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American Ship Collection (With Plans)


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The plans for both frigates look identical? Sister ships?

 

No they are not. I just made a mistake and posted the same plan twice. This is the Mohawk. I had a plan in better resolution but unfortunately i cant find it right now. Maybe somebody else can provide you one.

 

0N3oxti.png

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No they are not. I just made a mistake and posted the same plan twice. This is the Mohawk. I had a plan in better resolution but unfortunately i cant find it right now. Maybe somebody else can provide you one.

0N3oxti.png

Are Great Lakes ships viable to put to sea? How much different are the hull forms?

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Are Great Lakes ships viable to put to sea? How much different are the hull forms?

 

Hullform-wise, lakers are  fine, albeit a litttle shallower than most frigates of that size. The problem they would have out at sea is the ships are designed without any water storage (since she's floating on a fresh water lake, they just lower a bucket). That goes for any of the lakers, up to and including the ships of the line built there.

 

That isn't the Great Lakes frigate Mohawk though, that was from the War of 1812. The plan you're quoting in your link is the Revolutionary War-era Massachusetts Privateer Mohawk, which was captured by the British in 1782. She was later sold from the RN as a merchant/privateer in 1783, captured by the French in 1801, and survived until 1814, probably one of the last surviving American Revolutionary War ships. Another surviving one (the last Continental Navy ship) was the USS Hancock, which was captured by the French as Iris in 1781, and was later hulked in Toulouse until the British evacuated the port and burned her in 1793.

 

Mohawk was small, only 95 feet there compared to the later Lake frigate which was 150 feet long. She had an armament of 20 x 6-pounder guns.

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Hullform-wise, lakers are fine, albeit a litttle shallower than most frigates of that size. The problem they would have out at sea is the ships are designed without any water storage (since she's floating on a fresh water lake, they just lower a bucket). That goes for any of the lakers, up to and including the ships of the line built there.

That isn't the Great Lakes frigate Mohawk though, that was from the War of 1812. The plan you're quoting in your link is the Revolutionary War-era Massachusetts Privateer Mohawk, which was captured by the British in 1782. She was later sold from the RN as a merchant/privateer in 1783, captured by the French in 1801, and survived until 1814, probably one of the last surviving American Revolutionary War ships. Another surviving one (the last Continental Navy ship) was the USS Hancock, which was captured by the French as Iris in 1781, and was later hulked in Toulouse until the British evacuated the port and burned her in 1793.

Mohawk was small, only 95 feet there compared to the later Lake frigate which was 150 feet long. She had an armament of 20 x 6-pounder guns.

Oh okay. Thanks for the info m8!

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Man, the frigate Mowhawk packed quite a punch, long 24 pounders on the gun deck with 32 pound carronades on the spar deck? Maybe it'd be too over powered for the game :(. Or we just make it extremely expensive to build?

Anyone have plans of her?

Edited by TheAmerican
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Man, the frigate Mowhawk packed quite a punch, long 24 pounders on the gun deck with 32 pound carronades on the spar deck? Maybe it'd be too over powered for the game :(. Or we just make it extremely expensive to build?

Anyone have plans of her?

 

I haven't seen any of Mohawk or any other big American laker, just the sloops Niagara and Saratoga, the brig Oneida, etc. They might be around though. There are several British plans I've seen, including a three-decker for the Great Lakes.

 

Her armament is the same kind as Constitution, so we already have a 24-pounder American frigate in the game. We could use some of the 12-pounder and 18-pounder American ships in-game, frigates and sloops alike! ;)

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I haven't seen any of Mohawk or any other big American laker, just the sloops Niagara and Saratoga, the brig Oneida, etc. They might be around though. There are several British plans I've seen, including a three-decker for the Great Lakes.

 

Her armament is the same kind as Constitution, so we already have a 24-pounder American frigate in the game. We could use some of the 12-pounder and 18-pounder American ships in-game, frigates and sloops alike! ;)

True enough!

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We could use some of the 12-pounder and 18-pounder American ships in-game, frigates and sloops alike! ;)

Constellation would fit wonderfully between the Constitution and Essex. A decent broadside with the long 18s and 32 pound nades up top, combined with good armor would've made her a good rival to the Trincomalee. I think she had a very similar scantling design to the United States class of frigates, so she'd be very beefy indeed. I wonder what speeds she could cruise at? Anyone know?

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Constellation would fit wonderfully between the Constitution and Essex. A decent broadside with the long 18s and 32 pound nades up top, combined with good armor would've made her a good rival to the Trincomalee. I think she had a very similar scantling design to the United States class of frigates, so she'd be very beefy indeed. I wonder what speeds she could cruise at? Anyone know?

 

She wasn't the fastest boat because her scantlings were those of a bigger ship, so she had some heavy hull weight. Chesapeake was worse about that, because she as built to smaller dimensions. We have the Royal Navy captain's report who sailed her back to England when she got captured and he reported she wasn't a very spectacular sailor. She also had buffeting problems in a following see because her stern had this really big overhang, so the water would pound against it. It's telling that the next generation of American ships like the Gurriere/Java class of heavy frigates had a much smaller, near vertical stern.

 

Other fun options could be, if we get a Lively-class frigate, a USS Macedonian skin for her, the aforementioned Constellation, New York, Philadelphia, or the John Adams before and after she got razeed. Either Constellation or Philly would be best for that role if we just got one, though. We have plans for both of those, as well as Chesapeake, New York, Boston, John Adams, (Essex of course), Macedonian, and the captured 6th rate USS Cyane (though Chapelle accidently got the 18-gun Bittern class 6th rate, not the proper and larger 22-gun Banterer-class one from a few years later).

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Talos, since you seem to be the resident know-it-all on American built frigates (and I mean no disrespect by that!), would you know exactly where to look to find the Algerian tribute frigate Crescent?  She was a thirty-two to thirty-six gun frigate (accounts vary) and built as small as possible.  Supposedly an excellent sailing ship as well.

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Talos, since you seem to be the resident know-it-all on American built frigates (and I mean no disrespect by that!), would you know exactly where to look to find the Algerian tribute frigate Crescent?  She was a thirty-two to thirty-six gun frigate (accounts vary) and built as small as possible.  Supposedly an excellent sailing ship as well.

 

I'll keep an eye out for it, but I haven't seen anything come up yet. I have the plans of the other ships, the brig Hassan Bashaw and the schooner Skjoldebrand, so I've been curious about it and idly looking. I'll keep looking!

 

None taken! I've been really into them the last few years and researching the heck out of the navy. Just spent the last couple days trawling through Library of Congress and Naval Heritage Command archives looking for interesting photographs. Found a bunch of good late 19th century  ones, like the old large sloops (~150 feet long) from the 1840s and a nice shot in much higher res of a photo of the tiny 3rd-class sloop USS Dale from 1838, which was a training ship in the 1890s.

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I'll keep an eye out for it, but I haven't seen anything come up yet. I have the plans of the other ships, the brig Hassan Bashaw and the schooner Skjoldebrand, so I've been curious about it and idly looking. I'll keep looking!

 

None taken! I've been really into them the last few years and researching the heck out of the navy. Just spent the last couple days trawling through Library of Congress and Naval Heritage Command archives looking for interesting photographs. Found a bunch of good late 19th century  ones, like the old large sloops (~150 feet long) from the 1840s and a nice shot in much higher res of a photo of the tiny 3rd-class sloop USS Dale from 1838, which was a training ship in the 1890s.

 

All I can find are vague descriptions all over the place as well as these various letters, though I can hardly make out the text.  Supposedly she was built with a poop deck that was out of style but still favored by the Corsairs.  Also pierced for 12lb guns but the previous link indicated she was supplied with 6lb and 9lb guns.

 

Length/Width/Depth

Edited by Haratik
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All I can find are vague descriptions all over the place as well as these various letters, though I can hardly make out the text.  Supposedly she was built with a poop deck that was out of style but still favored by the Corsairs.  Also pierced for 12lb guns but the previous link indicated she was supplied with 6lb and 9lb guns.

 

Length/Width/Depth

 

It makes sense, they viewed the height as a prestigious symbol. Even the schooner had a quarterdeck, which isn't that common.

 

http://imgur.com/a/E1CTj

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I had sent an email to the Turkish Naval Museum inquiring about any draughts they may have from the days of the Ottoman Empire (since apparently the Crescent, also called El-Merikane by the Turks, was considered an Ottoman vessel), but that was a few months before the attempted coup.  I sincerely doubt I'll get anything out of them for quite a while now.

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You might look into who has the Josiah Fox papers. He designed her so there might be some information there. Failing that, try the Library of Congress/National Archives.

 

Aye and perhaps see if anyone has intel on Colonel Hackett since he helped build her.  Unfortunately I'm hard pressed for free time.  Still, I can inquire.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Of those, the following have plans on Chapelle too:

 

Indepdence (Razee only)

Franklin (as designed and as built plans)

Guerriere/Java

United States (via President as-captured plans)

Constitution as built

Constellation as built

Macedonian

John Adams (not in Chapelle but I have a copy of it)

Cyane (but Chapelle put the wrong plan in, not the one the US captured)

New Orleans block ship

Hornet

Wasp (ii)

Frolic

Peacock (both original and rebuild)

Ontario

Erie (both original and rebuild)

Epervier

Spark

Chippewa/Saranac (possibly, unnamed plans that match them)

Oneida

Saratoga

Niagra

Lawrence

And various small gunboats, schooners, galleys, etc.

 

The two steam frigates listed are the abortive Demelogos by Fulton (New York) and the other an unstarted steam battery in Baltimore. Another was supposed to be started in Philly.

 

There are sail plans and additional spar dimensions through the book. The main spar dimensions in the back of the book are:

USS Albany, 1st class sloop, 1843 with ship rig, not bark

USS Argus, brig, 18 guns, 1803

USS Boston, frigate, 28 guns, 1799 (incomplete)

USS Boxer, schooner, 10 guns, 1831

USS Chesapeake, frigate, 36 guns, 1799 (two sets, 1800 and as captured by the British)

USS Congress, frigate, 36 guns, 1799

USS Congress, frigate, 44 guns, 1839

USS Constellation, frigate, 36 guns, 1797

USS Constitution, frigate, 44 guns, 1797 (spars dated 1803)

USS Cyane, ship sloop, 18 guns, 1815 (dimensions of 1818)

USS Delaware, ship of the line, 74 guns, 1817 (dimensions dated 1822)

USS Franklin, ship of the line, 74 guns, 1815 (dimensions dated 1817)

USS Grampus, schooner, 10 guns, 1821

USS Guerriere, frigate, 44 guns, 1813

USS Hornet, brig, 16 guns, 1805

USS Independence, raze, 54 guns, 1836 (incomplete, 1838)

USS John Adams, ship sloop, 18 guns, 1830 (dimensions dated 1835)

USS Lexington, storeship, 1840 (dimensions dated 1844)

HMS Macedonian, frigate, 38 guns, 1812 (spars and sails as taken off, 1818)

USS New York, frigate, 36 guns, 1800

USS Pennsylvania, ship of the line, 120 guns, 1837

USS Philadelphia, frigate, 36 guns, 1799 (extensive, from the records of the investigation into her loss)

USS Germantown, corvette, 1844

USS Jamestown, corvette, 1844

USS Plymouth, corvette, 1844

USS Portsmouth, corvette, 1844

USS St. Marys, corvette, 1844

USS Saratoga, corvette, 1844

USS Potomac, frigate, 44 guns, 1822 (dimensions dated 1839)

USS President, frigate, 44 guns, 1800 (two sets)

USS Prometheus, hermaphrodite schooner, 1814

USS Revenge, schooner, 1807

USS Raleigh, frigate, 32 guns, 1776

USS Syren, brig, 16 guns, 1803 (dimensions 1807)

USS United States, frigate, 44 guns, 1797 (dimensions dated 1807 and a set from 1815)

USS Vincennes, 2nd class ship sloop, 18 guns, 1826

USS Vixen, brig, 12 guns, 1804 (dimensions dated 1806)

USS Wasp, ship sloop 16 guns, 1806

USS Yorktown, 3rd class ship sloop, 16 guns, 1838

Hassan Bashaw, Algerian tribute brig, 1798

USS Peacock, ship sloop, 18 guns, 1828

USS Washington, revenue brig, 1846

 

 

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