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Provisions affecting Skill/Morale of Crew


Provisions  

95 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like a system like Provisions to be implemented in game?

    • Oh yeah absolutely! I'd love the thought of my crew members suffering from malnutrition as they fix the sails and load the cannons with their skeletal fingers and dried out lips puckering for fresh water. Perfect idea!
      70
    • A horrible idea! I'm a Captain of a mighty warship! Handling logistical capabilities of food and water is none of my concern! I prefer to think of my crew as Damned Souls from Davy Jones Locker or something. It's a game damn it!
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I almost never stay out longer than 10 days in normal gameplay. Looking for fights means bouncing from port to port along the coast. Only trading and exploration voyages take longer than that.

 

And pretty much every warship could store three months of fresh water, with at least another month of food.

 

 

Also, essential ship's stores are salted meat, bread and rum. Not expensive or difficult-to-produce items by any means. Everyone in the game will just press the Buy Stores button and everyone will get the bonus. Unless you want a silly option to feed the foremast jacks filet mignon, in which case it is just extorting powergaming players for an unfair advantage in PvP.

I see what you are trying to get at and I understand that side too. The longest I've spent out in sea was at best 10 days, but that was very rare. However what if there could be some sort of mishap as during combat you probably lost a months worth of supplies due to a cannon ball ripping through the food storage. Maybe some disaster happened and about half of your provisions was tainted etc etc.

But that brings another point.

What makes you think that we'd be sailing on the coast line permanently?

What if the Dev's add quests or job boards that allows you to hunt or search for pirates at XX Coordinates out in the open sea. That could take days to find and even days to return.

Or maybe deliver supplies to this port and sailing there etc. Many variables that can be tweaked to have an interesting game play.

EDIT: As for PvP - all is fair in love and war. If you come ill prepared then you'll suffer the consequence. That's how it was back then as Napoleon invaded Russia and failed due to food shortage and disease. The harsh reality.

Edited by MrWhuping
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Just as the title states Provisions - ideally the premise of Food and drinkable water. Rations. Grog. Dried cow meat with flies buzzing around it within' the ships hold for a couple of months. Simply

sure it costs a bit with crafting, repairing ships and purchesing upgrades, with that said i sail a frigate, bough a connie, got a belle poule on order, third rate on order and i will have money left

Without Transatlantic voyages there's not much point simulating provisions.   It might be worth levying a steep upkeep charge on higher-level ships, though. Or better yet mandated downtime, which wo

@OP : You do know how to make unbiased polls !!!  :D

 

I'd vote for your first option, but you "forgot" part of the text. Just add it and I vote for you :

 

"Oh yeah absolutely! I'd love the thought of my crew members suffering from malnutrition as they fix the sails and load the cannons with their skeletal fingers and dried out lips puckering for fresh water. Perfect idea in theory but absolutely impractical in the current NA Caribbean OW where you can find restaurants around any corner !"  :) 

 

Current OW is above all a playground for naval combats where you must repair, buy or sell ships, craft, rest, trade and stop playing in ports as soon as possible, that is an OW made above all for short voyages...

Edited by LeBoiteux
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"Oh yeah absolutely! I'd love the thought of my crew members suffering from malnutrition as they fix the sails and load the cannons with their skeletal fingers and dried out lips puckering for fresh water. Perfect idea in theory but absolutely impractical in the current NA Caribbean OW where you can find restaurants around any corner !"  :) 

 

You see. I would've put that in, but there's a hidden godly power beyond human comprehension known as character limit lmao.

Otherwise it'd be just "Perfect idea...."

 

 

 

Current OW is above all a playground for naval combats where you must repair, buy or sell ships, craft, rest, trade and stop playing in ports as soon as possible, that is an OW made above all for short voyages...

But to get to this point, I've already understood that part. You can practically make it to a Free Town/Neutral Port/Nation Port within' 2-3 days at best. The game at its current state mainly focuses on the combat aspect and the authenticity of the products within' its, already said, fundamental state. However, my idea extends far from the current ALPHA product, but can be tested and applied (hopefully) in the future.

Even if ships of all class and function had to travel to the next port within' a couple miles in "accelerated momentum" they'd bring supplies regardless. But since we're at this point of - as you said "Short Voyages" - then essentially there'd be a decreased of time inherently to compensate the VAST distance of one ship from point A to reach point B of which we can clearly see. That'd mean, logically from my point of view, resources being used in a rapid motion to compensate the decrease in time = accelerated speed to reach ??? location.

If it took one day - great. Saved money.

Took a couple days - awesome. Good thing I brought provisions.

And in between maybe ran into a battle or maybe into a storm - which can have an influence upon the crew and the ship itself. There is a lil' amusement and reward in the little things that the current ALPHA state does not have - and I'd like that to be put in and most importantly TESTED.

Edited by MrWhuping
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Also everyone take care in remembering the Devs are planning to eventually expand the map so the provisions would make quite a bit of sense if you were on a voyage from the Caribbean to Africa for example in which case the provision system should definitely be implemented ;) 

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Also everyone take care in remembering the Devs are planning to eventually expand the map so the provisions would make quite a bit of sense if you were on a voyage from the Caribbean to Africa for example in which case the provision system should definitely be implemented ;)

- Are you sure that Devs are planning to expand the map right now ? Isn't it just an option for the future ?

- Are you sure that they are planning to model the whole empty Atlantic Ocean ? What about a second map (and server) for, say, Africa coasts, Europe or the Mediterranean Sea ?

- Are you sure an ordinary 4-7 week transatlantic voyage in the late XVIIIth century would create interesting situations for crew and stock management ?

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Craftable provisions and upkeep items for the ships will add to immersion and the economy. An economy that revolves around ship building only will get boring quickly and need a lot of artificial aid. There seems to be a view of upkeep 'punishing' players. I never thought of having to buy or harvest food in Skyrim or having to pay upkeep for my units in Total War series and >insert game name< ad infinitum, as 'punishment'.

 

This odd view handicaps the opportunities for realism and growth. Requiring upkeep daily would be annoying, even weekly, but say every 100 hours of on the water sailing would not encumber casual players and if every item needed in crew and ship upkeep had to be crafted by players, then it's a win for the economy and a win towards keeping Victorys and Santisimas from being the standard cruise around ship for everyone.

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- Are you sure that Devs are planning to expand the map right now ? Isn't it just an option for the future ?

- Are you sure that they are planning to model the whole empty Atlantic Ocean ? What about a second map (and server) for, say, Africa coasts, Europe or the Mediterranean Sea ?

- Are you sure an ordinary 4-7 week transatlantic voyage in the late XVIIIth century would create interesting situations for crew and stock management ?

 

1. Not right now, I am saying in the future when they do.

 

2. Possibly but I think there may be a chance that they will have it on one server as well.

 

3. I personally think it would with a few new game mechanics, but maybe we should leave that to a poll.

Edited by GoldenEagleLeader
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3. I personally think it would with a few new game mechanics, but maybe we should leave that to a poll.

Noooo, it isn't a matter of "yes" or "no".

We should be deeper thinkers and explore these interesting ideas much more in depth to see whether or not they are viable in NA and how they could be...

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Even small distances within' the Caribbean took, at best, a year to finish. If you wish to talk something realistic, many voyages when talking about Transatlantic Voyages - they took merely 1-3 years to finish, to and fro.

Even still the current NA in the Open World - you're just experiencing an accelerated momentum which is the case you have the intention of not needing provisions, but yet you're missing the point.

These "provisions" just don't count for your personal crew, but also counts for your fleet in total. I do believe with that mechanic in conjunction with this idea - it would give an even more reinforcing reason to have provisions. Regardless of distance from Charleston to Monte Cristi (Voyage took 10-12 days without going into a port with two Hired Ships). But realistically that voyage would've taken at least a year or less.

Source: Ponce De Leon Voyage in 1513 with Three Ships ended in 1514
 

 

Noooo, it isn't a matter of "yes" or "no".

We should be deeper thinkers and explore these interesting ideas much more in depth to see whether or not they are viable in NA and how they could be...

I don't know man - this is more of a self-perspective statement.

Let me ask you the question.

What do you think? Is this idea viable to NA and if not why? If so why?

Personally - I think this idea is a brilliant idea. Shave off a few sharp corners. Buff it a bit around the edges. Adjust a couple things and I think it'll be a worthy mechanic. It will provide players another sense of "task" - "Second Priority" to look after his/her crew. Maybe if a disease mechanic such as Scurvy and Black Plague starts to exist in NA then even more so to have Provisions, because you know - death was common even overseas by neglecting the limes.

I think it would be also interesting to have a "Supply Ship" for fleets too. Store all your provisions in there in sacrifice for a combat warship. - Maybe you don't have to worry about buying provisions all the time. Maybe just pay for upkeep of the Supply Ship. I dunno.

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Even small distances within' the Caribbean took, at best, a year to finish. If you wish to talk something realistic, many voyages when talking about Transatlantic Voyages - they took merely 1-3 years to finish, to and fro.

Even still the current NA in the Open World - you're just experiencing an accelerated momentum which is the case you have the intention of not needing provisions, but yet you're missing the point.

These "provisions" just don't count for your personal crew, but also counts for your fleet in total. I do believe with that mechanic in conjunction with this idea - it would give an even more reinforcing reason to have provisions. Regardless of distance from Charleston to Monte Cristi (Voyage took 10-12 days without going into a port with two Hired Ships). But realistically that voyage would've taken at least a year or less.

Source: Ponce De Leon Voyage in 1513 with Three Ships ended in 1514

 

 

I don't know man - this is more of a self-perspective statement.

Let me ask you the question.

What do you think? Is this idea viable to NA and if not why? If so why?

Personally - I think this idea is a brilliant idea. Shave off a few sharp corners. Buff it a bit around the edges. Adjust a couple things and I think it'll be a worthy mechanic. It will provide players another sense of "task" - "Second Priority" to look after his/her crew. Maybe if a disease mechanic such as Scurvy and Black Plague starts to exist in NA then even more so to have Provisions, because you know - death was common even overseas by neglecting the limes.

I think it would be also interesting to have a "Supply Ship" for fleets too. Store all your provisions in there in sacrifice for a combat warship. - Maybe you don't have to worry about buying provisions all the time. Maybe just pay for upkeep of the Supply Ship. I dunno.

i agree it is a good idea, but an important note, in the 17th and 18th century it definetly did not take a year for trips in the caribean, even sailing from europe to the americas did not take a year by that time.

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i agree it is a good idea, but an important note, in the 17th and 18th century it definetly did not take a year for trips in the caribean, even sailing from europe to the americas did not take a year by that time.

 

Just a quick reminder (no time to develop here...) : it took 2,5 months to Christopher Columbus in 1492 to sail across the Atlantic Ocean for the first time with a stop in the Canary Islands that lasted... 1 month. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus#First_voyage

Edited by LeBoiteux
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i agree it is a good idea, but an important note, in the 17th and 18th century it definetly did not take a year for trips in the caribean, even sailing from europe to the americas did not take a year by that time.

It may have not taken years, but it has taken months. That is 30-31 days. And an average British Sailor ate about at least 3,000-5,000 calories a day. Now with some quantum physic calculations with, let's say the amount of a crew on a Mercury (130) - 2 meals a day. So 2 x 130 = 260 meals a day. 30 x 260 = 7,800 meals a month.

Whoa but hold on let's also calculate the fleet ships you bring along. Like the shitty Cutters or something.

Cutters usually have around 46, but I like the solid 50 number.

2 x 50 = 100 meals a day. 30 x 100 = 3,000 meals a month.

So if you brought two with you - that's about 6,000 meals a month. Then add your meals for your crew that's a total of 13,800 meals a month for the fleet.

Someone better call Hornblower and snag some supplies from a plague infected port cause desperation.

I would also assume in between these voyages the crews foraged off the natural landscape for supplies as well before tapping into their own storage - considering how they manage to stay out so long in sea without everyone cannibalizing.

 

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It may have not taken years, but it has taken months. That is 30-31 days. And an average British Sailor ate about at least 3,000-5,000 calories a day. Now with some quantum physic calculations with, let's say the amount of a crew on a Mercury (130) - 2 meals a day. So 2 x 130 = 260 meals a day. 30 x 260 = 7,800 meals a month.

Whoa but hold on let's also calculate the fleet ships you bring along. Like the shitty Cutters or something.

Cutters usually have around 46, but I like the solid 50 number.

2 x 50 = 100 meals a day. 30 x 100 = 3,000 meals a month.

So if you brought two with you - that's about 6,000 meals a month. Then add your meals for your crew that's a total of 13,800 meals a month for the fleet.

Someone better call Hornblower and snag some supplies from a plague infected port cause desperation.

I would also assume in between these voyages the crews foraged off the natural landscape for supplies as well before tapping into their own storage - considering how they manage to stay out so long in sea without everyone cannibalizing.

 

a systen if provisions are important, but a voyage in the Caribbean at that time took a few days if you had the wind, by the time we are talking about the concern about having enough provisions for a voyage wasnt as much anymore simply due to how well we knew the area by this time and also due to improvements in rationing and such, even a trip across the atlantic would be of no concer, that being said the only reason i am for this system is too be another source for outcome when sailing the larger ships.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Historical precedence.  :)

 

I agree, as crew provisions and treatment were a HUGE factor on crew morale.

 

Many pyrates were actually mutineers who had marooned the officers, due to bad treatment. Also, merchant crews certainly would not fight for a captain who treated them poorly, often refusing to fight or even sail the ship when attacked!

 

Pagan Pete gives this a +3

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  • 3 weeks later...

Definitely a more fun and realistic addition to the game which would add yet more detail and choice for the player,albeit i think even this would have been at least a constant on any captains mind,having too feed and provision a crew and maintain moral would have been foremost in a captains mind.going into battle with a strong crew should be a fair accomplishment for any captain and what he should be striving constantly for?

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  • 1 month later...

+100 This is required, currently players often take the biggest ship they have on a trade run because the cost of running is low, now water and food should be very cheap but it will stop players using SOL's as scouts and give people reason to use Frigates and smaller craft.

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[...] this system would decrease the affordability of first rates promoting the use of smaller ships, im all for a provisions system, even if it doesnt give a debuff it would be a nice feature as i said, decreasing the viability of large ships.

 

In my opinion this would even be a better system to distribute players across the available ships than the current rank system, which promotes grinding and gives newcomers a bad first impression.

 

This concept works great in the game Starsector, for example. There each ship consumes supplies each day, bigger ships of course need more. So much more in fact, that going bounty hounting in a battleship will usually not return any profit, because one spends more money on supplies than one gains in bounty. This means that if one wants to hunt pirates, one does so in a ship that is appropriate for the task instead of the biggest, mightiest ship one can buy.

 

I can imagine the same working out great in Naval Action, with players choosing their ship based on the task at hand and first rates only being used if the reward (capturing a port for example) is worth losing money in the short term.

 

I may be biased though, since i despise any (progression) system that is based on grinding.

Edited by JP!
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I am personally in favor of this kind of system, I honestly don't think the rank thing is a great idea and creates a grindy feel to the game as you have to work towards the next rank in order to unlock the next tier of stuff. I'm sat with a ton of gold in the bank and nothing to spend it on until I grind my way to the rank that I require to spend it.

This is supposed to be open world, so why not open the possibilities? Instead of the crew being limited by rank, let the crew be limited by money and let the size of the ship you can sail be limited by the cost of running it and what the player can afford. This will greatly increase the emphasis on economy, trading, pillaging and then the driving force behind the game is GOLD! Much more like real life ;)

 

You should be able to hire crew like mercenaries, each crewman costs gold to hire. Every time you set sail you need to provision your men with supplies else their morale will drop and they may leave your crew, or they may fight poorly. Repairs on the ship should come from the economy, not by buying the kits from an infinite supply. If you want to repair your fir ship, then you should have fir planks on board for the carpenters to patch it with. The cannonballs you fire should be produced by the player economy, and a finite supply.

 

In short, players should be limited by how effective they are at turning a profit on the high seas, be it via trading, completing missions, pillaging, blockading ports or managing crafting. Money makes the world go around!

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Until they add "Officers" I don't think the idea of paying for Crewmen will come across till late in the game, but however that is another idea that can be implemented conjoined with provisions. However I disagree with removing the Grind Entirely. I agree on shortening it if these either ideas come alive. A little balancing here and there and I think we may solve this whole "grind" issue.

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I am personally in favor of this kind of system, I honestly don't think the rank thing is a great idea and creates a grindy feel to the game as you have to work towards the next rank in order to unlock the next tier of stuff. I'm sat with a ton of gold in the bank and nothing to spend it on until I grind my way to the rank that I require to spend it.

This is supposed to be open world, so why not open the possibilities? Instead of the crew being limited by rank, let the crew be limited by money and let the size of the ship you can sail be limited by the cost of running it and what the player can afford. This will greatly increase the emphasis on economy, trading, pillaging and then the driving force behind the game is GOLD! Much more like real life ;)

 

You should be able to hire crew like mercenaries, each crewman costs gold to hire. Every time you set sail you need to provision your men with supplies else their morale will drop and they may leave your crew, or they may fight poorly. Repairs on the ship should come from the economy, not by buying the kits from an infinite supply. If you want to repair your fir ship, then you should have fir planks on board for the carpenters to patch it with. The cannonballs you fire should be produced by the player economy, and a finite supply.

 

In short, players should be limited by how effective they are at turning a profit on the high seas, be it via trading, completing missions, pillaging, blockading ports or managing crafting. Money makes the world go around!

This post alone deserves it's own thread. Hits on EXACTLY every single point which is limiting the game!

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