Pirates ship availability compromise.

[Callaghan]

This game can never be advertised as ´realistic´if pirates are able to crew, use and maintain 3rd rates and larger. This is obvious, and the fact that the devs allow pirates very large ships goes against the core design principles of the game and the reason why many people invested in pre-alpha.

 

For whatever reason, the devs seem incapable of simply sticking to their guns and denying all the Jack Sparrow wannabes from getting these large ships, so here´s a mechanics compromise to make it more viable.

 

Pirates are unable to have crews large enough to effectively use SOLs, but they can still capture them, sell them and even use them if they like, they would just have a MASSIVE penalty. They would have the same number of ranks as the other nations, but each rank would correspond to a smaller crew.

 

To compensate for this, and to reflect the pirate ´flavour´ with a bit more emphasis, I suggest that pirates are able to keep all of the durability on ships that they capture. This would be a fair compromise, and would also make being a pirate more ´piratey´ i.e. you would now have a great reason to go out and capture more ships as part of the core gameplay, as opposed to having one mastercrafted for you which is just ridiculous for a pirate. Thoughts?

[Galileus]

There is another topic about just that.

[Reonhato]

Give me just one example of the Devs every saying they were ever going to limit the size of ships pirates can sail. It just isn't going to happen.

 

Some players seem to be under the impression that this is a simulator and realism is the number 1 priority. News flash, it isn't, the priority is making a good game.

[buccaneer]

1) Player bought a game for 30 bucks (or even 40, depends on region) and can have that snazzy 3rd rate? or victory? sounds awfull to me.

2) If any ship, captured by a pirates will have full durability that will blow ship markets and whole game economy - since captured ships will have higher rate of investment.

 

personally, i dont like that almost every 3rd AI fleet runs with 3rd rates and linear ships. I think amount of high level ships should be limited and their maintance should cost alot, forcing owner to sail alot in order to have enough cash.

Noone should be able to BUY high level ship, but win it in large naval battle, of capture in open world.

i suppose the overall amount on linear ships were not more then 1-2% from overall ship mass in carribean, and 95% of them came from Europe.

[Reki]

There is another topic about just that.

this announcement should appear each time, when someone start topic here

[Galileus]

this announcement should appear each time, when someone start topic here

 

I have copyrights, I will be taking a cut.

 

And seriously, the other one is very active and much more detailed from what I remember. That's why I brought that up.

[Callaghan]

Some of us don´t spend every day on the forum, and I don´t have the time to look through the entire forum to see if there is another topic. These are my suggestions, and I put them in the correct place.

[Captain Boneboys]

There is another topic about just that.

Add links and / or Report and suggest to Staff that the Topic be merged.

[Galileus]

Add links and / or Report and suggest to Staff that the Topic be merged.

Some of us don´t spend every day on the forum, and I don´t have the time to look through the entire forum to see if there is another topic. These are my suggestions, and I put them in the correct place.

 

Ok, ok, I won't try to help out anymore, I understand I did wrong.

[donalddawkins]

I think the issue with pirates right now is that it's become a nation with all round pvp, and as such as upset a lot of players who were hoping to for a certainly difficult but different type of play then with the other factions.

 

I personally would advocate anything that would breakdown the current pirate nation mechanic, and making it so that they cannot field larger ships means they won't be able to go toe to toe with late game faction vessels, and hopefully force pirates into the cat and mouse role they were originally intended for.

 

However, simply cutting things out of pirates without adding original features to make up for it would will deter some players from using the faction.

 

Therefore, I would advocate that pirates be limited to the maximum of frigate class vessels, but give them a wider variety of frigates and crafting options; why not let the pirates jerry rig a brig to have 15 cannons at the cost of low speed and manoeuvrability? why not let pirates tear chunks off their snow's armour for a speed advantage, or let pirates deck out their mercury's with 9 pounders?

 

Of course, pirate crafter would have to be careful about modifying their vessels in case their modifications literally break their ships (no 69 pounders on cutters!), but I think it would be a really healthy compromise, and add a bit more uniqueness between individual pirates.

 

Also smuggling, pirates need dat smuggling!

[ajffighter86]

A simple solution to this would be if they implemented crew hiring. Crew would be hard to come by in small pirate towns, but in large national cities like Charleston or Port Royale, everyone on the dock is signing up to serve king (or president) and country.

 

By necessity, I wouldn't be able to hire enough crew at a time to continuously take a 1st rate ship out into battle as a pirate. Players who follow the flag of nations would have an easier time keeping their ships manned to top efficiency.

Edited January 31, 2016 by ajffighter86

[Galileus]

A simple solution to this would be if they implemented crew hiring. Crew would be hard to come by in small pirate towns, but in large national cities like Charleston or Port Royale, everyone on the dock is signing up to serve king (or president) and country.

 

By necessity, I wouldn't be able to hire enough crew at a time to continuously take a 1st rate ship out into battle as a pirate. Players who follow the flag of nations would have an easier time keeping their ships manned to top efficiency.

 

That very same mechanic - bith for pirates as for nation - could also force a rotation of ships. Lost your 1st rate? Well, you gotta sail in smaller things for few days before you can replenish the crew.

 

Love it.

[Ruthless4u]

The issue with pirates is the devs stated( iirc) they wanted pirates to be the hardest faction. Instead they made them the easiest with no restrictions on them so now I believe they are the 2nd largest faction.

[ajffighter86]

That very same mechanic - bith for pirates as for nation - could also force a rotation of ships. Lost your 1st rate? Well, you gotta sail in smaller things for few days before you can replenish the crew.

 

Love it.

I'd like to modify it a bit as well, take it a step further.

 

Pirate captains have to pay their own crews out of their own pockets. National players would get a substantial discount or possibly even free crew, since it is the governments who pay wages for the crews of commissioned ships.

 

That puts realism back into it without having to actually reprogram the game bar anyone from physically using a ship.

 

I mean if really really really want to sail that SOL as a pirate, I'll have to sail to a ton of pirate ports to obtain the number of crew i'll need, plus i'll have to be paying people along the way as I make my recruitment drive. I'd probably go broke. But it could be done if I were a very rich pirate. Just not for long.

Edited January 31, 2016 by ajffighter86

[Galileus]

I'd like to modify it a bit as well, take it a step further.

 

Pirate captains have to pay their own crews out of their own pockets. National players would get a substantial discount or possibly even free crew, since it is the governments who pay wages for the crews of commissioned ships.

 

That puts realism back into it without having to actually reprogram the game bar anyone from physically using a ship.

 

I mean if really really really want to sail that SOL as a pirate, I'll have to sail to a ton of pirate ports to obtain the number of crew i'll need, plus i'll have to be paying people along the way as I make my recruitment drive. I'd probably go broke. But it could be done if I were a very rich pirate. Just not for long.

 

... or if one of these "pirate clans" would all use their money to finance it.

 

That would also provide an additional money sink existent only for pirates, which in turn allows you to allow pirates higher income - as they should be able to get.

[Hexcaliber]

This game makes numerous changes to history for the sake of playability; and quite rightly. If it were to be truly historic, nations could not target other ports at will, players of a given nation would be limited to specific ships, pirates would be allowed to over gun their ships, the size of a nations presence and the players able to participate on their behalf would be limited, death would be permanent and so on.

 

When players start talking about realism in games, generally, they only want as much realism as suits them as an individual. While as a business providing entertainment in a niche market, developers have to cater to a much broader range of tastes, and provide a semblence of balance to those taking part if they are to avoid over population in one area of their game at the expense of others.

 

This game uses historic ships in a real world setting; however, players are free to rewrite history with their actions. Who is to say that pirates could not have become organised enough to crew rates? It would only have taken a single character with enough force of will and character to approach disparate pirate groups bringing them together so that they formed a more cohesive whole. In game, Pirates are already one of the biggest groups with more economic clout than many others.

 

From a practical standpoint were the game to limit the ships player pirates are able to crew it would have to provide some pretty serious consensions to player pirates in order that they not become simple fodder for nationals. They have after all paid the same as everyone else; folks are here to have fun, not work, recreate history minute by minute, nor to be treated like second class citizens simply for the entertainment of others.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Hexcaliber

[ajffighter86]

This game makes numerous changes to history for the sake of playability; and quite rightly. If it were to be truly historic, nations could not target other ports at will, players of a given nation would be limited to specific ships, pirates would be allowed to over gun their ships, the size of a nations presence and the players able to participate on their behalf would be limited, death would be permanent and so on.

 

When players start talking about realism in games, generally, they only want as much realism as suits them as an individual. While as a business providing entertainment in a niche market, developers have to cater to a much broader range of tastes, and provide a semblence of balance to those taking part if they are to avoid over population in one area of their game at the expense of others.

 

This game uses historic ships in a real world setting; however, players are free to rewrite history with their actions. Who is to say that pirates could not have become organised enough to crew rates? It would only have taken a single character with enough force of will and character to approach disparate pirate groups bringing them together so that they formed a more cohesive whole. In game, Pirates are already one of the biggest groups with more economic clout than many others.

 

From a practical standpoint were the game to limit the ships player pirates are able to crew it would have to provide some pretty serious consensions to player pirates in order that they not become simple fodder for nationals. They have after all paid the same as everyone else; folks are here to have fun, not work, recreate history minute by minute, nor to be treated like second class citizens simply for the entertainment of others.

 

If pirates are to be an enjoyable playable faction while being limited by the constraints of what was possible for the time period, then you are right, there needs to be a total revamping of the 'play style' of pirates. It's not exactly the same as making it 'more difficult', but the style of play necessary should be different so that if you don't know what you're doing you'll end up dead quickly (which I guess would make it more difficult).

 

Just one example would be to actually have tiered water depth on the open world map, so pirates in small ships (that almost every national player here wants them to use) can use the shallows to escape from those larger ships. If people want a 'cat and mouse' play style then it has to go both ways for both nationals and pirates. As a pirate, I'd be game.

 

You could have individual pirate 'clans' be able to take commissions from national admiralties and have limited privileges in their ports but maybe limit it to one nation at a time. It would introduce privateering into the game (realistic for the time period). But somehow make it so pirates wouldn't have access to nation's chats so there wouldn't be a big problem with spying. They would be limited to simply chatting with individual players of that nation so that anything in the nation chat would still be classified info.

Edited January 31, 2016 by ajffighter86