Ships inherent characteristics.

[oleski]

Ship characteristics descriptions

 

Wood types

Fir - faster ship, weaker hull

Live oak - stronger frame (+ planking), +1 class of armor quality, less speed

Oak - stronger frame (+ planking) - no speed effect

(need feedback on more timber types if they are needed in the timber qualities topic http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4636-timber-types-used-in-ship-construction-request/)

 

Characteristics

Stiffness - heel; from less reduction to more reduction

Speed - speed; from low to high

Crew space - crew size; from lower to higher

Planking - structure leaking; from more to less

Build strength - planking amount; from less to more

Rigging quality - sails up and down speed/ yard turning speed; from less to more

Explorer - open world speed; standard OW speed buff

 

If you think more inherent characteristics please propose in this topic.

 

Maybe somthing with better turn?

 

Turn - from lower to higher (ofcourse a reasonable %, making softly better turn)

[Rychu Karas]

As i wrote in different topic. Wood type shouldnt impact on sailing parameters. Stronger hulls should be heavier. Only weight should influnce on sailing attributes like speed turning acceleration. Same logic should be applied to whole game mechanics, cannons goods in cargo. heavy mean slow, empty/light should be fast. ofcourse its related to hull design and type.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Rychu Karas

[Malachi]

heavy mean slow, empty/light should be fast

 

 

Er, no. Ships were designed with a certain load waterline and total weight in mind. An completely empty merchant vessel would sail like a pig and couldn´t set sails as usual, making her slower then fully loaded.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Malachi

[Booyaah]

What ever happened to Mahogany?

[maturin]

What ever happened to Mahogany?

Anglocentrism happened.

 

 

Mahogany would be similar in properties to teak*, I presume, as it is extremely durable. One of the reasons Havana-built ships lasted so long, if I am not mistaken.

 

*Except that it, err, actually grows in the Caribbean and was exported to Europe, unlike Teak.

 

From Wiki:

the Gibraltar, of 80 guns, captured by Lord Rodney off Cape St. Vincent was broken up in the royal dock yard at Pembroke, and though she must have been one of the oldest ships afloat, [84 years] yet all her timbers were so sound as when they were put into her, and the whole British navy, and if I am not mistaken, are now supplied with tables made out of the Gibraltar timbers. 

 

The dissemination of Clayton Dissinger Mell's 1917 monograph on the subject, "True Mahogany", resulted in the increased use of mahogany in ship construction: "It is particularly suited for planking, waterways, bulwarks, rails, skylights and companions, bitts, gangway ladders, and other deck work. With the later employment of iron, steel and teak in shipbuilding, mahogany became far more important as a furniture wood, though it is still preferred to any other wood for the framework of small sailing vessels. Large sailing vessels with mahogany framework were sold for enormous prices and manufactured into fine furniture."

Edit: This source says that mahogany is lighter, stronger and more buoyant than oak, and also burns and splinters less. Not quite are resistant to rot and insects as teak.

[VictusB]

Can also confirm that as of now the Crew Space modifier does not modify anything stat wise.

 

Hugh was nice enough to craft me a Masterwork Snow which came out of the yard with Masterwork level Crew space and Stiffness.

 

Can't speak to stiffness difference due to my own lack of exp, however the ships compliment is still 130 same as 'stock' Snow.

[Prater]

Can also confirm that as of now the Crew Space modifier does not modify anything stat wise.

 

Hugh was nice enough to craft me a Masterwork Snow which came out of the yard with Masterwork level Crew space and Stiffness.

 

Can't speak to stiffness difference due to my own lack of exp, however the ships compliment is still 130 same as 'stock' Snow.

 

 

Are you sure?  Go in battle.  I know for sure that Crew Space does work.

[NorthernWolves]

Cuban Mahogany is what was used in shipbuilding, the Santisima was made of it.

It is very durable and seaworthy, but it is weaker than oak.

Cuban Mahogany 37lbs cu.ft

English/Red Oak 42lbs cu. ft

White Oak 47lbs cu.ft

[eken]

So what is the latest info on teak?

[ShavedAlpaca]

I named my fir Connie Old Buttersides. A 3rd rate needed to only look at me and Id lose half my side.

So we all agree that Teak is a wood with no modifiers at all?

[Prater]

Cuban Mahogany is what was used in shipbuilding, the Santisima was made of it.

It is very durable and seaworthy, but it is weaker than oak.

Cuban Mahogany 37lbs cu.ft

English/Red Oak 42lbs cu. ft

White Oak 47lbs cu.ft

 

 

Caguairán and júcaro were also used in the Santisima.  I've seen Caguairan referenced as Hymenaea courbaril.  I think Caguairan is 2,350 lbf on the Janka scale:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymenaea_courbaril  

http://www.keularts.com/flora/trees/076.html

 

Jucaro seems to be Bucida buceras with a Janka hardness of 2340 http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/TechSheets/Chudnoff/TropAmerican/pdf_files/bucida1new.pdf

I'm not sure how these woods were used in the Santisima Trinidad. If for blocks then that wouldn't matter.

[NorthernWolves]

Yes those are the rigging woods and some of the interior furnishings. The Spanish made elaborately designed ships in that regard.

 

Cuban Mahogany was the primary wood used in the frames and the planking of Spanish ships since the 1500s. Those 3 are small trees and thus couldn't be cut for frames and planking. Most single planks were a solid straight piece 14-21 ft long, depending on ship size, frames were long and curved, usually 10-12 feet, 9-14" in width and then on ships like the Santisima would need to be 7-10" thick at that width and likely 14' long and curved.

 

I'd say these woods were for all the rigging and other furnished parts.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swietenia_mahagoni

 

"Mahogany, cedar and other woods were shipped more or less regularly from the West Indies to Spain long before 1575, for Spain at that time dominated the world and its demand for ship building timbers was enormous. Spain itself had no timber suitable for building ships and its unfriendly relations with northern Europe made drawing supplies from that source impossible; consequently it obtained timber from San Domingo, Cuba and Jamaica for building many ships of the Spanish Armada prior to 1588. A number of the largest Spanish ships were built of West Indies mahogany.^[7]"

 

 

 

http://www.wood-database.com/?s=west+indies+mahogany

 

Average Dried Weight: 37 lbs/ft3 (600 kg/m3)

Janka Hardness: 930 lbf (4,120 N)

[Jim Bligh]

Term. Definition. stiff ship. a ship having a large righting moment of statical stability; i.e. the vessel tends to roll swiftly from port to starboard sides due to large righting lever when its equilibrium is disturbed. opposite of tender ship.

 

" A sailboat/ship is tender when it is unbalanced, heeling excessively in breezy conditions and requiring adjustment by crew to sheets and trim. In keel boats insufficient keel weight, lead or otherwise, will cause the boat to heel. Conversely, too much sail area in proportion to ballast, or an unusually high center of balance, will create the same effect."  quoted from here .http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/14545-tender-stiff.html

 

Don't confuse Tender with  A ship's tender, usually referred to as a tender, is a boat, or a larger ship used to service or support other boats or ships, generally by transporting people and/or supplies to and from shore or another ship. Smaller boats may also have tenders, usually called dinghies.

 

So using TENDERNESS would be correct. A ship has the habit of tenderness sailing - Being tender during sailing

[IonAguirre]

I disagree

 

Point 1: Spain, if compared with England or France is a lot more wooded, being the Oak, the most common tree. Being Spain the most Mountanious country in Europe and second regarding mean height over sea level, lot of kinds of Firs and pines are also common.

Please dont believe that the whole territory of Spain is like Ibiza or Costa del Sol.

 

Point 2: American wood, was mostly used at American ships yards. Spain built ships at both sides of the Ocean. European territory built ships were mostly made from Oak.

 

 

Point 3: Mahogany WAS a giant tree, but no really big one survided the Naval construction era. Furnituring and decorative use is a relatively modern activity that gave no place for young trees to grow.

In Spanish we have two words for naming Mahogany, Caoba= Old really big Mahogany trees. Caobilla= What reamins today. Little young trees.

 

No ship, at no place in Europe was built from a single kind of wood. It makes no sense.

 

Nothern Europe trees are not good for ship building. Fir, and relatives are only valid for masts.

 

Best woods in Europe all those belonging to the Quercus genus.

 

About  Mahogany versus Oak:

Mahogany is neither attacket nor corrupted by sea animals, hence drydock operations can be delayed a lot when compared with oak wood and ships performance.is less affected by time.

Oak wood is sligtly stronger, but heavier. Hence by compensating the strength difference by slightly thicker parts, still returns a stronger and lighters ship.

 

 

Regards

[ironhammer500]

What is the difference between planking and build strength?

[prichardgs]

Teak wood type is already in the game, isn't it? Does it just have no effect?

 

 

I don't like the speed effects of different wood types. Live oak construction should maybe have a very small speed penalty because of weight, but that's it. The British builts tons of Leda-class frigates in oak, fir and teak. None of them were noticeably faster than the others, or at least no one could notice the effects of different timber type.

 

Alternate idea for Fir wood type:

-40% Ship construction labor hours

-1 Durability point

-1 Armor class

-30% OW repair kit effectiveness

Automatic Stiffness upgrade of varying quality

Automatic Acceleration upgrade

 

Live Oak wood type:

+30% repair kit cost

 

I agree.

[prichardgs]

Well I could think of some random things that could add characteristics to ships.

 

Something like say. . .

"Higher Crows Nest: Better cannon accuracy, from less to more" (Idea being your man up there can give you a better distance to target

"Oar holes: Against wind speed bonus, some to more than some" 

"Large cannon holes: Increased cannon vertical/horizontal aiming, less to more"

"Bow Figurine: Morale bonus, less to more"

"Bow breaker: Increased ramming damage, less to more"

"Larger Triangle sails: Increased side wind speed, less to more"

 

I could probably come up with a dozen more random things. I was also thinking of officers, and the amount any given ship could have, and was looking at regular and permanent upgrades. Perhaps a ship could have a number similar to those, when built. 

I think you should be able to "see from the crows nest" and I agree these extras would be neat.

[Joshua Humphreys]

What is the difference between planking and build strength?

 

Second this question.  For example, I have seen in different places that Planking helps shots bounce off, and others that Build Strength is what you want for that.

[maturin]

Planking slows down flooding when HP is low. Build Strength adds HP.

[Hethwill]

Planking slows down flooding when HP is low. Build Strength adds HP.

 

Pretty much. Strength equals structural soundness and Planking will affect penetration/leaking shots.

 

HP simply equals structure. Being empty does not means the ship is sinking. It simply is way more fragile and weak.

Being on the odd end of the stick and proper broadside of the 18 pounders versus my empty structure ensured 4 leaks above the waterline and 3 below, but there are worst cases.

 

Regarding Teak and Oak at the moment I don't see any differences. Maybe structural HP difference ? Or chance for built in second quality Planking is higher in one than another ? Maybe even Speed ? Too may variables.

[PL_Harpoon]

Regarding Teak and Oak at the moment I don't see any differences. Maybe structural HP difference ? Or chance for built in second quality Planking is higher in one than another ? Maybe even Speed ? Too may variables.

 

I guess the best way to find out is to craft two identical ships, one teak and one oak to confirm the difference.

[Hethwill]

I guess the best way to find out is to craft two identical ships, one teak and one oak to confirm the difference.

 

Crafters should keep their books in order and establish a pattern

 

I simply throw my cash at them

[TommyShelby]

Planking Values (HP);

Fir; -5%

Teak; 0%

Oak; 5%

Live Oak; 10%

 

Speed Values;

Fir; 2,5%

Teak; 0%

Oak; 0%

Live Oak; -2,5% 

 

There's also an "armor class" difference and something i refer to as a "Frame class" difference. The 2 affects penetration and leak's (Maybe more). 

Noone except the dev's know exactly how the "armor class" and "frame class" works but based on what we've been told it goes something like this;

Fir; Weak armor and Frame.

Teak; "Default" armor and frame (Stronger than Fir, Weaker than Oak.) 

Oak; Strong frame. ("Default" armor).

Live oak; Strong frame and Strong armor.

 

Note; This is based on what Admin has posted here in this thread along with a shitton of testing. I might be wrong about some of it so take the text in cursiv with a grain of salt! 

 

As for those who still wonder why admin did not post anything for Teak. It is because Teak is viewed as the "Default".

 

 

Edit: Admin has now said that Teak gets +1 Armor class. (Like Live Oak).

[Snoopy]

What Tommy just posted needs to be stickied somewhere

[Ian2492]

Planking Values (HP);

Fir; -5%

Teak; 0%

Oak; 5%

Live Oak; 10%

 

Speed Values;

Fir; 2,5%

Teak; 0%

Oak; 0%

Live Oak; -2,5% 

 

There's also an "armor class" difference and something i refer to as a "Frame class" difference. The 2 affects penetration and leak's (Maybe more). 

Noone except the dev's know exactly how the "armor class" and "frame class" works but based on what we've been told it goes something like this;

Fir; Weak armor and Frame.

Teak; "Default" armor and frame (Stronger than Fir, Weaker than Oak.) 

Oak; Strong frame. ("Default" armor).

Live oak; Strong frame and Strong armor.

 

Note; This is based on what Admin has posted here in this thread along with a shitton of testing. I might be wrong about some of it so take the text in cursiv with a grain of salt! 

 

As for those who still wonder why admin did not post anything for Teak. It is because Teak is viewed as the "Default".

 

That would make Oak 100% better than Teak.

Admin posted recently that Teak had +1 Armor class over Oak.