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Patch 9.6 - Minor fixes

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About durabilities, and "items" to boost ships... Meh. I would get rid of them all. If feels as cheesy as potions to me.

If you want a ship to be fast, or to turn quicker, or to be more durable, choose the proper materials to build it. Give those woods, metals and canvases adequate properties and prices and let builders choose what they build with them. Trade time and proper resources for build quality and be done with it.

Then, when someone puts a good deal of holes in them, see them sink and do it again.

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The problem with player Ai fleets are not just part of portbattles. They are a problem in OW pvp too. A 3on1 turns out to a 9on1. And you are forced to use that fleets by yourself.

In my opinion player Ai fleets are nothing more like a parking assistant. Only why people can fight fleets that are 2 or 3 bigger then they don't make them good players. Like people are good in parking why they can use the parking assistant.

You learn more when you do the job by yourself.

 

In PvP, 3v1 shouldn't turn into a 9v1 because of AI fleets.

 

AI fleet should only turn 3v1 into 3v3 (that is AI fleets should only help solo player to attack or defend himself against 3 players/bots). 

 

When several players meet several players in a fight (such as in 2v3), their AI fleet should be disabled and stay out of the battle, in the OW.  

 

That way, (AI) Escorts would fulfill their very role : helping the very weak to attack or defend against a greater force, whatever he's a trader or a privateer. 

 

PS : Once again : No rank limit ; only AI Ship class limit (corvette or light frigate) and max ship number (3 maybe less).

Edited by LeBoiteux
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I am sure this was made to help new players get on their feet. Once they feel comfortable fleets are gone. 3 ranks is enough time to become good sailor.  

Agree completely Wind. I should of spelled out what I was thinking more and that is that I think Trader ships should be able to hire escorts no matter what their rank is. I actually don't like fighting ships hiring "escorts" at all. Helping the noobs is a noble effort though and so I have no problem with it but how many noobs have the funds in the first three ranks to hire them?

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  • You no longer can attack players of the nation in the vicinity of their capital. The "protected by Capital" area is reduced 2x times. 

 

Good stuff, It will allow new players to level up initially without having too much about being attacked by other nations. At the same time, the protected area was just too big, so this solves that issue too. My question is, will there still be defensive fleets or is this now a null due to not being able to attack at all within the set limits?

 

  • Due to popular demand fleets were disabled for advanced ranks. You can only use fleets during first 3 ranks. Max AI fleet ship level is cutter. If you feel this is wrong please be more vocal on the forums to protect features you love.

 

Popular demand? I've only seen a handful of VERY vocal people ask for the complete removal of the fleets. The vast majority enjoy them, with the exception of them being used in PvP fights. They are a little annoying at times (when fleeting) as more often than not end up getting in the way, however they come in handy when soloing multiple targets. You asked me to be vocal if I feel this is wrong, well here I am being vocal.

If anything, I would like to see the fleet size and ship range expanded. As a Rear Admiral I should be allowed to have 2-3 frigates as my fleet at the very least. It would also be very nice to have the ability to hire trader ships and put cargo in them, I know the delivery system is in place but some people still want to move goods the old school way.

 

 

  • Carronades max possible operational distance increased to 500 meters from 250

 

Awesome! I am so glad you made this change, as you know Carronades actually had a very good range. The old model was very much like kicking a football off the deck, this one is MUCH better! :D

 

 

  • Bot composition tuned (pavels can be only sailed by players) Max bot ship is 74-3rd rate
  • Durability numbers changed - 1st rank 1, 2nd rank 2, 3rd rank 3.

 

I think I can see what you are trying to do here... You don't want everyone sailing around in 1st rates after 2/3 months of playing. An ocean full of 1,500 Santisimas would not be fun at all. However, I really think you are going about this the wrong way. Ships should be 1 durability across the board... No exceptions other than maybe the basic cutter you get as a newb (which could have unlimited durabilities for all I care).

Ships should be expensive to build and take a long time to produce. As you know very well I suggested a system that addressed both of these, you shot it down with some rather weak arguments (My favourite was that more 9 women won't make 1 baby faster than 9 women making 9 babies in relation to more workers being used to build a ship, it gave me a good old chuckle). You also made the point that to have 4 unique timers per player would not be possible due to server load *cough* current cargo delivery system *cough*. But anyway, moving onwards.

 

 

Overall some good changes, and some not so good changes, but progress none the less. However there are still some major issues that need addressing... Teleports, entrance timers on Port Battles, Port Battle flip mechanics (this needs HUGE changes). So chop chop now, get working :P

Edited by B4NGSPL4T
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AI fleets. Why are people expecting to be able to "solo AI fleets"? If I am solo (as I often am) I look for targets I know I can handle on my own. What is wrong with that? Once you get comfortable AI fleets become an issue. That is why their removal is being called for by so many people. Imaging the World Cup. A beautiful balanced game is being played. Now imagine each player on the field has 2 dogs helping him. Players are tripping over dogs, dogs are chasing the ball around etc. It's still a soccer game, but the dynamic has changed and everything is messed up. That's what AI fleets are doing to open sea Pvp, and that's why so many hate them. I don't care if trader ships hire escorts, but warships on the open sea should not have AI hires.

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Popular demand? I've only seen a handful of VERY vocal people ask for the complete removal of the fleets. The vast majority enjoy them, with the exception of them being used in PvP fights. They are a little annoying at times (when fleeting) as more often than not end up getting in the way, however they come in handy when soloing multiple targets. You asked me to be vocal if I feel this is wrong, well here I am being vocal.

If anything, I would like to see the fleet size and ship range expanded. As a Rear Admiral I should be allowed to have 2-3 frigates as my fleet at the very least. It would also be very nice to have the ability to hire trader ships and put cargo in them, I know the delivery system is in place but some people still want to move goods the old school way.

 

We used to have something like you're asking for.  People were sailing around with 3 or 4 Santissimas in their fleets.  It was completely ridiculous.  Even with just Snows, it was still ridiculous.  I could be assured that, as a solo player, I had to make sure I had two snows with me or else I'd be at a disadvantage at any rank up to nearly the top.  People want higher level fleets because they make the game easier.  You can take on bigger targets and multiple targets, and you can assure yourself a win against larger groups of AI.  This isn't how a multi-player game is supposed to work.  While I know STO, and SWTOR have gotten people used to the idea that they can have pets with them to help them out, this wasn't how Captains of the age fought in large part.  You were either out there on your own, taking on all comers, or you were tasked to team up with other Captains to work together on a task.  This isn't a single player game - there are other Captains out there that you can team up with if you want to take on larger prey.  If you want to solo, then just like the majority of ships at the time, you are out there by yourself.  AI Fleets for warships are a crutch.  They're great for new people to assist them in getting their feet underneath them, but they're a mess at higher levels.  The only repeated reason I keep hearing to keep them is so "I can take on AI fleets solo".

 

They're easier, so people like them.  They should perhaps be available up to Snow in the PvE server, but for the PvP server, I'm adamantly against expanding them beyond what this patch allows.

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Once you get comfortable AI fleets become an issue. That is why their removal is being called for by so many people. Imaging the World Cup. A beautiful balanced game is being played. Now imagine each player on the field has 2 dogs helping him. Players are tripping over dogs, dogs are chasing the ball around etc. It's still a soccer game, but the dynamic has changed and everything is messed up. That's what AI fleets are doing to open sea Pvp, and that's why so many hate them. I don't care if trader ships hire escorts, but warships on the open sea should not have AI hires.

This analogy is perfect.

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On the next update please provide more that a 5 minute warning. Was in battle with brand new connie & unable to disengage in time ... new Connie dura 2 !

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AI fleets. Why are people expecting to be able to "solo AI fleets"?

Why not ? If they like that ? Why solo players shouldn't be able to fight as part of a (AI) fleet ? It's a game : if some like this feature ?

But maybe those who are the more vocal against AI fleet are not only PvPers but also and above all Guild members...

That could explain why they don't want solo player to have AI fleet.

If I am solo (as I often am) I look for targets I know I can handle on my own.

But when you have an AI fleet, you're not on your own...

What is wrong with that?

Nothing. It's your choice. But what's wrong with the opposite preference ?

Edited by LeBoiteux

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Why not ? If they like that ? Why solo players shouldn't be able to fight as part of a (AI) fleet ? It's a game : if some like this feature ?

But maybe those who are the more vocal against AI fleet are not only PvPers but also and above all Guild members...

That could explain why they don't want solo player to have AI fleet.

But when you have an AI fleet, you're not on your own...

Nothing. It's your choice. But what's wrong with the opposite preference ?

As stated above it messes up the balance of the game for everyone else.  Both sides of this discussion are trying to protect the way they want to play, and it is up to the developers to decide which way they want to support.  Does this game want to be an awesome pvp action game, or does it want to be an awesome fleet management pve game with regards to AI fleets?    It really can't be both ways.  One messes up the other unfortunately (unless it was only allowed on the PvE server of course). 

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Both sides of this discussion are trying to protect the way they want to play, and it is up to the developers to decide which way they want to support. 

 

You're right about who decide but you can grant me that I'm ready to make concessions as I :

- restrict AI fleets to a solo player that is alone on one side of a battle (against several opponents, whoever they are : players or bots),

limit AI Ship class to corvette or light frigate, 

- limit the ship number of a fleet to 3, even less.

My only request is : no rank limit.

 

What are your concessions ?

Edited by LeBoiteux
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You're right about who decide but you can grant me that I'm ready to make concessions as I :

- restrict AI fleets to a solo player that is alone on one side of a battle (against several opponents, whoever they are : players or bots),

limit AI Ship class to corvette or light frigate, 

- limit the ship number of a fleet to 3, even less.

My only request is : no rank limit.

 

What are your concessions ?

 

-Allow them for Traders

-Allow them on the PvE server

-Allow them for brand new players who are still learning the basics.

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Our concession is merchants of any rank can hire escorts.

Once one wsrship hires them, all warships doing pvp have to as well. The stupidity of AI in battle is a minor issue compared to the problem of the inevtable escalation of AI fleets.

Ship to ship combat is interesting as it is. AI fleets are just a needless crutch at higher ranks.

Edited by GrapeShot
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-Allow them for Traders

-Allow them on the PvE server

-Allow them for brand new players who are still learning the basics.

What do you call a brand new player ? Somebody who's getting at lvl 3 ?

This takes some days. When he is at that lvl, he isn't a brand new player anymore ?

Sailing with square sails is a lot more difficult then the first ships.

Even after severall months sailing, I have to think over each time how this works to turn.

I'm always slower then AI and in those circomstances always running after them and they are much quicker in place to shoot on me.

So you may be sure that in those circonstances even only one ai ship helps.

 

Good wind

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What do you call a brand new player ? Somebody who's getting at lvl 3 ?

This takes some days. When he is at that lvl, he isn't a brand new player anymore ?

Sailing with square sails is a lot more difficult then the first ships.

Even after severall months sailing, I have to think over each time how this works to turn.

I'm always slower then AI and in those circomstances always running after them and they are much quicker in place to shoot on me.

So you may be sure that in those circonstances even only one ai ship helps.

 

Good wind

 

 

I sympathize deeply.  A game cannot be designed around the struggles of one person though.   I am colour blind, which makes some things hard for me to read in this game.  I would love it if certain colours in the game could change, but I have to accept that this is a problem of a small percentage.

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What do you call a brand new player ? Somebody who's getting at lvl 3 ?

 

At the moment rank progression is faster because of testing purpose. With EA it will take longer to get  rank 3. So yes a new player is someone who is getting lvl 3 .

Edited by z4ys

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-Allow them for Traders

-Allow them on the PvE server

-Allow them for brand new players who are still learning the basics.

 

One will let readers evaluate who makes more (real) concessions...

My concessions allow any PvPer to fight in team play without dealing with any AI fleet. Yours don't allow a 4th-rank PvP solo player to have an AI fleet... 

 

PS : the PVE server isn't a garbage where you can throw away all the features that you, user of the PvP server, dislike without tuning them and think it over.

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One will let readers evaluate who makes more (real) concessions...

My concessions allow any PvPer to fight in team play without dealing with any AI fleet. Yours don't allow a 4th-rank PvP solo player to have an AI fleet... 

 

PS : the PVE server isn't a garbage where you can throw away all the features that you, user of the PvP server, dislike without tuning them and think it over.

 

The entire problem many of us have with AI fleets is their impact on PvP play.  The PvE server is a perfect place to put fully functional AI fleets because the bots don't care how many ships you've brought to a fight, nor who controls them.  You can sail the PvE server with an entire flotilla of Santissimas without impacting anyone's gameplay.

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The entire problem many of us have with AI fleets is their impact on PvP play.  The PvE server is a perfect place to put fully functional AI fleets because the bots don't care how many ships you've brought to a fight, nor who controls them.  You can sail the PvE server with an entire flotilla of Santissimas without impacting anyone's gameplay.

 

As long as two players can't fight one the same side against Bots.

However, it may impact the Economy of the PVE server and make bother some PvPers as/if you can export XP and/or gold from one server to another.

Beside, I thought both servers were to have the same features.

Edited by LeBoiteux

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As long as two players can't fight one the same side against Bots.

However, it may impact the Economy of the PVE server and make bother some PvPers as/if you can export XP and/or gold from one server to another.

 

Export of Gold is an issue - I don't think that should cross between servers.  As to XP being shared, I personally don't think it matters all that much.  Someone who got to maximum rank solely against AI and using Fleets is going to be no match for anyone who got the same rank on the PvP server.

 

As to two players fighting on the same side against bots and the economy, if Fleets really don't affect the non-fleeted player's gameplay and economy as you assert, why would that matter?

 

Edited to add:

In fact, the PvE server might make a PERFECT place to send new players for a few levels.  You have a low to no-consequences environment where you can learn to sail sail and shoot at AI to your heart's content.  If you allowed a one-time per account "gift" of a brig and some decent cannon for her on the PvP server for when a new player decides to switch over, you'd have a much nicer new player experience.

Edited by Henry d'Esterre Darby

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Tunings:

 

  • Martello towers armor class increased

 

 

I think this was a good change

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I think this was a good change

 

Except, as posted on page 4 - they did so for shallow water port battles, which may have made them too hard.

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Except, as posted on page 4 - they did so for shallow water port battles, which may have made them too hard.

You got me there I haven't been in shallow PB's since this patch , But for the deep watter ones it works out

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As to two players fighting on the same side against bots and the economy, if Fleets really don't affect the non-fleeted player's gameplay and economy as you assert, why would that matter?

When did I assert that ? I know you're honest. So ?

I have only been in favor of AI fleet in the very following case (as I stated in this thread) and whatever the server :

You're right about who decide but you can grant me that I'm ready to make concessions as I :

- restrict AI fleets to a solo player that is alone on one side of a battle (against several opponents, whoever they are : players or bots),

limit AI Ship class to corvette or light frigate, 

- limit the ship number of a fleet to 3, even less.

My only request is : no rank limit.

I've never been for 1st-Rate Fleets or for high numbers of ships in an AI fleet, whatever the server. You'll find the contrary on older threads.

 

I've never said AI fleets didn't have any impact on Economy. Just said we should think it over before throwing Big AI fleet to the PVE server.

 

I've never said AI fleet didn't impact 2vn, 3vn... gameplay, that's why I wrote : "I restrict AI fleets to a solo player that is alone on one side of a battle (against several opponents, whoever they are : players or bots)". That means that the 2 in "2vn" wouldn't have the support of their AI fleet, only the "1" in "1v2" or "1v3" would.

 

On the contrary, I've tried to find a compromise between solo players and Guilds members in order to let both enjoy the game. 

Edited by LeBoiteux
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