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Patch 9.3 - Durability changes

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Does this mean your modules are gone when losing a fresh SoL?

No, only if you loose it, as long as you dont loose it you will be fine.

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[...]

 

moreover they need add dura for modules too, i sudgest 5 dura 

- that will prevent from people keeping their yellow one when they just have 1 dura left

- make use of green, blue, pink modules usefull because of being cheaper and people have to choice if it's worst it to put yellow modules on a cerberus or if just blue one are enought .. etc

 

[...]

I like the idea of modules having duras.

 

 

Does this mean your modules are gone when losing a fresh SoL?

Yes.

Edited by Brogsitter

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In regards to the 1 dura Sols I think it would be better if this only applied to 1st rates as constantly replacing a simple 3rd rate would be quite annoying and a waste of resources. At the same time 1 dura 1st rates make sense as they are the biggest and best ships in the game and should be used sparingly. Also if you were to sink or be captured in a 2nd or 3rd rate (or even 1st rate) during a Trafalgar then what is the point of even going in if you know that you are likely to die and lose the ONLY dura on your Sol? I personally think that Sols in Trafalgar's will prove to be very problematic in the future unless the devs make it so that you cannot lose duras in a Trafalgar battle or small battle. ;)

 

I think the Trafalgar and Small Craft events need to be handled separately from Open World.  I should be able to participate there for rewards that benefit me only in the organized Event system, which should work a lot like Sea Trials 1.  Let people get their 1st Rate fix in the closed event system, and not try to balance Open World to keep that system running and give everyone a 1st Rate.  You're absolutely right, however, in that you'll not see a lot of rates in Trafalgar with this change - it is something that will need to be addressed down the road.

 

A side benefit of the 1 dura thing is that Clanned Up players will have a huge advantage over non Clan players - think about it.

 

Now instead of a BIG Effing Hammer - they are just a Regular Hammer - who can make the most Hammers?

 

Clanned players will always have an advantage over solo players.  This is the nature of teamwork and a sandbox.  By not allowing every Tom, Dick, and Harry to easily own a First Rate, you make the smaller ships more common and competitive - you de-emphasize the requirement that you have a First Rate to contribute and do well.

 

Nah, with these changes casuals will have plenty of fun still with frigates and lower, with previous system it actually shooed away casuals like me who didn't have 24/7 time to grind for rank and 1st rate to become competitive when everyone was sailing around in sol's solo like it was call of duty on sails (with 5 duras/respawns).

Also, frigate trafalgar revival!

 

Well said Kaos, exactly my point.

 

Who said players will own , all rates? what if player has frigate and worked hard and got 1st rate, next day he lost it in pb. You can say goodbye to that player.

 

Don't sail what you can't afford to lose.  This is a common mantra of sandbox games out there.  I don't buy/sail anything that is impossible for me to replace without rage quitting. Players that play that way are likely better off playing something more arena based.  Again, if there aren't a lot of 1-3rd Rates sailing around, the need to have one yourself is far less - you can do great with a frigate, which is more affordable and easier to replace.

 

I propose 1.5 Dura for SOL's ----- you can fight and win all you want, but if you lose your ship is returned to home port and all you get to do with it is remove the cannons and mods and then scrap it.

 

The lucky chap who beats you gets a nice 1 dura SOL.

 

Easy Peasy

Mr. Magnum has identified the biggest unintended consequence of this change - it will be impossible under the current system to sail a First Rate and keep your modules.  Module durabilities or some other system will need to be implemented considered if this new durability scheme is kept.   Personally, I think we need module durabilities regardless of whether or not this scheme is kept, but that's another topic.

Edited by Henry d'Esterre Darby
Edited (strikethrough) to reflect input below by Admin.
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What a lot of people are assuming is that the moment you build a ship it is lost... well i dont know about you guys but i have not lost a durability on my 3 week old victory, a lot of people have not lost durabilitiess or a few amount, because it only has 1 durability doesnt mean it has a timer of self destruct within 1 minute, how long the ship lasts you will depend on your skill... Please people, get that, things dont magically get destroyed in this game(well usually, there can be bugs), plan your engagements, run from fights you cant win(this will stop suiciding...), a lot of you people just want an arcade game it seems, and i get that, but this isnt that.

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plan your engagements, run from fights you cant win(this will stop suiciding...), a lot of you people just want an arcade game it seems, and i get that, but this isnt that...

...attack only if you have superior numbers, plan your gaming time so you only log in when everyone is sleeping, never engage in 1vs 1 because even if you are very good player you will have a probability of at least 30% to loose your ship, never jump into a port battle if there it at least 1 defender. Be strategic, this is not an arcade game.

 

P.S. sorry for the bitter exxagerating irony, not intended to be personal.

Edited by Nathaniel
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Well regarding all the opinions, the pros the cons and so one what do u think about this:

 

Completly remove the durability system and grant 5 times more labor hour for crafting.

 

What do u think. At least we get it more realistic.

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...attack only if you have superior numbers, plan your gaming time so you only log in when everyone is sleeping, never engage in 1vs 1 because even if you are very good player you will have a probability of at least 30% to loose your ship, never jump into a port battle if there it at least 1 defender. Be strategic, this is not an arcade game.

 

P.S. sorry for the bitter irony, not intended to be personal.

 

It will end up in a gank fest :D

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...attack only if you have superior numbers, plan your gaming time so you only log in when everyone is sleeping, never engage in 1vs 1 because even if you are very good player you will have a probability of at least 30% to loose your ship, never jump into a port battle if there it at least 1 defender. Be strategic, this is not an arcade game.

 

P.S. sorry for the bitter exxagerating irony, not intended to be personal.

I understand the sarcasm but i dont know if you noticed, what usually happens? the british flip the danish ports at night, the danish flip the british ports at day, people run away from battles if they are not outgunning the enemy, people allready dont defend their ports because people attack ports when there is no one to defend... all your arguments dont hold any ground because it allready is like how you think things will become.

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Mr. Magnum has identified the biggest unintended consequence of this change - it will be impossible under the current system to sail a First Rate and keep your modules.  Module durabilities or some other system will need to be implemented if this new durability scheme is kept.   Personally, I think we need module durabilities regardless of whether or not this scheme is kept, but that's another topic.

 

It is an intended consequence. Upgrades should be lost sometimes.

 

Several statements

  • We all want ships of the line are symbols of power 
  • We all want lineships to be rare and precious
  • We don't want to see solo Santisimas roaming freely
  • Sinking enemy ships of the line becomes important in long term conquest plans; trading 5 frigates for a sol becomes not a loss but a victory
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I am frankly stunned by the 1 durability thing. Is this going to assist promoting PVP? I think not; its now too risky to PVP in SOL unless you have a huge numerical advantage. Is this going to assist crafting? I think not, why bother grinding to get to a level that you can produce an exceptional ship?  Is this going to motivate people to continue to grind to get higher rank. I think not, there is now not much point getting to commodore or above. So what is the point of this?  I cant see one. Its a huge step backwards just when I thought there was forward progress.

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with current battle timers and broken armor( 6pd fully penetrate sols now) it is as broken as it is. Olav if you are so good try taking fully upgraded sol into traffalgar. it can stand up to 3-4 doubles broadsides so good luck at it. This change is terrible. As of now it is all up to difference in numbers so yeah.... even less pvp for me, and we all know you are doing less pvp olav than pagan pete so you arent a person to say a thing bout sols durra

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It is an intended consequence. Upgrades should be lost sometimes.

 

Several statements

  • We all want ships of the line are symbols of power 
  • We all want lineships to be rare and precious
  • We don't want to see solo Santisimas roaming freely
  • Sinking enemy ships of the line becomes important in long term conquest plans; trading 5 frigates for a sol becomes not a loss but a victory

 

 

Good to know that that is an intended consequence.  I fully support your other statements and love that a solution is being sought for these issues.  Thanks!

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...attack only if you have superior numbers, plan your gaming time so you only log in when everyone is sleeping, never engage in 1vs 1 because even if you are very good player you will have a probability of at least 30% to loose your ship, never jump into a port battle if there it at least 1 defender. Be strategic, this is not an arcade game.

 

P.S. sorry for the bitter exxagerating irony, not intended to be personal.

Pretty accurate description of OW experience so far even with 5 durabilities, let's not pretend like it wasn't like this already.

 

It will end up in a gank fest :D

 

 

Gank or be ganked is already the norm of OW if you haven't noticed and are actually testing OW at the moment.

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I am frankly stunned by the 1 durability thing. Is this going to assist promoting PVP? I think not; its now too risky to PVP in SOL unless you have a huge numerical advantage. Is this going to assist crafting? I think not, why bother grinding to get to a level that you can produce an exceptional ship?  Is this going to motivate people to continue to grind to get higher rank. I think not, there is now not much point getting to commodore or above. So what is the point of this?  I cant see one. Its a huge step backwards just when I thought there was forward progress.

Because if someone brings a santissimas and victories to a port battle and you only have frigates, it is a guaranteed win for the victories and santissimas, simple power creep will promote the use of these big ships, however them being risky to use will make them to only be used in the state of war and for port offences/defences, read the arguments made earlier int the thread, i will not repeat everything that has been said both against and for this system.

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I understand the sarcasm but i dont know if you noticed, what usually happens? the british flip the danish ports at night, the danish flip the british ports at day, people run away from battles if they are not outgunning the enemy, people allready dont defend their ports because people attack ports when there is no one to defend... all your arguments dont hold any ground because it allready is like how you think things will become.

Yes, and that's exactly the reason while the game should give people MORE incentives to fight Port Battles with max numbers in prime time and restrict SoL access through other means (a few ways for that stated above). Hell, even PotBS managed to get people fight 24vs24 battles (with the same fear holding off PvP in small engagements however).

 

A ship should be hard to get, but that shouldn't ever mean you decide not to play when you could.

 

Stating that something already is bad ("let's not pretend like it wasn't like this already") is in no way a reason to make things worse.

Edited by Nathaniel

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I am frankly stunned by the 1 durability thing. Is this going to assist promoting PVP? I think not; its now too risky to PVP in SOL unless you have a huge numerical advantage. Is this going to assist crafting? I think not, why bother grinding to get to a level that you can produce an exceptional ship?  Is this going to motivate people to continue to grind to get higher rank. I think not, there is now not much point getting to commodore or above. So what is the point of this?  I cant see one. Its a huge step backwards just when I thought there was forward progress.

 

It will turn line ships into carefully hoarded resources, just as they were in real life.  That said, it's hard NOT to bring your lineships to a port battle if you know the other side has done so.  It's hard NOT to expose your lineships to flip a port if you suspect your enemy will contest it.  You're right, it will remove the urge to just roam around randomly in a 1st rate for random PvP fun, but that's not how those ships were ever used in history.  They were always part of a fleet, they were always assigned to the most serious needs (blockades, large-scale actions with enemy fleets), they were not used flippantly or risked on a solo run for laughs.  You're right, I might never pass Commodore because I have no urge to sail something that large - but you can bet SLRN, TDA, etc. will place an emphasis on ensuring they have Captains that can utilize these vessels and, as a group, supply the resources to purchase/craft and repurchase/craft as many as they can reasonably support while still ensuring they can field enough smaller vessels to defend them.  This change adds HUGE meta to the game - and a sandbox lives and dies on the metagame.

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Yes, and that's exactly the reason while the game should give people MORE incentives to fight Port Battles with max numbers in prime time and restrict SoL access through other means (a few ways for that stated above). Hell, even PotBS managed to get people fight 24vs45 battles (with the same fear holding off PvP in small engagements however).

 

A ship should be hard to get, but that shouldn't ever mean you decide not to play when you could.

What iamtrying to point out is the durabilities dont matter, other incentives are needed, the 1 durability in that regard is not a downside for that but is a massive upside in terms of strategy and economy.

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I think there should be a difference between third and first rates. 
Eg. 2 Dura's for a third rate and 1 for a first rate. 

 

Other than that i like where this is going. 
In general we will end up using Frigates a lot compared to before. 

 

I fully support this patch and the changes it's brought. Hopefully we will soon be able to test it with a proper amount of players! 

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This is really a nerf of the British and Americans, or an unintended nerf of PvP, or at least a nerf of Crafting Hours.

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This is really a nerf of the British and Americans, or a unintended nerf of PvP, or a an least a nerf of Crafting Hours.

Read the previous pages... because it is not a nerf of pvp, in matter of fact it wont change...

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It will turn line ships into carefully hoarded resources, just as they were in real life.  That said, it's hard NOT to bring your lineships to a port battle if you know the other side has done so. 

 

In real life, yes. In the current condition of the game, you will just say, "why, to hell with it" and either not come at all or come in a captured trashy SoL without upgrades. Of course this COULD change if defending ports becomes a lot more profitable and strategically important but then we first should see some systems that increase the incentives for people to fight for their ports dramatically and only then, when we see the numbers go up, trying to reduce the amount of SoLs. I agree SoL's should be a lot more precious and rare but the meta for precious and rare SoL's is not in place yet.

 

2OlavDeng2

That is also an answer to your "PvP won't change because it should be improved on other fronts" argument.

Edited by Nathaniel

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Well, i think it needs to be looked at in a grander scheme of things.

 

As i said earlier:

Durabilities currently are a case of security, people dont want to lose good modules or items.

It is not a case of making them too expensive, its a case of a player being unwilling to accept the risk-reward of that 1 dura 1st rate ship.

 

this seems to be the biggest problem most people have with this system.

Not only that, but people have the mind-set that they always HAVE to sail the best ship possible whenever possible.

This attitude needs to go, allow me to enlighten you why:

 

First of all, make all ships have 1 durability.

Second of all, make crafting ships take RL days. (Frig 4 days, connie 9 days, santi 15 days)

 

There is nothing wrong with sailing a fine trinc, 2-3, with just fine and common upgrades. When you encounter another player, he will likely have a similar ship.

What kind of ship? A fine trinc, 2-3, with just fine and common upgrades, A.K.A. an expendable ship.

Whenever you encounter a person who is WILLING to take the risk-reward of sailing his exceptional trinc, 3-5, with all exceptional modules he is either to be rewarded with an edge over players in expendable ships.

Or, on the downside, he is to suffer the risk and consequences of losing it.

 

For example, if you are defending your capital against a raid from another nation, you would bring you A-game ship. Whenever you are fighting over a trivial outpost, no need to go with expensive gear, unless you are willing to accept the risk-reward.

 

Again, this would result in emphasis on lighter ships, since they are cheaper and faster to build. SOL's will still be accesable, yet expensable and time consuming.

 

Any suggestion to increase the durabilities of 1st rates and 3rd rates is just an attempt to bypass the risk-reward aspect of the game.

Same goes for the durabilities of modules. Modules drop frequently from fights, in such quantity that i regulary have to sell exceptional modules in order to keep my warehouse clean.

Edited by SteelSandwich
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Read the previous pages... because it is not a nerf of pvp, in matter of fact it wont change...

 

PvO (Player vs. Offline Player) ------ is not PvP.

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In real life, yes. In the current condition of the game, you will just say, "why, to hell with it" and either not come at all or come in a captured trashy SoL without upgrades. Of course this COULD change if defending ports becomes a lot more profitable and strategically important but then we first should see some systems that increase the incentives for people to fight for their ports dramatically and only then, when we see the numbers go up, trying to reduce the amount of SoLs.

 

Fact of a matter, the worst victory should still be very competetive with the best victory... i agree there probably needs more incentives for port battles, but that will come, pvpand port battles wont change with the amount of durabilities, it is ignorant to think so in my opinion, people dont care wheter it is their last durability or they have10 left, they dont want too loose any durability, but if the situation calls for it people will be willing.

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