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French Corvettes Collection, 6th Rates (With Plans)

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That´s our Cherubim ;)

At least the 3D model it is based on.

Stern looks slightly different though. 

 

frig04-1024x640.png

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La Palme

French Corvette

(1744-1748)

 

85,5 x 22,8 x 10,6 (pieds du Roi)

12 guns firing 4-pdrs

 

gSh0y2d.jpg

 

Built at Brest (France) by Joseph-Louis Ollivier at the age of 15. He will also build among others L'Amarante (1747) : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7682-french-corvettes-collection-6th-rates-with-plans/?p=140019

Biography (in French) : https://troisponts.wordpress.com/2012/05/20/nouvelle-monographie-la-corvette-lamarante-1747/

 

Building features

- hull with quite a flat bottom and substantial tumblehome,

- no forecastle,

- upper part of the hull is low above the waterline,

- displacement : 265 tx,

- general design is modern.

 

Sources : Boudriot, La Créole, 1993, p. 16-19.

 

 

Thx to Sella22 !

Edited by LeBoiteux
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On 10/22/2015 at 6:44 AM, LeBoiteux said:
On 10/22/2015 at 6:36 AM, Surcouf said:

12-guns (4 lbs) Corvette

copie_11.jpg

 

20-gun (6 lbs) Corvette

copie_12.jpg

Does anyone know the name and specifications of the 6pdr corvette on the bottom? to me her bodyplan looks like a cross between a 'true' v-shaped hull like Forfait's Seine-class frigates,  and the fairly straight and smooth  transition in shape in the ends as seen in La Pomone of 1785/HMS Endymion 1797(though the midsection has much greater deadrise than that 24pdr frigate design). Judging by the bow decorations, this corvette predates either frigate. 

Also, 

Does anyone have any more complete plans or additional info on the corvettes designed by Forfait? Obviously the Unite class(HMS Surprise) is well documented, and I see the bodyplan of his Romaine-class Fregate-Bombardes and the Etna class corvettes are included in the summary of french corvette development. Was the Etna class deemed slow because they were designed to carry a mortar? Or were they satisfactory performers? were there later large corvettes designed by him or his disciples? (Tellier, pestel, etc) Her lines do look a bit fuller than the much larger seine, but significantly finer than the Romaine or Unite classes. A plan was posted in another thread which appears to be the etna class Ceres of 1795

http://imgur.com/GpRkcZ0

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_corvette_Cérès_(1795)

Edited by Captain Armstrong
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I would love so much to see one of those magnificent flush deck three masted corvette in game,  did any of those could fill the gap between the cerberus and the surprise ? That would be awesome, but there is also room between snow & merc, or niag/Hrattle & cerb too.

Edited by Baptiste Gallouédec

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On 11/16/2018 at 4:07 PM, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

I would love so much to see one of those magnificent flush deck three masted corvette in game,  did any of those could fill the gap between the cerberus and the surprise ? That would be awesome, but there is also room between snow & merc, or niag/Hrattle & cerb too.

  • For the smallest Corvettes, part of the answer (in terms of broadside weight) is here and here with some explanations in each OP.
  • For the biggest ones, see also here (especially, during the Restoration period, 1814-1830 : La Créole...) .

However, about the gap between HMS Cerberus and HMS Surprise, French corvettes were light ships whose armament get heavier and heavier in the course of the XVIIIth century from, say, 6 x 4-pdr in 1700  to 24 x 9-pdr in 1794. The Cerberus is a frigate of 1758 ; the Surprise a French heavy-corvette of 1794 armed by the British as a light Frigate. In NA timeframe, better to look for light frigates (whatever their nationality) to fill in this gap.

btw, French L'unité with 24 x 9-pd + 6 x 6-pd could be a nice addition : here.

However, IMHO, if French Corvettes were to be added in the game, the following two ones of the mid-18th century and whose plans are very-well known would be the ones representative of the French Corvettes of the 18th-century :

  • A Corvette of mid-XVIIIth century with 12 x 4-pdr (maybe replaced in-game with 12 x 6-pdr ?) : here, here or here.
  • La Panthère (1747), later renamed HMS Amazon, actually a light frigate with 20 x 6-pdr : here.

@Angus MacDuff I hope it also answers your question 🙂

PS : btw Admin calls French frigate La Renommée (1744) a corvette, as from  a viewer of 1805, a 9-pdr three-masted ship with 30 guns, built in 1805 would have been called a corvette. However, she partly fills the gap between the Cerberus and the Surprise, doesn't she ?

Edited by LeBoiteux

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I want HMS Jester (from the novel Jester's Fortune).  A Revolutionary French 8Pdr Corvette that start life as Sans Culottes and Renamed Jester when captured.

Edited by Angus MacDuff

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It is my understanding that some french corvettes were even fitted with 12lb or even 18 lb guns, a 18-20x 12lb guns corvette could be interesting , this could make a good counter to the hercules in the shallow

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45 minutes ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

It is my understanding that some french corvettes were even fitted with 12lb or even 18 lb guns, a 18-20x 12lb guns corvette could be interesting , this could make a good counter to the hercules in the shallow

Maybe you refer to the Revolutionary programme of 1793 led by engineer Forfait ? It planned to build heavy corvettes carrying up to 14 x 48-pdr guns, a furnace for heated shots and a 12-pdr mortar. Built in 1793-96, those corvettes actually carried 20 x 24-pdr, instead of the 48-pdr. Other smaller corvettes were also built with 16 x 18-pdr, 20 x 18-pdr or 24 x 12-pdr guns and still a 12-pdr mortar and a furnace for heated shots. Etc.

However, this programme was a total failure. Corvettes are small ships made to be fast and carrying a light armament, not to be floating batteries.

According to Boudriot (La Créole, p. 30), using a mortar and heated shots on corvettes were more dangerous for the French sailors than for their enemies. Thus, those innovations were abandoned without being ever used. And the armament of those corvettes were replaced with a more normal one. Even then, those ships were disliked, being considered as  too heavy.

Surrounded by threatening European royalist neighbors, the French Revolutionaries certainly thought that over-arming some of their corvettes was a good idea. But, it was an aberration (1).

Another example of that kind of arms race by overarming Corvettes is the building still by Forfait (ca. 1794) of heavy corvettes with 24 x 8-pdr and 6 x 4-pdr, such as L'Unité, then captured by the British, renamed HMS Surprise and refitted as a light frigate with 38 guns, the very ship that is in game. But this time, Forfait's project was more viable. 

NB : discussion and Admin's comment here.

________________________

(1) btw, at the same time, French Revolutionaries also built more standard Corvettes, ie with 20 x 6-pdr guns or 20/22 x 8-pdr guns.

Edited by LeBoiteux

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I was thinking about the class Serpente "Bacchante" or  "Geographe".

You talk about the Etna class i think ?  Deemed Failure or not in history is not the question in game as we have a seaworthy HMS ontario (snow) and a salted water Niagara. British used the Etna class corvettes they captured even if they refited them with 9lb gun as anyone will be able to do in game.

 ps: it also seems like none of the Etna class were captured while having the 12" mortar , it may have been in plan but quickly forgeted past the firsts sea trials. Captain James Brisbane's stated  after capture that Mignonne was a "remarkable fast sailing Ship Corvette". She carried sixteen long 18-pounder guns.

Edited by Baptiste Gallouédec

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Now all that remains is doing the research on the availability of the plans and on the finally-used armament of the corvettes of the Revolutionary Programme, such as La Romaine (1794), L'Etna (1794), La Vulcaise (1794), La Serpente (1795) or La Fraternité (1793).

Edited by LeBoiteux
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On 10/18/2015 at 8:04 PM, Malachi said:

the Etna class was designed by Forfait (...) as a smaller version of the Romaine-class.

Indeed. Interesting to know that those 24-pd 'corvettes' of the Romaine-class was considered as Frigates in their time and thus are registered as such in the Catalogue des bâtiments à voiles of the Archives de la Marine. Their dimensions (slightly bigger than the contemporary 12-pdr frigates, such as in-game La Belle Poule, 1765) certainly explain it : 140 x 36 x 17,9 (French ft).  

Edited by LeBoiteux

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Thx to @Malachi, I updated the post above with this detail of the stern of the French corvette Chevert, built in 1759 and renamed HMS Pomona after capture :

thBFKjX.jpg

The name of the ship (Chevert) comes from François de Chevert, a General of French King Louis XV, who was awarded by the Royal and Military Order of Saint Louis whose motto  can be read on the stern of the ship : "Bellicae Virtutis Praemium" (Reward of wartime courage). The British plan maker made a little mistake in Latin, writing "Virtutius" on his plan.

 

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