Pirate Mechanics Vote

[Sea Archer]

Apart from limiting pirate ships, I would like to see uncapturable pirate ports distributes over the whole carribean,where production is possible, that are not shown on the maps. Some kind of secret spots.

[Hailstormz]

Perhaps instead of having Pirates unable to capture ports, have the number of ports they can hold at any one time limited.  For example, they can only hold, say 15 - 20 ports at once, but can hold ports anywhere on the map, so they as a faction could choose to strategically capture and hold ports, and if they were already at the limit would have to decide in some way (vote?) which port they wished to abandon before capturing another one.  I like the OP idea of Pirates being able to raid ports, and in this example if they were to abandon a port, the port could be reverted back to a nation with severe production penalties that would take time to get back to normal levels, as if it'd been ransacked prior to the pirates leaving town.  Not sure how best to determine what nation the port would go to, possibly just whomever the pirates took it from?  Out of the ports they are allowed to hold, they could designate 3 or so of them that could not be captured by nations.

 

Alternate/Additional idea - Maybe Pirates could capture any port, but only hold it for a limited time depending on the development level of the port, (ie type and number of buildings built by the original controlling nation)  The Pirates could have use of all buildings there, but are unable to build new/improved ones of their own.  Over time those buildings would either be destroyed or simply lose efficiency to a point where the Pirates would need to move on to a new port.  Then when the port reverted back to the Controlling Nation, players would have to re-invest in the port to get the buildings up and running again.  - This may be a bit outside the scope of what the developers have in mind for the game, but just tossing it out there.

 

Currently there does need to be some sort of re-balancing for pirates... as they should not be able to trounce another nation so badly that they have only one port left... As currently the British are held to on PVP #2 USA.  This is not an argument that pirates are over-powered, I don't really believe that, simply that the game style and goals for pirates are different than many who play for a nation.  There will be many players who play for a nation and want to primarily be a trader, so will be less likely to partake in battles of any kind, and certainly wont be looking to find one.  Pirate players however aren't looking for trade routes, and aren't just sailing from port to port looking to make a profit.  They are looking for a fight, each and every one of them.  Therefore they will always have the upper hand if no limitations of some sort are placed upon them, as every one of them is looking and willing to fight.  Whereas up to 1/4 of nation players would go out of there way to avoid a fight, and another 1/4, while not avoiding a fight, aren't necessarily going to go out of there way to join one either.  (yes I am making up these percentages but I believe the point is still valid) 

 

While it is currently possible for one nation to beat another down to only one port, it is much less likely, as they too would have a higher percentage of players that are primarily looking to trade, so the number of fighting sailors would be more even.  The problem is if the pirates (or any faction) are able to completely dominate another, it will kill the game as there will be no room for new players to come in and learn, explore and have some feeling of accomplishment.  Instead they'll run into the pack of Pirates sitting outside their only port, and stop playing.  (or join the pirates, but if only pirates are left, who will they attack?)  I believe that my above suggestion would allow pirate players to continue to hunt anywhere on the map and conquer ports without feeling overly limited, and still allow for areas of the map where nation players can continue to trade and sail in relative safety.... at least for a while. 

 

Sorry for the long post... but thanks for reading.

[Mrdoomed]

I said this 9 months ago and it still holds true today. The ONLY problem with pirates is the people playing pirates.

There is NOTHING the developers can do that will ever fix people.

Yes you can take away the ability for players with certain colors lose the ability to do certain thinngs such as cant enter port battles etc but TRUST ME when i say this, Nothing is going to stop those players from uniting together to achieve thier goals.

The biggest concern to me is the absurdly real to life HATRED some people have toward players who play pirate. All factions have the same basic chance to capture fight unite or do anything they want and nobody has ever had a concern over england or spain or US taking over but it aggrivates them to no end when a pirate does it.

As i a pirate i play as a real to history pirate and trust me the amount of hate mail i get is just the same as the people who hate pirates taking ports.

In the end i do hope pirates lose the ability t capture ports not because i dont think pirates could have or should not be able to own a home but because the map being black takes away targets for me to hunt.

And once these guys who you dont like taking over the map swap to US probably all unite to take over the map as the US then youre gonna be mad abut that. I cant speak for pvp1 but on pvp2 its a small handful of very determined very organized very skilled players crushing everyone on the map.

Its almost like someone warned this would happen if we had no cooldown teleports. You can do anything you want to try and nerf the spooky pirates but you cant stop people from being people using a mechanic (no cooldown teleports ) to thier fullest ability.

The trouble with Scotland is its full od Scotts is what always comes to mind.

[KrakkenSmacken]

Its almost like someone warned this would happen if we had no cooldown teleports. You can do anything you want to try and nerf the spooky pirates but you cant stop people from being people using a mechanic (no cooldown teleports ) to thier fullest ability.

 

I know we disagree on this point, so I just wanted to comment that my "like" of your post did not include this particular view, just that the incessant bitching about pirates taking ports will simply shift to whatever nation is dominant, without the benefit of being able to complain about the color of the flag.

 

Teleporting ships and or goods, -> bad

Teleporting character/awareness, -> good.

 

Take away the TP of captured ships, the invincible "deliveries" system, and force the use of at the very least, AI on the open world transport of everything that needs to move, and many of the problems go away. Port hopping to keep ahead of a player escape needs to be planned in advance as outposts need to be set up and stocked with ships, rather than a quick AI capture and jump.

 

However if you take away the ability of players to use time effectively as they want, force them to be sea truckers, equals more players go away. 

 

I also think that with the new RvR mechanics a good deal of this jumping around for a fight will simply end regardless.  If you want to push national agenda, then you will have to push it in a specific area, and not be running all over the whole map.

 

Ironically, if you take ports from pirates they may even get worse than they are now.  Without a port capture agenda, all they will do is shift to being full time conquest trolls, helping, hindering or preying on every active combat area on the map.  

 

I bet the bitching goes up, not down, when pirates can effectively become a second large ally of whomever they happen to choose, in every war on the map.

Edited October 1, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[Mrdoomed]

I know we disagree on this point, so I just wanted to comment that my "like" of your post did not include this particular view, just that the incessant bitching about pirates taking ports will simply shift to whatever nation is dominant, without the benefit of being able to complain about the color of the flag.

Teleporting ships and or goods, -> bad

Teleporting character/awareness, -> good.

Take away the TP of captured ships, the invincible "deliveries" system, and force the use of at the very least, AI on the open world transport of everything that needs to move, and many of the problems go away. Port hopping to keep ahead of a player escape needs to be planned in advance as outposts need to be set up and stocked with ships, rather than a quick AI capture and jump.

However if you take away the ability of players to use time effectively as they want, force them to be sea truckers, equals more players go away.

I also think that with the new RvR mechanics a good deal of this jumping around for a fight will simply end regardless. If you want to push national agenda, then you will have to push it in a specific area, and not be running all over the whole map.

Ironically, if you take ports from pirates they may even get worse than they are now. Without a port capture agenda, all they will do is shift to being full time conquest trolls, helping, hindering or preying on every active combat area on the map.

I bet the bitching goes up, not down, when pirates can effectively become a second large ally of whomever they happen to choose, in every war on the map.

Ironically i also warned of that point about pirates. I said be careful what you wish for you may just get it.

Basically judging by the amount of complaints people have of pirates ganking or stalking or killing traders or new players etc people dont like that action. Just wait till there is 100 pirates on that have zero to do or focus on other than sailing around killing every player they fine.

Of course then people will say only let them sail small ships which means 100 pirates who can only sail ships big enugh to fight low level and new players lol.

Side note: i think a compromise on tje teleport system would be to allow port management teleports with no cooldown so you can do things at all your ports instantly but a 1 hour cooldown on physical teleports to keep one group from conquering the map. And really one hour is pretty lax. You can tp in sail a shoreline have one battle and your time is up.

Im used to the no cooldown teleports and use them to my advantage constantly so its not like i dont use them but they definitely keep me from exploring or sailing around or doing anything exept poping out looking around then moving on. Just sorta sucks but im over the teleport stuff now but definitely see it did what i was scared of.

[KrakkenSmacken]

Side note: i think a compromise on tje teleport system would be to allow port management teleports with no cooldown so you can do things at all your ports instantly but a 1 hour cooldown on physical teleports to keep one group from conquering the map. And really one hour is pretty lax. You can tp in sail a shoreline have one battle and your time is up.

 

 

That could be only a partial solution, depending on how the new RvR mechanics work to keep fights from drifting too far from hot locations.

 

The main problem I would find, was that as a pirate our guild would keep changing hot spots while I was off line. I would log in and be too far away to engage, or I would log in, find nobody, TP to manage a port and find myself stranded away from them when they did log in a couple of hours.

 

I would have no problem with a "physical" TP cool down, and no ship TP of any kind, with the following conditions.

 

• I could manage my ports remotely, with purchase orders and shipping orders, without having to travel to them.  Hell it would even be interesting if the orders had to travel on the OW, and reports come back, via AI travel, and have the possibility of even losing orders on route.  
• I could order ships to travel without my needing to sail them.  They hit the OW, take their chances with AI captains, and I lose crew limits until they dock, or crew/cargo/dura if they get caught.

 

As long as the trade/crafting goods logistical game is tied to my characters presence to get things done, I don't want some of those things to be sea trucker. Ironically due to the "deliveries" system in place, I have set myself up to reduce sea trucker as much as possible, and in the process have made 90% of my cargo transport impossible to interupt.  That's just wrong.

 

That said, in the same way that PvE server players don't want to have to deal with PvP, I want to minimize my time doing PvE work in order to get to the PvP.

[daHeld]

well, I guess that the bitching about pirates capturing ports is more intense than any nation doing so is because it's just so incredibly unrealistic.

No town in history was ever captured by pirates. Held for ransom for some weeks, sure. But captured for keeping? Not once.

 

On the teleport issue, I wholeheartedly agree with Krakken. It would make thing much more realistic. Additionally, captured ships we send away as prises to one of our outposts should go there on the open world. And deliveries should be able to be made from every port, not only from free towns. Maybe we could buy some kind of insurance to make up for possible losses.

[squedage]

i think with the raiding only there needs to be a way to say have the "loot" transported to an OP for free. That way you are not limited to what you can use in the ship your in. It would also need to have more mats for a reward then what is currently given or at least a larger verity 

[Mrdoomed]

i think with the raiding only there needs to be a way to say have the "loot" transported to an OP for free. That way you are not limited to what you can use in the ship your in. It would also need to have more mats for a reward then what is currently given or at least a larger verity

That would simulate the pirates having control of the port for a few days giving them time to ship stuff off.

Its all gonna be moot once pirates stop focusing on port capture and start massacring all other players and demand pirates be changed.

[maturin]

Its all gonna be moot once pirates stop focusing on port capture and start massacring all other players and demand pirates be changed.

Must be a funny view of the world from your 80% pirate server.

[KrakkenSmacken]

i think with the raiding only there needs to be a way to say have the "loot" transported to an OP for free. That way you are not limited to what you can use in the ship your in. It would also need to have more mats for a reward then what is currently given or at least a larger verity 

If raids let us hit the dock and take what we could carry or everything on the dock, especially "sold" and items still awaiting port consumption, there would be no need to have free loot transport.

 

Walking away with +2000 holds of Tobacco would be more than profitable enough.

 

I hate anything "free".  It smacks of some other failed mechanics.

[KrakkenSmacken]

Must be a funny view of the world from your 80% pirate server.

 

Yea it is, since at one point we only had one port left.

 

The only reason the pirates are so successful is that everyone else isn't, not game mechanics.  

 

The other irony of changing port capture for pirates will be that the port capture focused pirates will probably just shift en mass to another nation to continue playing that game, and wipe the board again, just with a different color.

 

It only takes a small amount of effort for the pirates to agree that for example the "Spanish" are also "pirates", and simply use that nation as the port capture arm of the pirate world.

 

Not really different than how pirates won't green on green, despite the mechanics that allow it.

Edited October 4, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[Mrdoomed]

Must be a funny view of the world from your 80% pirate server.

Its hardly 80% pirate lol. There are far to many pirates imho but because nobody listens to those of us that said allowing people to swap factions while keeping everything and all xp was a bad thing what do you expect.

Its only gonna get worse as time goes on whether its my evil server or your godlike chosen one server. Try hards only want to be on the winning team.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Mrdoomed

[Neverdead Ned]

I think that pirates should be excluded from trading and get all their resources from raiding or cap'ing traders. In order to make it a bit fairer, the drop rates for goods on pirate's prizes should go up considerably as should the materials from broken up ships.

[Mrdoomed]

I think that pirates should be excluded from trading and get all their resources from raiding or cap'ing traders. In order to make it a bit fairer, the drop rates for goods on pirate's prizes should go up considerably as should the materials from broken up ships.

Because everyone in the Atlantic knew who robbed a ship and exactly what he looked like ? Provided he let anyine live. They had satellite cameras on all ships and reefs to get a good picture of him to fax around the world.

I could go on but feel its not necessary.

[Jean Ribault]

I think that pirates should be excluded from trading and get all their resources from raiding or cap'ing traders. In order to make it a bit fairer, the drop rates for goods on pirate's prizes should go up considerably as should the materials from broken up ships.

 

 

I tend to agree that pirate as a choice should be significantly harder and a deliberate choice to be so for those that want a really hard challenge.  A number of ways to make it that way too.  Making it other than just another nationality would be a neat feature.

[Jacob Elston]

I dont think pirates should be excluded from crafting.

 

But Pirates sailing full 1st/2nd rate fleets that can content with Imperial Navies? .... Nah.

 

The Pirate faction should be more unique, they can only gain 1st and 2nd rates through capturing enemy ships.

 

Pirates can construct Pirate 3rd Rates which have more crew space for capturing larger ships.

 

 

As for ports, Pirates should be able to raid, but this gives them ownership of a port for X days/weeks (unless recaptured) allowing them to exploit its resources.

 

However, there should be a mechanic to prevent Pirates from loosing all of their ports without the ability to re-take and keep them, otherwise Pirates will, through the process of attrition, eventually loose all but their capital.

[squedage]

But Pirates sailing full 1st/2nd rate fleets that can content with Imperial Navies? .... Nah.

 

 

 

It can when over half our 1st rates we take off nationals

[Eishen]

Another option to help overall would be, make a new building called a foundry. 

 

Foundries will be VERY expensive buildings to buy and can only be in MAJOR ports, like nation capitals.   Pirates would not have one in their capital but with the amount of national capitals around them they shouldn't be to bad.

 

Cannons will only be produced from foundries.   They will require iron, copper, compass wood, precision parts, and iron fittings, cables and howsers, and blocks.    The size of the cannon will require craft notes.  

 

This will make cannons a bit more valuable and limit the massive problem of, go big or go home, on ships currently.

 

I encourage you to make a suggesttion topic on this.... as  comment in an old "pirate" poll seems out of place. and will probaly fly under the radar