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Small Vessels and the New Player Experience

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The idea:
We need more small ships to help the new player experience.  These ships are a lot smaller than everything else, and so hopefully several could be made without taking up a bunch of time.

 

Feel free to add more ship plans
 
My idea is this.  We get more small vessels:  luggers, ketches, hoys, etc, 2-6 or so guns.  The new player starts out as a Midshipman captaining one of these (maybe the hoy).  This is in a tutorial screen where the player is taught the controls and basics of how to sail the ship.  After this, the player, who is on coastal patrol, gets attacked by pirates or comes across a smuggler, who is also in one of these small ships, and the player is then taught the basics of combat and boarding.  The player wins, gets sent to Port, and the tutorial explains the port screen.  The admiralty then gives the new player an 8 gun ketch or lugger.  The new player now has a larger and better ship, a step up in the world and a sense of progress.  From there the admiralty charges the new player to leave port and hunt down smugglers that are in the area around the starting location in large numbers (1-2 ships per fleet at max).  The player hunts these down, gets xp, gold, sends the ships back to port or to the admiralty, and gets money and xp and admiralty points built up.  On promotion to Ensign, the admiralty recommends the player broaden their experience.
 
66ft (Dutch???) Hoy 
Dutch hoys were 2 masted (as opposed to British hoys which were usually single-masted).  The British bought 19 66ft 4 gun (3 carronades + 1 24lber) hoys from the Dutch in the 1790s that were involved in some battles.
M49jtjB.jpg
 
Hayling (1760)
British Single-masted hoy
QmadJAS.jpg
 
Eclair (1795)
British 3 gun Lugger
Wpycls2.jpg
 
Le Coureur
8 gun Lugger.
VZDkfGa.jpg
 

Cherokee (1774)

6 Gun Ketch

lVqHK5W.jpg

 

Fly (1752)

8 gun ketch.  Green ink is modifications that were added to make it ship rigged.

2B17Y69.jpg

 

Shark (1732)

8 gun ketch

qK42Sp1.jpg

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Guest raat

This is a great idea actually.  And would make shallow areas of the map like the Bahamas a lot more populated.  So much of the map is dead, largely because of the player count, but also because there's no real reason to go to certain areas of the map.

 

If players were forced to spend more time in the smaller ships, not only would that make shallow water areas more enticing, but also has the indirect benefit of making getting a larger frigate or a SoL that much more rewarding later in the game.

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A good idea. I also think small ships are a lot of fun to play as well as useful in large parts of the Bahamas.

 

Raatha -- we think alike regarding the Bahamas. :)

Edited by GrapeShot

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French barque longue "La Belle"


(Trader and exploration ship)


1680, 54 ft, 6 guns.


 


01.jpg


Source http://modelisme.arsenal.free.fr/artdumodelisme/La%20Belle/index.html


 


Plans and information : 


http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4686-french-barque-longue-la-belle-1680-with-plans-updated-6215/


Edited by LeBoiteux
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There are a couple of smaller armed ships in the website that i used as a source for my previous posts if you are interested.The problem is that there is almost no chance of finding any plans for them because most of them were made by memorizing the lines and the specialties of each ship,especially in Greece.Although the models are pretty accurately made based on books.Let me know if you want me to post them.They are mainly medditerenean styled. :)

Edited by Sella22

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First one is called Mistiko(Secret in Greek) because it was mostly used for raids,piracy,landings and carrying messages.They weighed around 20-30 tons and they were about 14 meters long.

 

The armament varied:4 small cannons(im guessing 6 pounders)+ 2 small bow cannons or instead 2 swivel guns at the bow.

 

 

Images:

photo%20boats%20konhy%20359%20%CE%B1%CE% 

 

photo%20boats%20konhy%20361%20%CE%B1%CE%

 

 

 

photo%20boats%20konhy%20371%20%CE%B1%CE%

 

 

perialos.blogspot.com+mistiko+d.maras1.j

 

 

5d106a69bc6746a0ce2ebca1879c30e6.jpg

 

 

9e44c342822e26fac2a5bf325f72d51a.jpg

 

d1116259f388555e238374a0426b4500.jpg

 

 

 

bc840ff3e27fcd18dbdaee571e50e7ba.jpg

 

 

0092ca92eaa11fb0843d74467e921943.png

 

 

2e23ea48c1f3a70b5d62f005ecbaa1ba.jpg

 

2a0f1b88897e8bbe46bb2890a6c8ab77.jpg

 

76a34d52d52945790a6757d493848e2a.jpg

 

ce29fd8d81a4cff4d17b941372c327b7.png

 

 

 

I have more but i need to translate them a bit  and do some research first.I will keep posting them from time to time.

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We should absolutely have a lugger, not just for historical reasons but for pure aesthetic interest. As unique as any xebec.

 

PotBS was excellent in regard to small vessels.

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If you click on the links of the names of the ships, it will take you to the British Maritime Museum database of them.

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Speaking of mediterranean ships and galleys :

 

French Galley "La Fleur de Lys" (1690) 

(studied by G. Delacroix)

 

La Fleur de Lys was an ordinary galley of the French galley corps under Louis XIV. 

 

galere_rouge.jpg

 

Monograph with plans and pics

http://gerard.delacroix.pagesperso-orange.fr/galere/plaquette-e.htm

http://gerard.delacroix.pagesperso-orange.fr/galere/plaquetteA4.pdf

 

Edited by LeBoiteux
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French lugger Le Coureur (The Runner), 1776

 

66 ft, 8 guns

 

coureur-01.jpg

Source : http://b.rimlinger.free.fr/images/coureur/coureur-01.jpg

 

History :

Together with the frigate La Belle-Poule (1765),

Le Coureur was engaged in the first naval combat of the American Revolutionary War on 17 June 1778.

 

Plans and monograph :

http://ancre.fr/en/monographies-en/50-monographie-du-coureur-lougre-1776.html?search_query=coureur&results=4

See OP : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7326-small-ships-and-the-new-player-experience/?p=137916

 

Sources :

http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=19238

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Coureur

 

Pics :

http://b.rimlinger.free.fr/coureur01.htm

Edited by LeBoiteux
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I would also like also at beginning if dutch 'captains' get a 'small' dutch ship, french a french construction... and so on. Nearly for all Nations (and we chose Nations) its possible. Clear, NA is still 'under construction' and not a polished game, but not only as far away goal, more than a 'should/must be' as soon as possible to create. Same for all ship-types. Not only ww2 or ww1 games should have their 'real' national gear.

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I would also like also at beginning if dutch 'captains' get a 'small' dutch ship, french a french construction... and so on. (...) Same for all ship-types.

There are pros and cons.

It'd give each nation a special flavor.

But it'd give Devs lots of work. And some would be redundant. Besides, IRL, ships were captured, reused and duplicated by the enemy. Some ships were designed or built by foreign shipyards. Ship architects travelled... And moreover, in NA, if we were to play only one character or one nation (as I think we will), I'd really hate not to be able to sail this or that ship just because of my ingame nationality. Just my opinion  :).

Edited by LeBoiteux

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Sure, its a lot work, and NA is still in more early development phase. Anyway every 'Nation' absolutely same equipment? Then i don't need Nations, only playerbased guilds as factions. Why designing Nations if its only a phrase (or its only satisfying player-patriots)?

Starting with a 'special' ship and have also later special ships does not mean that a dutch captain cannot sail a french-built ship. But building a ship in a dutch harbour should mean designing a Nations-design. We don't need so called historical or modern Nations if there are no single 'rules' for those. I am not dutch but if i chose dutch i want also play as dutch and not only because we must chose a faction.

But again, its much work to design ships, it is not designing new gameplay, its a diligent but routine piece of work, no weeks of puzzles and brainstorming, more and only converting existing plans to virtual 3-D.

Edited by Theuerdank

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A Sacoléva (or Sacolève)*

(62 ft, early XIX-th century)

 

That's a very common (even now) and old type of small coaster used in Greece and Turkey.

No gun,  but the plan is so interesting... See the high stern. For The love of curiosity  ;).

For NA fishermen  :D and newcomers  ;).

 

D1V54JW.jpg

Source : http://mnm.webmuseo.com/ws/musee-national-marine/app/collection/record/8941

 

prs91-342.jpg

Source : http://www.panteek.com/Paris/pages/prs91-342.htm

 

One can read 1835 on the plan, but it may be the date of the drawing (by frenchmen in voyage in Greece), not that of the building.

Finding by Wagram : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/user/14746-wagram/ Thx !!!

____________________________

(*Sorry, I don't know the english term.)

Edited by LeBoiteux
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Whoa, that raking mast is crazy.

 

And I didn't know of any large sprit rigs in the Mediterranean. 

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The design in general is way older than the date on the plan.It actually can be traced back to the byzantine times.

 

Some more pictures:

 

Here is one with the Greek-Ottoman flag

 

ShipPhoto_01_BS.jpg

 

%CE%A6%CE%A9%CE%A4%CE%9F%CE%93%CE%A1%CE%

 

P9070015.JPG

 

 

And here is a picture with sail plans used on traditional ships.If you recognise any and know the english naming please share it because i only know the names in greek.

traditional_boats_32.png

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I can't characterize all the sailplans, but (1) and (3) have lateen sails. (3), (4) and (5) have gaff sails. (11) has lugsails. The mainsail on (7) and (10) are sprit-rigged. The sail on (8) is an early bermuda or marconi rig.

 

(12) is a typical schooner and (13) looks like a 19-th century brigantine. Otherwise, the single-masted rigs could broadly be called sloops, and the two-masted rigs are ketches, yawls or shallops. The tiny triangular sail on the stern of (9) is a marconi sail, set on a jigger mast. (7), (9) and (10) have square-rigged topsails.

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And here is a picture with sail plans used on traditional ships.If you recognise any and know the english naming please share it because i only know the names in greek.

traditional_boats_32.png

A french lexicon with pics on NA french forum (it can help people to communicate with each other  :))  : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/3297-références-diverses-et-variées/?p=98579

Edited by LeBoiteux

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Number 9: http://www.naftotopos.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=263:tserniki-06&catid=128:wsm-tserniki&Itemid=550〈=el

 

A french lexicon with pics on NA french forum (it can help people to communicate with each other  :))  : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/3297-références-diverses-et-variées/?p=98579

 

Well that basically explains everyting!Much obliged.

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Here is also the french name of the sails from top to bottom (on the pic) :

- voile latine

- voile  au tiers

- voile à livarde

- voile à corne (plus fléche) pour un gréement aurique

- voile à corne (plus hunier) pour un gréement aurique

- voile carrée

- voile bermudiène

Edited by LeBoiteux

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