Duplicating Bellonas

[Flavalicious]

I think its less exploiting then straight up duping ships, because you still have to craft and work for that 5 dura consti, how you use it, is really up to you, i dont think thats really on the same level as spawning ships from thin air. lol....

[Prater]

In my eyes this is really not an exploit, you lose ships, and have chance of gaining nothing...

So you have no point here (but thats my opinion ofcourse)

 

 

You realize I said possible exploit?  I was just showing it to admin just in case the devs consider it an exploit.  They said they would tie recipe drop to durabilities.

[admin]

 this seems to be getting swept under the rug IMO

 

I think you are mistaken. 

Topic is open, you are discussing this issue, there is no rug + we said we will clarify the issue after we finish with the patch.

What is your problem with our position again? I seem to be not able to understand your view due to language issues.

[Ned Loe]

I do not understand why it's so hard to fix it. Here is a solution:

 

Make NPC ships specs change after battle is over. This means in battle they will perform as usual, but after battle(npc boarded or battle is finished) is over they will be reset to 'useless' mode. 'Useless' specs mean players can capture ships , but ship stats and slots will be -50% of original in battle stats. Same for bonuses when breaking ship into parts. This will quickly change dupping and promote player driven econ. Even if player wants to sell captured 'Used' ship, it will be cheap and won't provide good coin.

 

Code structure for NPCs in battle example:

 

-Battle<Start<All<100% preset strength

-Battle<Boarding<Start<100%

-Battle<Boarding<End<50% after battle change

-Battle<End<All<50%

-Reward<Capture<5%

 

Ship 

 

-Captured<ShipCost<2%

-Captured<ShipParts<2%

 

vs

 

Player built

 

-PNew<ShipCost<100%

-PNew<ShipParts<60%

[Ronald Speirs]

I think you are mistaken. 

Topic is open, you are discussing this issue, there is no rug + we said we will clarify the issue after we finish with the patch.

What is your problem with our position again? I seem to be not able to understand your view due to language issues.

 

I think the topic was getting many mixed emotions and felt like nothing was going to happen to these people exploiting this mechanic, i guess lack of clarification thus far to if it was right and wrong and if they were allowed to keep their sudden net worth explosion from duplicating and selling or breaking up to get the recipe quicker was getting me worked up, can you blame me:P

[OlavDeng2]

I do not understand why it's so hard to fix it. Here is a solution:

 

Make NPC ships specs change after battle is over. This means in battle they will perform as usual, but after battle is over they will be reset to 'useless' mode. 'Useless' specs mean players can capture ships , but ship stats and slots will be -50% of original in battle stats. Same for bonuses when breaking ship into parts. This will quickly change dupping and promote player driven econ. Even if player wants to sell captured 'Used' ship, it will be cheap and won't provide good coin.

I disagree against this greatly, are you saying if i capture a brig it should be useless and i cant sell it for any cash? same with trader ships etc? this makes it even harder for new players, and it works against capturing ships, sure the current boarding meta is a bit redicelous but we shouldnt change it like this, it just simply doesnt make any sense to do it like this.

[Ned Loe]

I disagree against this greatly, are you saying if i capture a brig it should be useless and i cant sell it for any cash? same with trader ships etc? this makes it even harder for new players, and it works against capturing ships, sure the current boarding meta is a bit redicelous but we shouldnt change it like this, it just simply doesnt make any sense to do it like this.

Does it say no cash? It says small %.You will sell it for gold, but let's say to build price of brig is 25000, you should only get 500 or 2% of 25000 and 2% of parts when scraped or whatever devs set up from captured ship. If it's a player built ship then you get all 100% of ship cost and 60% cost of parts when scrapped or whatever devs setup. IF you don't agree then you are one of the duppers devs are looking for to ban. 

[OlavDeng2]

Does it say no cash? It says small %.You will sell it for gold, but let's say to build price of brig is 25000, you should only get 500 or 2% of 25000 and 2% of parts when scraped or whatever devs set up from captured ship. If it's a player built ship then you get all 100% of ship cost and 60% cost of parts when scrapped or whatever devs setup. IF you don't agree then you are one of the duppers devs are looking for to ban. 

1. i dont dupe and try to avoid exploits

 

2. but new players dont do pvp, how else are they going to get better ships? practice boarding and make money? capturing ships by far is better than just shooting them

 

3. for experianced players, there still wont be a lot of pvp and capturing ships was a big reason as to why people got to where we are now this quickly, some people would otherwise struggle to get past the brig, capturing ships and them to be viable to be used should be obvious, they shouldnt be as good as home build ships but they should be competitive, it happened historically capturing and using the ship in your own navy, should be the same here.

Edited October 29, 2015 by OlavDeng2

[Ned Loe]

1. i dont dupe and try to avoid exploits

 

2. but new players dont do pvp, how else are they going to get better ships? practice boarding and make money? capturing ships by far is better

 

3. for experianced players, there still wont be a lot of pvp and capturing ships was a big reason as to why people got to where we are now this quickly, some people would otherwise struggle to get past the brig, capturing ships and them to be viable to be used should be obvious, they shouldnt be as good as home build ships but they should be competitive, it happened historically capturing and using the ship in your own navy, should be the same here.

Join guild. Start team fleeting. Earn at least 5k per battle. Repeat. Get promoted and buy a new player built ship and so on...Even on your own you get rewarded just to fight in battle and we are not talking about ship capture reward. To me it seems really good and steady income. Btw, no one forces you to go pvp.

[OlavDeng2]

Join guild. Start team fleeting. Earn at least 5k per battle. Repeat. Get promoted and buy a new player built ship and so on...

but not everyone wants to play with a team, some play solo, some are new. Capturing and using captured ships is part of the experiance which you dont understand it looks like, im trying to remain professional here but it is quite hard with some of the redicelous suggestions you provide.

 

Historically speaking as well, when did a ship loose performance when being captured? give me one time. How often have captured ships been used historically? if we are going to have unique nation ships as well(which i want atleast a couple of) we definetly cant have this, and heck the devs allready have a fix, why suggest something which is objectevly worse? give me one reason as to why your system is better.

[PIerrick de Badas]

The topic is not about how to fix this but what shoudl we do with the exploiters.

We got some confession about some of them and for thoses i would recommand a blame and a soft wipe with a soft wipe of crafting xp.

For the others ones i would recommand an hard wipe.

 

This bug exploit is the worst the game has known and need to be treatein an important way. In french nation and edr, we refused to use this exploit when it has been known for us and we still refuse to use it.

Problem is cheaters are now rich as million by selling duplicates victory and they get a reciepe they don't desserve by destroyign the ship they capture.

If pb come in a later stage, it menas we have to suffer inequal compeition in craft with price they can control and in pvp due of theiur ship.

If pb come tomorrow it's worst as we can't match with cheaters.

 

I lost my hope into this game as far as i see ow devs consider players. Some are testing, some are bullcheating and everyone is treaten the same way.

Just ban the cheaters, they have cheat now, they will continue after, why to consider them? Everyone is against them and their defense is a joke...

Fix it or loose your normal player base and keep only the cheaters.

[Prater]

Doesn't this discussion belong in another thread?  The devs stated they fixed the issue.  Discussing fixes is irrelevant and as of half a month ago behind the times.
 

The topic is not about how to fix this but what shoudl we do with the exploiters.
We got some confession about some of them and for thoses i would recommand a blame and a soft wipe with a soft wipe of crafting xp.
For the others ones i would recommand an hard wipe.
 
This bug exploit is the worst the game has known and need to be treatein an important way. In french nation and edr, we refused to use this exploit when it has been known for us and we still refuse to use it.
Problem is cheaters are now rich as million by selling duplicates victory and they get a reciepe they don't desserve by destroyign the ship they capture.
If pb come in a later stage, it menas we have to suffer inequal compeition in craft with price they can control and in pvp due of theiur ship.
If pb come tomorrow it's worst as we can't match with cheaters.
 
I lost my hope into this game as far as i see ow devs consider players. Some are testing, some are bullcheating and everyone is treaten the same way.
Just ban the cheaters, they have cheat now, they will continue after, why to consider them? Everyone is against them and their defense is a joke...
Fix it or loose your normal player base and keep only the cheaters.

For the love of god, how many times does admin have to say they are too busy to address it at the moment.  They have it fixed, but will not address it fully until after the next patch?  It is testing, not the full game.  Everything will be wiped.  What we do now in game will not echo into eternity or past the next wipe.  How can you lose faith in the game over the devs being too busy with the current patch to fully address the issue and have stated they will at a later date?  I for one am looking forward to the next iteration of the game.
 

[Ned Loe]

but not everyone wants to play with a team, some play solo, some are new. Capturing and using captured ships is part of the experiance which you dont understand it looks like, im trying to remain professional here but it is quite hard with some of the redicelous suggestions you provide.

 

Historically speaking as well, when did a ship loose performance when being captured? give me one time. How often have captured ships been used historically? if we are going to have unique nation ships as well(which i want atleast a couple of) we definetly cant have this, and heck the devs allready have a fix, why suggest something which is objectevly worse? give me one reason as to why your system is better.

Do not compare real world to game world. It's 2 different things. You can't copy everything 100% because it will not work in MMO. This was tested in many games. We will see final developer decision. 

[Ned Loe]

The topic is not about how to fix this but what shoudl we do with the exploiters.

We got some confession about some of them and for thoses i would recommand a blame and a soft wipe with a soft wipe of crafting xp.

For the others ones i would recommand an hard wipe.

 

This bug exploit is the worst the game has known and need to be treatein an important way. In french nation and edr, we refused to use this exploit when it has been known for us and we still refuse to use it.

Problem is cheaters are now rich as million by selling duplicates victory and they get a reciepe they don't desserve by destroyign the ship they capture.

If pb come in a later stage, it menas we have to suffer inequal compeition in craft with price they can control and in pvp due of theiur ship.

If pb come tomorrow it's worst as we can't match with cheaters.

 

I lost my hope into this game as far as i see ow devs consider players. Some are testing, some are bullcheating and everyone is treaten the same way.

Just ban the cheaters, they have cheat now, they will continue after, why to consider them? Everyone is against them and their defense is a joke...

Fix it or loose your normal player base and keep only the cheaters.

Nothing can be done, they are testers. They found an issue and they will play with it until devs fix it. REMEMBER: We are are still testing!!! On the other hand, when game will be released and this will be happening, violators could be perma banned for life. The end. I just gave devs a suggestion on how it can be fixed in case they need ideas and yeah... I am sure developers will do another hard wipe before game release, so all of us are equal from the start.

[Bart Smith]

Aye agree. Its very good this issue came out at this stage - during alpha tests. This should be fixed until early access. Sometimes a will to own first certain ship on server is more important than rest . But stay focus on testing guys. We dont want bugged game on steam are we? 

[SteelSandwich]

The topic is not about how to fix this but what shoudl we do with the exploiters.

We got some confession about some of them and for thoses i would recommand a blame and a soft wipe with a soft wipe of crafting xp.

For the others ones i would recommand an hard wipe.

This is just utter insane and i sincerely hope you realize what you are saying here.

 

This bug exploit is the worst the game has known and need to be treatein an important way. In french nation and edr, we refused to use this exploit when it has been known for us and we still refuse to use it.

Problem is cheaters are now rich as million by selling duplicates victory and they get a reciepe they don't desserve by destroyign the ship they capture.

If pb come in a later stage, it menas we have to suffer inequal compeition in craft with price they can control and in pvp due of theiur ship.

If pb come tomorrow it's worst as we can't match with cheaters.

People don't get rich by doing this, they get more rich. If you sincerely believe that rage-boarding of 8x 74' fleet would not generate money then you might wanna read a tutorial again.

Furthermore, there has been an exploit that allowed you to magically craft items without using resources or crafting hours, so please, for the love of god, don't sell us 'this is the worst exploit ever' crap. The one i mentioned beats this whole non-issue by a country-mile.

I am getting really tired of the discussion that is going on in here. Recipe's up to and including 74's are already widespread, no one will deny that. Even victory recipe's started to become common.

What the result of this flawed game mechanic will be is that the recipe will become even more common, that's all.

I lost my hope into this game as far as i see ow devs consider players. Some are testing, some are bullcheating and everyone is treaten the same way.

Just ban the cheaters, they have cheat now, they will continue after, why to consider them? Everyone is against them and their defense is a joke...

Fix it or loose your normal player base and keep only the cheaters.

Again, do you realize what you are saying here?

as a general statement:

No-one will benefit so much from this that it is game(testing)breaking.

Besides, if you feel so wronged by all this, the admin stated it was allowed to do until fixed.

Since it is not an exploit, yet an undeveloped gamemechanic.

So get of you high moral horse and get some sense of reality in your head.

 

 

With that said, can we lay this topic to rest? It's not like anything will change, or that it will speed up the hotfix.

Edited October 29, 2015 by SteelSandwich

[GrapeShot]

If they have a hot fix for this problem why don't they, between now and the fix's deployment, just do the obvious and say, "Do not use this exploit again or face a wipe?"

 

Makes you wonder, don't it...

Edited October 29, 2015 by GrapeShot

[SteelSandwich]

If they have a hot fix for this problem why don't they, between now and the fix's deployment, just do the obvious and say, "Do not use this exploit again or face a wipe?"

 

Makes you wonder, don't it...

That argument doesn't even make sense. and what is up with all the conspiracy-theories in here?

 

The thing is that the devs do not consider it an exploit, yet part of a game mechanic, and therefore aren't going to ban/whipe people.

What is so hard to comprehent about that?

[LeBoiteux]

If they have a hot fix for this problem why don't they, between now and the fix's deployment, just do the obvious (...)

 

Well...because they might be busy with "a couple" of things, not a lot...   :

 

Development plans until Early Access

 

Next 2 patches

·      Data changes and bug fixing

·      Gameplay tuning

·      Player to player trade and guilds

·      Bot improvements (movement, positioning, roles, boarding)

·      NPC Open world positioning and trade routes improvements

·      Free towns (uncapturable ports open to everyone including Pirates)

·      Invisible market hand – providing sufficient supplies at high enough prices

·      Minor graphical updates

 

Further work

 

Technology related

·      Stability related bug fixing

·      Preparation of infrastructure for the Early Access release (EA)

·      New back up servers/shards (in case demand is high)

 

Gameplay related

·      Port battles

·      NPC Haulers

·      Port supplies to boost the production in ports (a-la X3-TC)

 

After EA launch

After port battles are added to the game we plan to launch Early Access on Steam and start working on:

·      Annoyances fixes

·      Combat tuning

·      Trading and crafting finalization

·      Gameplay bug fixing

·      General polish.

 

Ship tuning

After introduction of the new vessels damage and ship survivability will be rebalanced to the final state. There will be a lot less gaps in planking size and overall ship survivability will be mostly based on the class and its size

 

Current ship line up

·      Unarmed and armed traders: (2 new ships planned, 2 possible)

·      Unrated 8-16 guns: Lynx, Cutter, Pickle, Yacht, Privateer

·      6^th rates 16-26 guns: Brig, Navy Brig, Snow, Mercury, Cerberus (3 new ships planned)

·      5^th rates 26-50 guns: Renomee, Surprise, Frigate and Variants, Belle Poule, Trincomalee (3 new ships planned)

·      4^th rates 50-64 guns: Constitution (2 new ships planned)

·      3^rd rates 64-80 guns: 74, Bellona (2 new ships planned)

·      2^nd rates 80-100 guns: St. Paul (3 new ships planned)

·      1^st rates 100-140 guns: Victory, Santisima (1 new ship planned)

 

User interface

User interface artwork and polish will start last. We expect several changes to the UI during the testing and there is no point to spend resources on art that will have to be redrawn again and again. 

Edited October 29, 2015 by LeBoiteux

[GrapeShot]

Yes, typing "don't use that exploit again" is really, really time consuming.

Edited October 29, 2015 by GrapeShot

[admin]

Yes, typing "don't use that exploit again" is really, really time consuming.

 

Grapeshot 

• We still remember you were spreading the rumors that we give Russian updates first (you never apologized by the way)
• Now you spread conspiracy theories again
• Don't do it ever again please on this forum

 

 

Now..Captains

We don't have to repeat ourselves twice

Please proceed to the following topic and read this rule

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/2346-forum-and-sea-trials-rules/?p=134195

This rule is crisp and clear. 

 

 

Reporting

We have like 10 reports max over last 2 weeks in total about this issue and 60% of those are from 1 guy who reported it in PM first and then by F11 and asked for clarification. Some pirates have reported it as well in voice and in private and also asked for clarifications.

 

Captains who are outraged the most have never reported it, have never asked about it in private or in public. If you are questioning our leniency - why have not you reported it Captains.

If you have not reported it that means you are not fulfilling your duty as a community citizen or a tester.

 

Going forward we would like to remind you - report bugs, problems, issues, items lost, anything weird or strange. And of course exploits.

If you are not reporting exploits you are ok with them. Reporting anything by f11 sends us logs, screen and all the necessary data.

 

 

We will come back to this after patch.

[Pagan Pete]

No Reinforcements… No Exploit.

[Powderhorn]

I understand that you want to come back to this after this patch. Let me lay out the following points for consideration at that time:

Your rule that I quoted earlier and that you again referenced states to report an exploit and not consistently do it.

I am uncertain as to what the issue is here. Were the players cited in the original post consistently exploiting? You seem to have the logs to find out, which I predicted in the same report.

You never addressed that, and instead have opted to try to throw blame back in the faces of everyone saying that this isn't right? I'm honestly not certain whether I'm more angry or disappointed.

I have asked myself a number of different questions through all this. "Is there a cultural difference where there are two wildly different understandings of justice?" "Is there some sort of language barrier where we are somehow talking across each other?" "Are we pushing something that simply cannot be addressed, and is being avoided instead of admitted?"

I truly have no idea where you are even coming from at this point, admin. I am honestly trying to put myself in your shoes to at least understand why you are handling this in the way that you are, and I am honestly at a loss.

I have thought on how else to handle tribunals, because I think nobody is walking away from this when all is said and done thinking that justice was seen.

My proposal, and this may need to be split into a separate thread, is to have three community members recognized for thoughtfulness and integrity, to be judges in these cases after a certain period for discussion to be had. With no power to mete out punishments, they would only pass judgment and recommend punishment for the crime. Those that have the power to execute punishments now would have the power to do so in this case too.

The tribunal system will only be used more as more players are added, and this would free up the development team to further develop the game.

[Blackjack Morgan]

The real issue for me at this point is that players know it is wrong. Devs have said it is wrong and it isn't working as intended and they intend to fix it in the near future. They have been clear about this as has been pointed out. They are asking for us to do the right thing and avoid exploiting game mechanics that have been identified as "broken" or at least not working as intended. I don't think, given the size of the current testing community, that they are asking for too much with this. We seriously need them to disrupt the timeline of new development features to "hot-fix" this because some knowingly choose to do the wrong thing? People who are doing this are WRONG.

 

What really chaps my hide is that you know you are wrong and you don't care. The people I caught doing it firsthand tonight, let's just say they are well known and it was organized and well off the beaten path....outside Aves. However, I look at this as a golden opportunity to set an example. We have people who are choosing to actively exploit a mechanic even after being told it is wrong. No need to call them out by name in public but rather wipe their accounts. We are suppose to refrain from bad language and verbal attacks on other testers as we want to develop a environment that is different than most online games yet we will tolerate what is way more severe toxic behavior....cheating. You can call me mean names all you want...I'm ok with that....but cheating and trying to justify it is wrong.

 

People make mistakes in judgement. We don't need a witch hunt or public humiliation but they should still be held accountable for their actions....especially since people are still doing it.

[qw569😳]

Attacking defence fleet is exploit?

 

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