Pirate Mechanics Vote

[Fastidius]

It not having 'hardmode' what do you honestly think hardmode is?

 

Pirates have had dysfunctional mechanics for a long time and nothing about them has been hardmode. Infact what you are complaining about being implemented in the future IS actually making them finally hardmode. No friends, no alliances only themselves seeking to make personal profit by force and guile. well yes and no.  yes it is hard mode but it is a punishment because your content limited with no gains...thats just hurting them not making them different style. 

 

Why do you think pirates need the ability to make alliances to be pirates? Look at Black and pagan pete to see how to behave as a real pirate. I think they should be assigned alliances to help balance other nations  ie no buildings no ports just PVP buffs for the nation without it being a bad buff with stupid math or AI

Why do you think pirates need the ability to capture ports to be pirates?  ^ See above.I dont i want privateers to and for the nation they are alligned to IE having a second ally to help them out of the whole Smashed to oblivion each season. Pirates is a punishment privateers is a balancing force with limitations and benefits...see capture and crafting

Why do you think pirates need SOL (Useless in pursuing laden tradeships) to be pirates? ^ See above.read.  i want them to capture to trade to their allies only for financial gain. unable to sail them.

 

And btw, privateers are national thing and we are all pretty much privateers as we get to keep what we capture instead of turning it in to the admiralty. you seem to have not understood what you are reading....i want a few clans that are classed as privateers to be aligned with the weakest nations to create balance and as such they can help nations but also do it with weakers ships but boarding focus and thus assist the ally.  imagine it as the admiralty is the nation you are aligned to. 

Effectively Privateers are PVP only for assisting an ally set by the rankings in previous seasons.

Pirates is punishment fro breaking the rules but an avenue to swap nation or join privateers or rejoin your nation.......IE dont do Green on Green

Edited August 9, 2016 by Fastidius

[Prater]

Ok, I rephrase.

 

Where have the DEVS stated they are going to remove lineships from pirates?  In fact, the devs have stated they will not do that.  And btw, the devs have stated that the vast majority of polls are worthless and they don't even look at them, especially when it comes to pirates.

[Powderhorn]

Dev-struction thread merged to pirate mechanics vote thread, as we have an ungodly number of pirate threads already, and it had 0 business being in National News.  It is now in the appropriate subforum.

[Fastidius]

Dev-struction thread merged to pirate mechanics vote thread, as we have an ungodly number of pirate threads already, and it had 0 business being in National News.  It is now in the appropriate subforum.

you now made it something people wont read.......make it it's own thread at least since it is actually current stuff and not from 4 months ago.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Fastidius

[Powderhorn]

This thread is an active pirate mechanics discussion, as I checked before merging it over here.  A series of posts over the past week.

[Fastidius]

This thread is an active pirate mechanics discussion, as I checked before merging it over here.  A series of posts over the past week.

how many views tho.

[Tomms123]

how many views tho.

National News is not for mechanic discussion.

So just go along with what the moderator wrote and start discussing it here, if you want more views on the subject then spread it around.

[Fastidius]

National News is not for mechanic discussion.

So just go along with what the moderator wrote and start discussing it here, if you want more views on the subject then spread it around.

thats why i started a new thread....move it to somewhere useful maybe rather than a thread that clearly has turned into a banter thread.

 

 

Hijacking it back here

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15722-dev-struction-rise-of-the-privateers-idea/

 

because it isnt about pirate mechanics as much as it's next stage and deserves a different discussion.  I think the argument was about location not the content.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Fastidius

[Sickerthansars]

So they merged another thread about nats crying about pirates ganking them into this one amazing

 

and for the love of god stop with the "pirates shouldnt have SOL's because they didnt historically"  its astoundingly stupid. Why you nat's cant figure this out is beyond me.

[Skully]

In the interest of spreading love, or blatantly promote my own arguments.

I'm not saying we should remove Pirate Nation. But rather tie default Rules of Engagements on it, with the option to override at Clan level. It should also not be an option for Pirates to file National edicts (/Alliances).

So by default the Pirate Nation is hostile to every other Nation and the inter-Clan RoE should also be hostile.

I do agree that in Clan battles should be disabled (or zero reward). The same for in Nation battles.

This should already solve a big part of the free-for-all battle as it then becomes a Nation-Nation, Clan-Nation or Clan-Clan battle.

We can then make the Pirate Nation fully invisible and have the Pirate hard core mode right there.

But if Clan edicts would be too complex or take too much time, then I rather see the Pirate Nation still be a full Nation in the upcoming patch with the associated access to the Alliances mechanic. Until such time that we get to whatever true Pirate mechanic comes into play.

[Bach]

Ok, I rephrase.

Where have the DEVS stated they are going to remove lineships from pirates? In fact, the devs have stated they will not do that. And btw, the devs have stated that the vast majority of polls are worthless and they don't even look at them, especially when it comes to pirates.

I don't think the Devs would remove pirate ability to sail rates. It's simply not practical in a game where the average national player can and will sail a 3rd or 2nd rate to accomplish menial everyday tasks.

For example: nationals aren't sailing the coast of Jamaica in lone cargo ships. They are using LGVs with x2 Connie escorts. when they sail from Kingsport to Port Morant doing patrol missions they are not sailing frigates as much as Bellonas. When nationals come to Mortimer Town to hunt pirates they aren't using the Corvettes and Sloops Lt. Maynard used to chase Blackbeard. They are using fast frigates backed up by rate ships.

The only way to keep the playing field relatively level for pirates, without restricting rate ships from national captains, is to let the pirates sail them as well. If the standard NAT ship was a frigate then you could restrict pirates to frigates. But in our game every National sea captain is a rear admiral with a rate ship. So there simply wouldn't be a pirate game if you didn't raise the pirates to the same average standard.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Bach

[Wilson09]

 So there simply wouldn't be a pirate game if you didn't raise the pirates to the same average standard.

Disagree.

[Wilson09]

My one and only "principles for Naval Action pirates"

 

As I am not programming or being involved in development, I can only state

principles or say what I want, you (if you choose to like it) have to make it work and happen.

 

Proposition 1:

- pirates (the faction) may sail any ship (1-7th rate)

 

Proposition 2:

- pirates may board any ship, giving them 1 dura (1-7th rate)

 

Proposition 3:

- pirates craft only 5th to 7th rate

 

Proposition 4:

- pirates craft pirate special ships (pirate frigate and lower)

(making the pirate frigate the "queen of ships" for all pirates = flagship, nameable?)

 

Proposition 5:

- pirates performances are somehow boosted using "perks (pirate)" or ship refinements

 

Proposition 6:

- pirates may attack, capture, defend and own all kind of ports (as before)

 

Proposition 7:

- pirates may also raid ports

 

Proposition 8:

- pirates may form a nation having met heavy requirements

 

Proposition 9:

- pirates offer a wide selection of playstyles, suiting casual needs (afk mercenaries =don´t worry about ports, may the BRITS cry for help...don´t worry about PBs...hardcore pirates = trying to gain ports grow stronger and bigger and hit the ultimate, forming their own "Jamaica".....nation)

 

----------------------

some examples (too much to write all down, very likely it is in vain)

 

Assume we are in mid-game:

- I am part of a clan with 50 pirates

- we own 1 region (with ports)

- we have letter of marque by the British crown. They are our allies / protectors.

- British are at war with French, so are we

- we attack a region / opening port battles, how are the odds?

- shallow water PBs = same chances vs. French

- deep water? 5th rate facing 4th rate...

- regional capital? odds are bad...

As British may aid us, might not all be a problem.

 

- pirates might be able to "raid" down a regional capital to deep water port, so they can defend it with their

   captured 4th rates and the 5th rates they can craft...

.and so on....

Edited August 11, 2016 by Wilson09

[Rikard Frederiksen]

I don't think the Devs would remove pirate ability to sail rates. It's simply not practical in a game where the average national player can and will sail a 3rd or 2nd rate to accomplish menial everyday tasks.

For example: nationals aren't sailing the coast of Jamaica in lone cargo ships. They are using LGVs with x2 Connie escorts. when they sail from Kingsport to Port Morant doing patrol missions they are not sailing frigates as much as Bellonas. When nationals come to Mortimer Town to hunt pirates they aren't using the Corvettes and Sloops Lt. Maynard used to chase Blackbeard. They are using fast frigates backed up by rate ships.

The only way to keep the playing field relatively level for pirates, without restricting rate ships from national captains, is to let the pirates sail them as well. If the standard NAT ship was a frigate then you could restrict pirates to frigates. But in our game every National sea captain is a rear admiral with a rate ship. So there simply wouldn't be a pirate game if you didn't raise the pirates to the same average standard.

For now removing rated ships from pirates would not the best idea, in the short-term. In the long-term however, there are a great number of things that really need to be reworked before ships could be restricted for both pirates & captains in Naval Action; ranking & levelling system, the way ships are implemented in terms of availability to Captains & the plans for crafters, and the economy in general.

It is somewhat ludicrous that a crafter can casually afford to build a 1st Rated ship in the lines of HMS Victory, considering that Victory cost nearly £80 million in current money, within a few weeks. I can't help but feel that Unrated ships should be normal, frigates common, 4th Rates uncommon, 3rd - 1st Rates rarely ever seen, the plans incredibly hard to get hold of, the materials and cost extortionate, the time required extensive. Then, if those conditions can be met, that is when they could look at restricting ships for pirates. It is also silly how the ranking system works - I hate constantly seeing Flag officers or Admirals sailing around casually.

 

If you're playing the pirates' role as a commerce raider, then I don't see why you'd want a big ship anyway, unless you're just wanting to take the fight to the various Nations, which is an odd thing for a pirate to do - fighting a navy risks the ship, and could land the outlaw in the hands of the law, and that noose tied to a long rope hanging from a yard arm. As such, why not just join a Nation. It is not as if being a pirate gives you anything other than a black flag. I fear that in general there is too common a case of people wanting to sate their ego by going pirate, of being lawless and free, wanting to be a Jack Sparrow or whichever piratical figure from history/popular media you want to choose from, but not actually have to deal with the consequences there should be from being outside of the law, wanting the same safety nets Nations have, scared of not having the same toys as others.

The bottom line should be that if you go pirate it is a very hard, dangerous thing to do, without safety nets - an experience not a carbon copy of the Nations. That might finally draw me in to playing as a pirate, which I currently want to do. However, I'll not give up playing for a Nation when I'd be a pirate in name only.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Rikard Frederiksen

[themule08]

Pirates:

1. Allow to craft

2. 4th rate and below, and hopefully when all ships are made for final release they have specific pirate 4th rate ships.

3. Can't capture 3rd rates and above.. those ships took a huge crew and very skilled crew at that.

4. To get rid of the QQ from not being able to craft high end..give them refits.. cap a frigate take to port craft into a pirate frig. They are faster, and more guns..etc.. (this is what they did back then, they took ships and gutted them and made them their own.)

5. Raided towns take 2 days to recover to full production, they burn and pillage. They hold the port for 1 day, after that day you can go in like normal it turns back to the nation. Your buildings and what the port sells is gone for two days, while what the port consumes is increased to rebuild the port.

6. Rewards for pirates after port raiding is cash and special loot/rare loot or resources. This could be figured out... I like the idea of port battle rewards turned in for ships or something cool and rare.

Some of this is stolen from POTBS, but they did pirates pretty well. They were the pain in the butt that they should be, and their ships were really fun to fight with.

Just my .02 cents

[CptAhab]

To many people here say that pirates should be restricted in crafting or in the ship types available to them because that is how it was in history. The problem there is that this is not a simulator, this is a game. If we go full realism here, the game will die. We need the game to be fun, we need the pirates and all nations to have fun. Nerfing pirates back to Mortimer might make many national players happy, but it will also remove alot of the fun factor for the pirate players, and thus hurt the overall population of the game.

 

I am in agreement that pirates should not be able to capture ports. Raiding is a better idea for them, but don't restrict what they can build or what they can do economically unless there is something big to balance that out. I like the idea of pirates being able to modify ships, which would give them a battle edge, but not if they are restricted to only 5th rate ships or lower. I also agree that 1st rate ships should never be built by pirates, but in the interest of keeping this game FUN for ALL, they still need access to them, through free town shipyards for example.

 

I also understand that pirates are going to be excluded from diplomacy, that makes sense but pirates need a black market where they can offer services as mercenaries. Pirate clans should also have the ability to be allied with one or more nations and hired as privateers to aid a nation.

[Wilson09]

But if you want to go completely historical, pirate captains would have to be elected to their position.   And seeing as most pirates life span was only about a year, yes one year, people wouldn't want that.

A year gaming time sounds fine to me.

You cannot play one title all your life...

[Sickerthansars]

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

 

Privateer is a private ship owner who acts under a letter of marque to attack shipping of HIS NATIONS ENEMIES.  Historical example would be Sir Francis Drake. 

 

Privateers were often paid based on the prize they took.  This meant it could be VERY profitable but also VERY dangerous as most privateers didn't sail anything much larger than a brig.  

 

As for Pirates, pirates should be much like privateers in function just they don't have a nation to hide under for protection, but they can make more profit per prize.  As they are not taxed on their earnings.  

 

But if you want to go completely historical, pirate captains would have to be elected to their position.   And seeing as most pirates life span was only about a year, yes one year, people wouldn't want that.

If we went completely historical nats would quit playing once they found out their nation was only allowed ~8 1st rates total. 

[Hethwill]

Hodo, Caribbean fleet numbers only please.

[Sickerthansars]

"Nats"? 

 

And I hate to break it to you, but you are wrong there.  Depending on the year some nations had way more than 8 1st rates.  Just read this thread....

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13921-the-spanish-navy-1700-1800/

As in this image you will see that Spain had 20 1st rates. 

 

Which last I counted in the PvP2 US server, I think the British have about that many sailing around right now. 

 

Odd.....

nats=nationals

 

Also no one is going to want to play a game where 44 players is the cutoff point for players being able to crew frigates, and 61 players is the cutt off for having SOLs of any rate is my point. it will be even less when you look at Caribbean fleets.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Sickerthansars

[Rikard Frederiksen]

Thing is not to treat how ship allocation, if you will, is currently handled as the permanent way it will always be. It may be that it will all change in the future. If the way progression works is changed, then how players access ships can change. What I'd like to see is something along the lines of the diplomatic council things (expected in the Diplomacy patch) ordering/requesting 1st-3rd Rates, and then electing a Captain to command them. It could be done in a way to limit how many exist for that nation at any one time and ensure that either the best Captains or those with the most friends/connections politically recieved command of such a prestigious ship - not unlike reality. Then they'd be the very rare vessels produced when the Nation needs the firepower for a fleet action or port battle. Then, of course, pirates wouldn't have access to them at all.

 

Sadly, I doubt there'd be much backing behind such a proposal as the general view, from my experience, has always been that 'bigger' = 'better' = 'must have access to it', which is what people are scared of, losing access to the 'biggest' and 'best' options.

[Sickerthansars]

Thing is not to treat how ship allocation, if you will, is currently handled as the permanent way it will always be. It may be that it will all change in the future. If the way progression works is changed, then how players access ships can change. What I'd like to see is something along the lines of the diplomatic council things (expected in the Diplomacy patch) ordering/requesting 1st-3rd Rates, and then electing a Captain to command them. It could be done in a way to limit how many exist for that nation at any one time and ensure that either the best Captains or those with the most friends/connections politically recieved command of such a prestigious ship - not unlike reality. Then they'd be the very rare vessels produced when the Nation needs the firepower for a fleet action or port battle. Then, of course, pirates wouldn't have access to them at all.

 

Sadly, I doubt there'd be much backing behind such a proposal as the general view, from my experience, has always been that 'bigger' = 'better' = 'must have access to it', which is what people are scared of, losing access to the 'biggest' and 'best' options.

This would just get abused massively by large clans/people making alts etc etc.

 

My overall point is most nationals want to argue to limit pirates to smaller ships but then expect themselves to be able to all sail around in SOLs, thats not how it would be. If you want to limit one side, you have to have some limits on the other as well. 

Edited August 14, 2016 by Sickerthansars

[Rikard Frederiksen]

Indeed! Think of the political infighting that would exist as clans strove to get their nominee elected. Sounds marvellous to me.

[Hethwill]

nats=nationals

 

Also no one is going to want to play a game where 44 players is the cutoff point for players being able to crew frigates, and 61 players is the cutt off for having SOLs of any rate is my point. it will be even less when you look at Caribbean fleets.

 

Would be kind of funny if Rules of Engagement and War Articles would be mechanics for rank progression. I'd bet 61 would be more than enough

 

But it is a game So everything is al'right.

[Sickerthansars]

Indeed! Think of the political infighting that would exist as clans strove to get their nominee elected. Sounds marvellous to me.

The problem is you're forgetting its a game, and not RL...there wouldn't be juicy politics/intrigue cloak and dagger stuff etc to make it interesting at all. Large clans/players would just find the quickest/easiest way to game the system and elections would be more like appointments...it would be exactly like how the EVE interstellar council was for a long time no thank you ill pass on that nonsense all day.