Pirate Mechanics Vote

[Rikard Frederiksen]

I've not forgotten this is a game in the slightest, I merely mused upon the idea of expanding the role of these parliaments beyond 'We're at war with them, and friends with them'. If by some almost impossible chance something along those lines did happen, and the inevitable of what you've put down happened, then it would actually be close to the reality of the politics of the time - democracy as we may know it now was not the same 200 years ago, certainly in England at least.

 

It wouldn't work anyway because people would be upset to lose direct access to 1st-3rd Rates.

 

However, I feel we're getting a little off topic, and I apologise for my shooting off down that path.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Rikard Frederiksen

[themule08]

For all those debating irl and this is just a game I want my big ships. Fine play as a national.. if they did the changes I mentioned a page back I would be a pirate.. since they don't I will stick to nationals.

I want the pirate "nation" to be restricted to ships because then you will get amazing frigates and fore and aft ships that only you can have.

[Sickerthansars]

For all those debating irl and this is just a game I want my big ships. Fine play as a national.. if they did the changes I mentioned a page back I would be a pirate.. since they don't I will stick to nationals.

I want the pirate "nation" to be restricted to ships because then you will get amazing frigates and fore and aft ships that only you can have.

limiting ships/giving special ships is a bad idea because then you're just going to have to deal with near constant balancing issues, people already complain enough about pirates being OP...despite them having the  exact same ships...the exact same mods...the exact same perks..the exact same wood types to build ships out of...the exact same guns to put on their ships (hopefully you can see where this is going)

 

Just no.

 

Limiting ships etc is just  flatout dumb.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Sickerthansars

[Wilson09]

Limiting ships etc is just  flatout dumb.

flat out dumb !??

 

no comment on this....

[Sickerthansars]

flat out dumb !??

 

no comment on this....

If you cant see how limiting ships is a bad idea well then the shoe fits perfectly. 

[Rikard Frederiksen]

I don't see how you would think that limiting ships would be a bad thing. Want the big ships & to go toe-to-toe with warships in mass battles & port battles? Should be in a nation, who had the resources, finances, shipyards, time & infrastructure available to build, man & maintain such ships*. If you want to be a pirate you should be in smaller ships, aiming to attack commerce to make money & avoid naval warships (aka a long length of hemp hung over the yard arm). Pirates shouldn't really want to tangle with the European naval forces which, if I may remind people, are the focus of the game, not pirates who should be a sideshow.

 

*I still maintain my view, of course, that 4th Rates & higher should be extremely difficult to get ahold of & maintain for national players.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Rikard Frederiksen

[Hethwill]

Nothing against what you said and many pirates do play self imposed sort-of hard mode because it is kind of more fun, albeit we simply disregard the "nation of pirates". Wouldn't be that far fetched having the Nations also to support maintenance costs for their navies and infrastructure, because as it stands Nation captains simply hoard and look to their own ( group ) comfort of wealth and private fleets without any serious monetary and duty compromise to the Nation.

 

Balance within reason and within development resources I guess.

[Rikard Frederiksen]

I absolutely agree, 100%. Upkeep of ships should be of importance, and should obviously be rather costly when looking at larger vessels. I'd also like to see fewer spaces available in docks so you have to prioritise your vessels. I feel that there are too many safety nets, and I'd like to see these chipped away to an extent, although I doubt that would be popular.

 

I'd love to go pirate, but there is nothing to draw me over so far. I could go for self-imposed limits but I know I'd break them because I'd have the safe option to.

[Sir Texas Sir]

I like the poll, voted for raiding only.

 

I will only vote on restricting ships of the line for pirates if there is another mechanic that "buffs" them or somehow compensates for that limitation.

 

As a Britain player, I've found pirates to be some of the most organized and would hate to hurt their ability to give us good fights. 

I would like to see more ships like Pirate Frigate and they can even keep them only basic ships so folks won't jump on the "THEY ARE OP" Wagon.  They can do some combo's like Take a deck of guns off and add a bigger cargo hold (not trader level but more than the warships have).   Stay wiith the ligher armor, but more gun and/or crew on some ships.  It's not like we can't capture any of the SOL any way, but if we do I think there should be a big bounty on your head to have that ship sunk or returned.

[Sir Texas Sir]

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

 

Privateer is a private ship owner who acts under a letter of marque to attack shipping of HIS NATIONS ENEMIES.  Historical example would be Sir Francis Drake. 

 

Privateers were often paid based on the prize they took.  This meant it could be VERY profitable but also VERY dangerous as most privateers didn't sail anything much larger than a brig.  

 

As for Pirates, pirates should be much like privateers in function just they don't have a nation to hide under for protection, but they can make more profit per prize.  As they are not taxed on their earnings.  

 

But if you want to go completely historical, pirate captains would have to be elected to their position.   And seeing as most pirates life span was only about a year, yes one year, people wouldn't want that.

Most Privateers where called Pirates by the nation they attacked for there sponsored Nation.  IE if he was a French Privateer and he took a spanish ship.  Spain would call him a Pirate.  So would maybe British if he took some of there merchant ships too.  They tend to slide off the letters of there powers a bit and that what makes them pretty much Pirates to any one else.

[Skippy]

What about they make the new alliance and war vote system no vailable for pirate. Instead, Pirates would be at war with all other nation all the time. That would make sense because they are pirates after all.  And with this, you limit their towns by having only a few town spreaded on the map that are uncapable (impossible to invade by the nationals).  More over, no conquest possible for the pirates, but instead a systeme of raids to plunder national town to get ressources etc. and Finally keeping the freetown available for them.  You could also include a new system of temporary hiden outpost that pirates clans could build.

[Fastidius]

What about they make the new alliance and war vote system no vailable for pirate. Instead, Pirates would be at war with all other nation all the time. That would make sense because they are pirates after all.  And with this, you limit their towns by having only a few town spreaded on the map that are uncapable (impossible to invade by the nationals).  More over, no conquest possible for the pirates, but instead a systeme of raids to plunder national town to get ressources etc. and Finally keeping the freetown available for them.  You could also include a new system of temporary hiden outpost that pirates clans could build.

pirates don't get alliances in the system now,  conquest for them goes next patch if it is ready

[Skully]

pirates don't get alliances in the system now,  conquest for them goes next patch if it is ready

Which is technically speaking a bug, but I don't want to bring it down that harsh.

The purpose of politics is to give players tools to enforce what they agreed on on forums/chats/voicecomms

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15577-alliances-final-design/?p=291258

[Bjerg Bjergsson]

I'm just going to drop this here and I imagine it may be somewhat unpopular but it struck me as an interesting thought so what the hell. 

Given the "allegiance-less" nature of pirates, coupled with the rather disproportionate abilities of pirates regarding alliance/war (they can make/break alliances or agreements as they see fit without adhering to the politics metagame, possibly backdooring someone they had agreements with) I wonder if part of the "pirate problem" is their social unity. They are "flag-less" but still can form clans and for all intents and purposes *act* like a nation. Indeed they have all the social trappings of a Nation with relatively little in the way of downsides. As an idea, I propose to make the Pirate the "individual" that they seek to truly be, tied to neither nation nor clan. Pirates would have no ability to form clans, no Nation chat and possibly even limited Global chat access. Conversation would have to be in port or on the high seas or through Private Messages with friends made previously. The idea is to truly make Pirates structural individualists not just "rebels" in name alone. Alliances may be between ships you bump into while out sailing, it may be between friends you've met in the past or it may be with no one in particular. Piracy to me, should be a solitary life full of danger and difficulty (reflecting the skill level required) where every ship that they encounter could be an enemy, be it a pirate or a national. 

 

Anyways, I like the OP and have made my vote, but I just thought it was an interesting avenue to explore. 

[KrakkenSmacken]

 

Pirates would have no ability to form clans, no Nation chat and possibly even limited Global chat access. Conversation would have to be in port or on the high seas or through Private Messages with friends made previously. The idea is to truly make Pirates structural individualists not just "rebels" in name alone. Alliances may be between ships you bump into while out sailing, it may be between friends you've met in the past or it may be with no one in particular. Piracy to me, should be a solitary life full of danger and difficulty (reflecting the skill level required) where every ship that they encounter could be an enemy, be it a pirate or a national. 

 

Anyways, I like the OP and have made my vote, but I just thought it was an interesting avenue to explore. 

 

 

Culture eats strategy for breakfast.

- Peter Drucker.

 

Fighting pirate unity is fighting a chosen culture.  NO game mechanic will create disunity where unity is desired of the participants. In a game where every other nation is essentially and by game mechanics always against them, unity is the only logical outcome of the national strategy, for those that want a sense of tribal identity.

 

If you strip the mechanics out of the game, they will simply move those mechanics somewhere else.  Add obstacles, and they will over come them.  It's a rather short sighted and ultimately pointless suggestion to try to force a wedge with one set of mechanics, while other mechanics encourage unity.

 

 The Devs just found out how bad culture and human nature can break the best of intended mechanics, with the event of two weeks ago.

 

Your suggestion is tantamount to trying to drill a hole in water.

Edited August 31, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[Rikard Frederiksen]

Whilst I agree it wouldn't stop members of a pirate clan/'nation' coming together, as they can organise it outside of the game, it would make it a lot harder and require effort. People do not like effort, they like the easiest route they can find. So whilst a number of pirates would be organised, I reckon a larger number will not unify as they don't know where to go to find these externally-organised clans, or VOIP channels, as there wouldn't be a national chat to advertise them.
 

[KrakkenSmacken]

Whilst I agree it wouldn't stop members of a pirate clan/'nation' coming together, as they can organise it outside of the game, it would make it a lot harder and require effort. People do not like effort, they like the easiest route they can find. So whilst a number of pirates would be organised, I reckon a larger number will not unify as they don't know where to go to find these externally-organised clans, or VOIP channels, as there wouldn't be a national chat to advertise them.

 

So in a multiplayer game, your solution is to attempt to isolate a group deliberately so that the game is difficult to play in the way they want to play it, in the exact opposite way good games facilitate the socializer (see Bartles Taxonomy types) player, a play type that makes up the bulk of a MMO player base.

 

And you think that is going to keep players and make it more interesting?

 

I am very glad you are not a game developer, although watching stupid social engineering attempts like that fail spectacularly may teach you something.

Edited August 31, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[Rikard Frederiksen]

As it currently stands nothing makes the pirates interesting. That is why I'm still sailing for a nation. If pirates lose the safety nets so many would-be pirates seem to crave despite wanting to think of themselves as some fearless scourge of the seas, once piracy actually has consequences, once it is actually interesting, then I'd be happier to go pirate. Currently... there is nothing. Nothing but a black flag and a different rank name.

 

If you want to be organised, go toe-to-toe with warships, capture ports and wrestle for control of the Caribbean, then really you should be sailing for a nation.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Rikard Frederiksen

[Hethwill]

You can also make your own gameplay without safety nets, without capital, without buildings, forcing yourself not to use teleports and damn me for not doing it, you can force yourself to have only ONE ship ever at a time and only change if you capture or buy one at a free port.

 

You know that right ? You are not forced to play Pirate as a nation.

[Rikard Frederiksen]

I just want the way pirates work in general to make more sense, to be different, rather than 'and here is Nation #7'.

EDIT: Just as a by-the-by, the odds are high this evening that I will be rerolling to pirate, just so I can go one ship, Free Towns only, raiding commerce and trading routes. I'm a bit tired of sailing for a nation and want to finally embrace piracy.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Rikard Frederiksen

[KrakkenSmacken]

As it currently stands nothing makes the pirates interesting. That is why I'm still sailing for a nation. If pirates lose the safety nets so many would-be pirates seem to crave despite wanting to think of themselves as some fearless scourge of the seas, once piracy actually has consequences, once it is actually interesting, then I'd be happier to go pirate. Currently... there is nothing. Nothing but a black flag and a different rank name.

 

If you want to be organised, go toe-to-toe with warships, capture ports and wrestle for control of the Caribbean, then really you should be sailing for a nation.

You don't need more mechanics to be a pirate, you just need to act like one.

 

Stop basing out of your capital.

Always sail under the smuggler flag.

Go into ANY waters looking for targets.

 

I don't fight at my capital, I don't join PB's, and I get most of my resources from free ports, or trader capture.

 

I usually hunt around free ports that I know have heavy national activity.  Try to show up in unexpected places, at unexpected times, and waylay a trader or two.

 

Got me a free Belle off a trader just a few days ago doing that.

 

All this is possible under the current mechanics.  Once again, players make different choices, and as long as they do, attempts to bottle them up will only do one thing, reduce the population on the servers.

 

By the way, Admin has pointed out that pirates held more than 14 ports. They didn't get those handed to them, they had to take them, so saying pirates should not be in the port game is simply not accurate.

 

 

EDIT: Just as a by-the-by, the odds are high this evening that I will be rerolling to pirate, just so I can go one ship, Free Towns only, raiding commerce and trading routes. I'm a bit tired of sailing for a nation and want to finally embrace piracy.

Good for you.

 

I would not personally restrict myself to one ship however, given the current population.  I have a raider ship in ... 6 free towns, so I can take a peek around the port, and if I don't find what I am looking for, move to the next one. 

 

I would rather my game time be spent doing what I want, than to spend most of it looking for what I want, but if you enjoy only finding one good target every couple of game sessions, more power to you.

Edited August 31, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[Skully]

EDIT: Just as a by-the-by, the odds are high this evening that I will be rerolling to pirate, just so I can go one ship, Free Towns only, raiding commerce and trading routes. I'm a bit tired of sailing for a nation and want to finally embrace piracy.

Where it not that the Pirates are currently nerfed by not having the ability anymore to attack one-another.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16026-cant-attack-another-pirate/

This has its reasons, but it also means you can not fully experience how it used to be.

We already had our own alliances and Kill-on-Sight sheets.

Communication outside of game, because we don't trust our Nation channel.

There was/is nothing to take away.

It was similar to sailing continuously with the Smuggler flag enabled. Since Smuggler has no real effect on a Pirate, I never turned it off again.

[Aydz]

I want to start a vote... stop talking about pirate crafting ships.

 

Until they have a definite pirate mechanics alteration that includes pirate ships....

 

S

T

F

U

[Vernon Merrill]

G

T

F

O

H

[Skully]

...

...

Gentlemen, I will ask you for true feedback, not rubbish. This is not the (almost) free-for-all National News.

Either clean it up, or let a moderator toss it. Your choice.

But maybe we should just keep it standing up as such to let you define your own caliber.