Honour kill advancement tweak

[Crankey]

I like the introduction of the 'Honour Kill' system, but like many I think the release version should be modified somewhat. 

 

What is an Honourable kill.= Destroying or otherwise doing the most 'damage' to a ship of equal or greater strength.

 

Suggestion. Long Term.

 

The ship you are sailing should be of a suitable Rate to your RANK.

 

The targeted ship should be of an equal or higher rating than the SHIP you are sailing. 

 

In order for suitable ships to be available for this task, I believe at least 1 basic recipe ship should be available for each Rate. 

 

 

Players should have the option of using this basic recipe ship or a special drop recipe ship if they can build or have one built for them to use.

 

 

Temporary fix current build.

 

If insufficient rated ships are available in game to test this theory, then there are a few ways this can be rectified.

 

1) Provide a basic quality redeemable ship at each rank advancement of a suitable type per character. 

 

2) Temporarily move a ship into the basic recipe tree so that it can be built by more crafter's on reaching crafting level 'x'.

 

3) Allow undermanned ships of a higher rate to be able to accrue honor kills. (eg undermanned 74 instead of Constitution)

 

 

 

[Goodblue]

The targeted ship should be of an equal or higher rating than the SHIP you are sailing. 

 

So what does this mean when I sail for example a Frigate and attack 3 brigs, NavyBrigs or Snows and manage to kill all 3 of them? 0 progression? If that is the case then I'm not so sure if I like this.

[teatrader]

I don't like to HAVE to sail anything or HAVE to sink anything. Its putting constrictions on my freedoms as a trader

[Crankey]

So what does this mean when I sail for example a Frigate and attack 3 brigs, NavyBrigs or Snows and manage to kill all 3 of them? 0 progression? If that is the case then I'm not so sure if I like this.

 

Hardly a fair fight ? A Frigate should not be challenged by 3 brigs so therefore it shouldn't be classed as an equal/honourable opposition.

[Crankey]

I don't like to HAVE to sail anything or HAVE to sink anything. Its putting constrictions on my freedoms as a trader

 

A trader can trade at Midshipman level, if you want to be a trader you don't need to sink any ships at all.

 

An Honour system would be aimed at players wanting to progress through the Naval Ranks.

[maturin]

I don't like to HAVE to sail anything or HAVE to sink anything. Its putting constrictions on my freedoms as a trader

 

A large merchant ship (such as Gros Vetre) with a crew of 35 is perfectly historical, so no worries. 

[verseaux]

What is honorable in war guys?

To survive? To protect our friends? To destroy the most ennemies possible?

Sorry but in war only victory is important.

Doesn t matter what you ve done if you re dead or if your nation loose the fight.

This vision of honor is false to me, because its subjective.

If i can sink a snow with my frigate and avoid it to see my large fleet, am i Without honor because i fought for my country?

Put rewards on the head of pirates and privateer who chase weak targets, but don t avoid them to play as they want.

it will remove a lot of exitation of the game.

[marecek05]

Hardly a fair fight ? A Frigate should not be challenged by 3 brigs so therefore it shouldn't be classed as an equal/honourable opposition.

 

I disagree in principle. I would rather fight a trincomalee or constitution or even 74 in a frigate than 10 brigs. What is the exact number is debatable, but principle is not.

[Crankey]

Well guys, I'm sure the devs will come up with something, But suggestions on the theme/OP would be great.

 

Honour could perhaps be something that runs alongside level advancement with its own influence on the game rather than influence levelling. But atm we are at least looking for a solution to the devs current system. Short & long term.

 

Feel free to suggest variants or completely different solutions. Lets just give the Devs food for thought.

[marecek05]

Proposal:

 

I don't like an abstract notion of honor be tied to a mathematical equation. In this regard I like the system that has been implemented in many Mobas, that being the players that played with a person judging his character.

I imagine that after the instance players would be asked to evaluate players they were in battle with, which would accrue over time. There could be some rewards for being highly honorous, a.k.a. honour over 5000, either some upgrades, cosmetic stuff maybe even certain special ships.

 

It would also be visible to other players in the game.

 

In regards to be tied to specific ship, I like that aspect in testing, but it should be tied to damage, not specific ships. I.e. 50 000 dmg done to cerberus or higher in cerberus. If implemented in final game, there should be an option to pick a ship from several ships of similar rating.

[Laik]

Why not make it damage based - Sea Trials style? You would still look for roughly equal/better opponent for the most damage but you would also able to hit fleets composed of multiple lesser ships.

[Ojibwa_Wind]

This is stupid, get rid of it.

 The enemy in my few small large whatever needs to be attacked, if your weaker then me to bad, goes the same for me as well. Their is no honor in war. There were many  types of game play in here but now I see their is going to be one way and that is fighting only. WOW here we come. To bad this looked like it was going to be a fun game. 

[admin]

This is stupid, get rid of it.

 The enemy in my few small large whatever needs to be attacked, if your weaker then me to bad, goes the same for me as well. Their is no honor in war. There were many  types of game play in here but now I see their is going to be one way and that is fighting only. WOW here we come. To bad this looked like it was going to be a fun game. 

 

We already know that some players will want the below mentioned progression

• 1st tutorial battle - yacht
• 2nd battle instant promotion to HMS Victory and a personal marker with a adjustable number of enemies 

There was honor in the age of sail.

Lineships were not allowed to engage frigates even in heated battles unless fired upon by them.

[maturin]

The feature should stay around in some form or another.

 

But I can't imagine why I need to sail both a brig AND a snow. These vessels are just so similar in firepower. There's no reason a captain would need to prove himself on both. Sailing one ship in each rating would be more than enough.

 

The devs know which ships are really popular. There's no need to enforce usage of Constitution or Trinc. On the other hand, what if only 7 kills were needed in Cerberus, as opposed to 10 in Surprise?

[Sir Cloudsley-Shovell]

ts all a bit back to front.

I current am a Lt Cdr sailing a Suprise.I have more XP to progress to the next rank.So i now need to drop to a Cerb and get 10 Kills!I killed a Frigate with my Suprise and feel that should count as an Honour Kill and not get discounted as its not the Cerb!

[verseaux]

To me we need to separate two things :

 

The Rank (we already got it with the different ranks to manage a ship)  and the reputation of captains .

 

We need to work on the second element. Reputation regroup a lot of things, could be honor, but also a reputation of no mercy captain for a pirate for exemple. Could be very famous for the pirate community and gain respect because he sank or captured thousand of ships.

 

If we make it simple, we have the good side of the force, and the dark side of the siths ..each way give you bonus for something..and malus for other things..but each way is still a valide option and bring something to the game.

 

If a pirate got a terrible reputation of killers (You will call it "no honor"), why not it could have a bonus of morale for his crew in boarding (ennemy are afraid), but also a reward on his head, when a player sink him, there is an extra gold of 2000, like this he will be chased by everybody.

 

Its just an exemple, but its to show that we have to let some freedom to the captains behavior.

 

This is a pvp game, don't kill the essence of the gameplay, this is not bisounours world, there will be a pve server for that.

 

I agree with you admin when you say there was honor in the age of sail, but the most famous pirates where known for their cruelty too, making them legendary, the best fighters and soldiers in wars where also the most hated by the other side...

 

We need to think of a "reputation system" and not only honor system, because honor is just a point of view and just a part of reputation.

[teatrader]

What are all the reason why we need a honor kill advancement system?

 

Then maybe we can find another way to reach those goals.

 

This honor kill advancement system seems very forced to me and i personally do not like it one bit.

 

I would have hoped that the safe transportation of resources would be the drive-force behind conflicts. And in that way slow down everyones progression through the ranks.

[Ojibwa_Wind]

We already know that some players will want the below mentioned progression

• 1st tutorial battle - yacht
• 2nd battle instant promotion to HMS Victory and a personal marker with a adjustable number of enemies 

There was honor in the age of sail.

Lineships were not allowed to engage frigates even in heated battles unless fired upon by them.

Well first of that's not what I wanted. Pirates followed no rules on the sea's, They were in fact very cruel in their tactics both on land and at sea, No mercy rule. Maybe you can hold Nation's to an Honor system but expect Pirates' to do the same is ridiculous. i.e Black Beard and the crulest pirate of them all Black Bart Robert's. Who at first was capture and then turn into a Pirate after serving with a crew, He became a Capt. of the ship he was on when the original Capt was killed in Africa. Robert's was no Honor Pirate by any means. 

 

You want Pirates to be cruel in this game not pansies. Pirates are hunted here by all nations, we know this and accept this. Honor sir, no, Pirates' are loyal to no one.  

 

Respectfully submitted. 

[Prater]

Ok, yes, maybe pirates have a different advancement system and only go by XP.  That is the bonus of being a pirate.  There then has to be a downside.  Now that there are so many free ports there really isn't a downside.  So the pirate ranks should have less crew.  Only with several of the very best crew mods and gold crew space will a pirate be able to man a 74 at 100% and only if they are the highest rank.

 

 

Perhaps the amount of honor kills needs to be lessened for Nationals, but I don't know.  I am Captain (US).  I need to kill 10 ships in a Frigate and 10 in a Bellepoule.  All I have to do is hunt down 20 Frigates or lone 74s.  That isn't so bad, especially if I have carronades.  I shouldn't be able to speed level.

[marecek05]

Ok, yes, maybe pirates have a different advancement system and only go by XP.  That is the bonus of being a pirate.  There then has to be a downside.  Now that there are so many free ports there really isn't a downside.  So the pirate ranks should have less crew.  Only with several of the very best crew mods and gold crew space will a pirate be able to man a 74 at 100% and only if they are the highest rank.

 

 

Perhaps the amount of honor kills needs to be lessened for Nationals, but I don't know.  I am Captain (US).  I need to kill 10 ships in a Frigate and 10 in a Bellepoule.  All I have to do is hunt down 20 Frigates or lone 74s.  That isn't so bad, especially if I have carronades.  I shouldn't be able to speed level.

I agree on pirates with Prater.

It is not so bad to do it, but it is quite boring. I got demoted to capitaine de corvette and had to kill 10 frigs in cerbs. The kill itself is not difficult at all, I just sterncamp and grape it to submission in about 10-20 minutes. Then I have to find another lone frigate, as 2 are too much for me in a cerberus and there are no 2 and 1 cerberus fleets that I have seen. And repeat that 10 times. Really boring.

 

I would love to be able to engage a 2 frigate fleet or a 74, use my maneuverability advantage to do some damage and flee before the enemy can bear it's guns to me. Or to help in a larger fleet action. But I am penlized for such behaviour since, it is a waste of time that could have been spent sterncamping a frig.

I understand that I am a tester, but for the final gameplay the repetition in order to progress would be horrible....

Edited November 3, 2015 by marecek05

[Ronald Speirs]

Rather then Honour kill it should be a point system, the larger or harder the target/ ship class the more honour, xp or reputation received, thats a naval point of view, how would you work the pirate and privateer honour/ reputation? The idea is there just implemented wrong!!!

[Prater]

It really isn't an honor kill system.  It is a kill ships in this ship system.

 

I think that on level up, each player should be assigned 1 random ship they have to get kills in.  I am a US Captain(Post Captain), so I would be assigned a random 5th Rate (Trinc, Bellepoule, Frigate, any other ship with less than 350 crew that they add or any Premium 5th Rate I sail).  I wouldn't actually get the ship but I would have to get my kills in the ship type I have been assigned.  The XP requirement will be more than 30 kills so after I get my 30 kills I can sail any ship I want to get the remaining xp.

 

M. Cmdt/Master and Commander would be 20 kills in a randomly assigned Surprise, Renomee, Cerberus, or any 5th/6th rate they add or Premium Ship with less than 250 crew.

 

etc. for different levels.

 

This way we don't have everyone sailing the same two types of ships for each level.  It is random so we will see a wide variety of ships.

[Ronald Speirs]

It nice to have variety but there isn't to many ships to say its good variety atm, if there were 10 ships in each class then thats a good variety, we might see more people choosing different ships based on certain statistics but that will come in time once they start releasing completed models, i don't particularly like having to get the kills in ships i hardly like, i get the idea they are trying to go with i just rather being able to do what i want, i had to get 10 kills in a Cerb and it took half the day to find just 1 appropriate fleet to attack without getting smashed, was easier getting an enemy to spawn reinforcement so i didn't have to waste more time achieving the kills, it was hardly enjoyable getting the 10 kills and XP and after achieving the next rank i seen the next requirements, lets just say the motivation to play went out the window, plus with another wipe i hardly feel like wasting time in ships i don't enjoy. The idea could be more missions to gain greater XP by attacking certain targets or rate class, or like it is admiralty want you to test the surprise and get 10 kills or captures, rather then restricting the level up to certain ships. If they are doing this because they want us to use ships for testing purposes then maybe generic battles could be exactly like sea trials and we could pick them and uses gold mods and outfit and test different load outs in the battles, plus they could put on the forum to the community that they want to test these aspects this week and give feedback on your thoughts, but thats just my thinking on this whole debacle.

[azazel]

the kill system in itself is ok for me, what is not ok is that you are forced to use a specific ship for those kills.

 

if it would be "use any 7th rank ship and do X kills", i would have no problem, but instead we are forced to specific ships, which we might not like at all and then the game becomes a pain to play.

 

for me it already starts at the first rank. i am forced to use a cutter... I FU..ING HATE THE CUTTER, ever since he was in the game, but now i am forced to play it. on the other hand i loved the privateer, which is also a 7th rate, but the system does not allow me to use it for the honor kills.

 

right now this simple mechanic, paired with the problem of hours of searching for suitable targets completely kills every bit of fun i had in this game in earlier builds