, he need to look for an assignement (a deep water port) with one 3rd rate slot unnasigned. Then he can craft or buy one. If there is no assignement availlable, you have to help your country conquer more ports.

 

 If the 3rd rate gameplay don't suit you, you can retrocide the assignement and go back to a rank that suits you best, you will be able to ask again later for a 3rd rate. Same if you don't play for a long time, the game can declass you, same if you sux, don't help you faction,  another pretender can ask for your assignment resulting in a vote. If you gain enought xp for 2nd rate, same again and you leave your 3rd rate assignment free.

 

 That way, if you grind fast, you will find free slots easily, but if you don't gain respect as a big ship from your faction, other players will challenge your status, specially if your nation don't gain enought ports and you play selfishly. 

 

 Also, spanish and british having more port, will have access to more ships of the line to defend themselves against small nation like danish or pirates. This will balance the game. A minor faction with 4 ports will not have more more ship of the line than britain, so they will have to expend to be able to defend themselves.

 

 

 

TRADERS

 

I hope that more trader ships will come, then some will be allowed to choose to be a trader, this way, your xp allows you to buy bigger trader ship (gabare etc.. up to indiaman ?)

They concentrate on free trade, and can request trading missions.

 

 

 

FIRE SHIPS

 

Everyone start in a sloop, it's a good ship, if you want to act as a privateer, attack and capture ennemy traders you don't really need much more for the rest of the game, capture a lynx, privateer, have fun with you fleet, enjoy. 

 

But a reason why everyone want to be in a bigger ship is because most of us want to participate sometimes in big battles and not being useless, not being a reason your team loose. Small ships don't really fit in these for the moment, i really hope that later you will be able at low rank to buy or convert your Cutter / Brig / Ketch / Sloop into a fire ship with very reduced mobility and possibility to sink, burn or explode  before reaching any ennemy. This could be very interesting and historicaly accurate.

 

They should be a very costly one time option reserved to pre-frigates ships maybe once every 24h so no abuse.

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Fireships were not VBIEDs. They were unmanned vessels set to drift with tide or sail on set course toward a stationary enemy that was not prepared for their use.

There are lots of other ways small vessels can be made more relevant.

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Ignorant comment.

It's not simply a matter of "learn how to play" but having time to play in the first place, not all of us can spend hours a day playing with cartoon ships for days on end due to family and work commitments. I'd be lucky to fit in 2-3 hours a week and even then most sessions and battles are interrupted.

Um , if you have only limited time then play the game accordingly. Im lucky to get 4 hours in Monday -Thursday and weekends i get more so i just play accordingly. In 2 weeks ive made level 4 i think it is and i have plenty of gold and every ship i want plus a cerb i bought cuz it was on the cheap , and i cant even use it.

Because of my limited play time i have chosen to play as a pirate ( dont need to be devoted or orginized etc) and spend my short time hunting players or trade ships and have had fun doing it. If you cant have fun playing the way your life dictates them sandbox games are not for you.

Try not playing the game " to win " but play the game just to play the game and you will enjoy a sandbox world much more.

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I am too one of the limited time players, playing on the PvE-Server (Interruptions, Session Length)

Now imagine a session time of 1 to 2 hours:

You have to focus what you want to do in that time:

- Shopping and crafting, depends, can take 1-2 hours

- Doing Missions, 3-4 Missions per hour

- Hunt Traders, 2-3 Traders per hour

All that done solo.

I have never grouped up so far in NA, but these are my concerns:

- Gathering time (find players, get from A to B, waiting)

- Time to find appropriate target

Many MMOs solved this by e.g.:

- letting you teleport to your groupleader

- no or minor time lost to find an appropriate "target" or content due to "teleport" or short travel times

Allways of concern are, but not limited to NA:

- Battletime

- Interruptions

A lot of time in NA is simple "wasted" by getting from A to B.

Focusing on gaining rank XP is possible and OK, as long for me I am able to do it solo and not run into a time- or content-gate (e.g. Port-Battles(PvP-Server), impossible Missions).

Grouping as an alternative, would need to be significant more profitable to compensate all the time lost.

You either need to adjust your play time to YOUR busy life or realize sandbox games are not for you. There are so very few sandbox games that you have to go out of your way to find them so that means its real easy to find carebare games. Im not trying to be rude at all im just saying that a theme park game would be more your style if you cant enjoy playing on a limited schedule.

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Sandbox games or theme park games can have long or short sessions.

 

And you are rude, limited play time != carebear != theme park games.

 

And I am not complaining about the grind, just making clear that grouping is not the "solution" for everyone.

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Sandbox games or theme park games can have long or short sessions.

And you are rude, limited play time != carebear != theme park games.

And I am not complaining about the grind, just making clear that grouping is not the "solution" for everyone.

Sorry that it sounded rude but asking to be able to teleport to your friends or to teleport to the place you want to go or to teleport to the content you want is or was called carebare back in the day.

Anyways i was only offering you advice since i play less than you and have had no issues. I even group with my friends and its as easy as making sure to tell each other in advance what youre gonna do next time youre on so everyone is close.

Good luck to you.

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Sorry that it sounded rude but asking to be able to teleport to your friends or to teleport to the place you want to go or to teleport to the content you want is or was called carebare back in the day.

I thought being a carebear was not liking PVP and being on a PVE server? In EVE being a carebear was being in Empire Space (I think it was called that). They have teleportation in WoW on both PVE and PVP servers. It is done by a certain type of character. And it does save a lot of time.

 

I'm not breaking your chops here. All I am saying is that I disagree with your definition of carebear. I am a carebear by my definition. I really don't like PvP all that much anymore.

 

I do understand peoples frustration with the amount of time they are able to put into the game and enjoy it. A good example was EVE for me. Trying to get people together to take down another groups ships or to take down their space location was a big pain. I forget what the darn thing was called where a group was able to store their ships in non-Empire space that had a force field type device, it's been a while since I played. It got to the point where it took so long to get together to do our thing, and I had other commitments, that I stopped playing EVE.

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No chops busted. We ( back in original EQ days) called anyone who wanted things easier , faster , less of a problem, teleports and corpse summing. Basicly peoplw who wanted EZ mode was called carebears lol.

I dont know about the pvp thing.

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The lack of things to do creates a vacuum and amplifies the repetitiveness of the "Grind". Unless more things to do is added to the game then that heavy grind feel will never change for those players that have real issue with grinding.

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