Malachi Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) Plan (from the Riksarkivet, Kopenhagen) Service history Designed by Blaise Pangalo (also known as maître Blaise) at Brest Keel laid down: 09. 1706 First Commissioned 10. 1707 21.10. 1707 Battle of the Lizard/Bataille d'Ouessant (I linked the english and the french wiki entries) Capture of the Ruby, 50 guns, and several merchant ships 1708 Cruise to the Azores, again as part of the escadre Duguay-Trouin, taking three prices 1711 Expedition to Rio de Janeiro 1712 Return to Brest 1728 Cruise to Tripoli, Bombardement of Tripoli 1741 hulked at Brest 1748 broken up Dimensions ( as demi - batterie, in pied de Roi) Length 118' Breadth 31'6'' Depth in hold 13'6'' Armarment Gundeck 6, later 8* 12 pounders Upper Deck 26* 8 pounders Forecastle and Quarterdeck 8* 4 pounders Dimensions (as frigate) Length 118'9'' Breadth 32' Depth in hold 13'8 1/2'' Armarment Upper Deck 26* 8 pounders Forecastle and Quarterdeck ? A couple of words about Blaise Pangalo, as he was quite an illustrious and mysterious figure: Originally from Venice, he went to France to work as a shipwright and was 'discovered' by Admiral de Tourville in the late 1670s. With this kind of patronage and his exceptional talents , he quickly rose through the ranks and finally became master shipwright at Brest, the most senior position in the hierachy of french naval engineers. While in french service, he designed and built at least 23 vessels, including five first rates. Pangalo´s ships were famed for stability, speed and weatherliness and his work had an huge impact on french ship design and provided a major influence for Blaise Ollivier, one of the most eminent figures in 18th century ship building ( and he built 'our' Renommée, by the way). Pangalo - most probably - died in 1714 in Brest, although it´s possible that he faked his own death in a rather creative effort to escape substantial financial troubles and contined working in Russia under Peter the Great until 1719. L'Amazone was one the first demi-batteries, 'designed specifically for commerce raiding' (Sailing Ships at War, Howard), with a fully armed upper deck and half a tier of guns on the gun deck. It´s not clear when the rebuilt took place, but given the service history of L'Amazone, I think it´s safe to assume that it happened either under the supervision of Joseph Ollivier, Blaise´s father, as master shipwright at Brest or in the early years of B. Ollivier´s tenure at the same post. In either case, she was one of the very first steps in the evolution of the 'true' frigate. Sources: Ships and Shipbuilders: Pioneers of Design and Construction, Walker, 2010 18th Century Shipbuilding: Remarks on the Navies of the English & the Dutch. Olliver, 1737, edited by Roberts, 1992 Snau and Fregat: Small Cruisers in the Danish Navy 1650 - 1750, Auer, 2008 Vaisseau de 64 cannons Le Fleuron, Boudriot/Delacroix, 1995 WIP pics As the plan leaves much to be desired, I have to do things a bit differently this time (read: oldschool) and build the ship from the ground up. The 'frames' aren´t the actual frames, just the station lines with the thickness of the planking already added, should serve as a nice visual aid to determine the final hull shape. The stuff not depicted on the plan (e.g. positions/dimensions of the masts, a proper deck plan) will come from contemporary treatises and tables. This is going to be fun Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Wow, very heavy upper deck armament for that era. That would let her compete with NA's 1790s designs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Smith Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Cant find any more details about this ship can anybody share if any? Cheers. Looks promising as well good luck with this project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) There isn´t much to find, I´m afraid The info about her service history is from the 'Dictionnaire des bâtiments de la flotte de guerre française de Colbert à nos jours', a more detailed account on her actions and commanding officer at the Battle of the Lizard can be found the 'Histoire militaire du Regne de Louis Le Grand' (1726). And she´s mentioned in a rather strange place, the 'Histoire des Mathematiques' (1802). Okay, it´s not as strange as it sounds, as the chapter deals with the use of advanced mathematical methods to improve ship construction. The author complains about the fact that although Pangalo made vessels with all the desired qualities (refering to Le Lys, 74 guns), he also made a secret of his design principles and thus impeded the overall progress of french ship building ([...]. On vit aussi l'Amazone, le Jason, qui feroient même à présent de trés bon voiliers; mais on faisoit un secret des plans et des moyens de construction. [...]) Wow, very heavy upper deck armament for that era. That would let her compete with NA's 1790s designs She packed quite a punch as demi-batterie, yes But I´m building her after the rebuild/refonte, so she´s 'just' a 8-pounder frigate* like the Renommée (*cough* and the historical Surprise/Unité *cough*) Way ahead of her time in the 1720s/1730s, but a quite common ship type in the late 1750s. * her armarment as a frigate isn´t mentioned anywhere, I can only assume that she carried 8-pounders based on the size of the gunports and the distance between them. Edited September 8, 2015 by Malachi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirones Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 coulkd you make an unfished version as an sort of shipwreck or under contruchtion in a shipyard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) Already thought about the shipyard thingy, would be a lot of work to do all the internal framing. It´s certainly tempting, though. Update: Got the planking up to the whales done. Still have to work out some issues (e.g. at the wing transom), but that shouldn´t be much of a problem. Still trying to figure out if this ship had a steering wheel or just a tiller on the quarterdeck. Most probably the latter, but the angle of the sternpost isn´t quite right for that. Mhmh.... Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) And tiller it is... Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Mouse Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 What are you using to make it in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Blender for modelling, GIMP for textures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Mouse Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Shouldn't you wait with UV unwrapping until you're done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirones Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 but it looks fancy with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) So is es The stern is taking shape and the quarterdeck and upper deck are in: As the plan doesn´t show the stern and quarter galleries, I have to reconstruct the internal arrangement to guestimate what the stern could have looked like. So far, it seems probable that she had five windows with the middle one being a false light, possibly covered by a badge or something similiar. Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirones Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 dont over do it even an generic stern can look nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Mouse Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Does this site help you with anything? They're all Chapman's but many of those kind of designs borrow from each other anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) Chapman´s drafts are 20 or 30 too young...and show a bit too much english influence. Quote dont over do it even an generic stern can look nice Well, I have to do model the internal framings to know where and how big the windows were, how big the taffarel was etc. And 'generic' doesn´t really apply to the french designs in the early 18th century, when ship sterns could look like this I have a couple of contemporary drawings by Caffieri, the master carver (and responsible for the decorations of the ships built there) at Brest at the time when L'Amazone had her rebuild, so I think I can whip something together that wouldn´t totally look out of place. I may adapt this concept for Amazone: Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idle Champion Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Was just about to hunt down plans and pics for some two-decker and demi-battery galley frigates; lo and behold, one of the ships on my hit-list was already in shipyard. She's an unusual example of the type; most galley-frigates and great frigates didn't have more than 22 guns on their main deck. But its definitely cool to see one of the weird and wonderful pre-1740 frigates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted June 23, 2016 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 The plans shows her proposed rebuild as a classic frigate, though. No plans for L'Amazone as a demi. If you´re looking for other demis, Edmond Paris' Souvenir de Marine has a draught of the Gloire of 1707 (40 8-pounders and 4 4-pounders). The french and spanish built these kind of ships until the end of the first half of the 18th century, the largest one probably was L'Abenakise (Aurora), built by R. Le Vasseur in 1757 in Quebec, armed with 8 18-pounders, 28 12-pounders and 2 6-pounders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 The plans shows her proposed rebuild as a classic frigate, though. No plans for L'Amazone as a demi. If you´re looking for other demis, Edmond Paris' Souvenir de Marine has a draught of the Gloire of 1707 (40 8-pounders and 4 4-pounders). The french and spanish built these kind of ships until the end of the first half of the 18th century, the largest one probably was L'Abenakise (Aurora), built by R. Le Vasseur in 1757 in Quebec, armed with 8 18-pounders, 28 12-pounders and 2 6-pounders. Do you have plans for L'Abenakise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted June 23, 2016 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 There´s a NMM plan for L'Abekanise, but it´s...rather incomplete: http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/82443.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idle Champion Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Malachi, a fairly involved request, but do you have or know of plans for any of the following French galley-frigates and two-decker frigates: 36-gun Dunkirkers Tigre or Les Jeux (1689) 38/40-gun Dunkirker Croissant/Brutal (1674) 22/32-gun galley-frigate Milfort (1697, ex-Milford) [if not Milfort, then Fouey or Ludlow, two other captures of the same type that ended their careers in French service.] 48-gun two-decker Griffon (1705) I've found measurements, armament, and even some crew details and Wind shared a pic of Les Jeux a while back, but I'd like to build a more complete picture of some good galley-frigate candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted June 24, 2016 Author Share Posted June 24, 2016 List of plans for late 17th/early 18th century ships (frégates légères, demis, galleys) from the top of my head: Le Francois 1683, ca. 30 guns, monograph by Ancre (fictional, based on the Album de Colbert) L'Aurore, 1697, 18-gun ship with oar ports, lines&profile, french archives (Toulon?), Souvenirs de la Marine, monograph by Ancre Unnamed 18-gun ship with oar ports , british, ca. 1700, lines&profile, NMM L'Amphitrite/La Protée, ca. 40 guns, Dunkirk, 1700, profile, NMM Les Jeux, 36 guns, french, drawings for the head and stern decorations, danish archives (dunno if it´s for the one built in 1688 or the one built in 1689) La Gloire, 38 guns, french, lines&profile, Souvenirs de la Marine Sweepstakes, 34 guns, british (ex-french?) demi, 1707?, lines&profile, NMM, danish archives Unnamed 28 gun ship with oar ports, french, ca. 1700, lines&profile, danish archives Le Capricieux, ca. 30 guns, french, ca. 1690, lines&profile (taken off the model), drawings for the head and stern decorations, Souvenirs de la Marine St. Sulpice, ca. 24 guns, french, ca. 1700, lines&profile, NMM Peregrine Galley, ca. 26 guns, british, 1700, lines&profile, NMM, reconstruction by Chapelle Raae and Hohenhald, 30 guns, danish, 1709/10, lines&profile, danish archives Greyhound, 20-gun ship with oar ports, 1712, lines&profile, NMM, danish archives Illerim/Pommern, 38-gun ship with oar ports, 1712, danish/swedish, lines&profile, danish archives 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idle Champion Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Excellent. Definitely colour me interested in seeing Les Jeux, La Gloire (La Gloire and Sweepstakes seem to be the same ship, though carrying thoroughly different armament between services), and L'Amphitrite/La Protee; I'd like to take the temperature of the community to seeing some demi-batterie and two-decker ships of equivalent power to the in-game fifth-rate and sixth-rate before the next major poll, in part because it'd be good to show the earlier type of frigate and in part because I think they'd add quite a bit to small and medium ship gameplay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted June 24, 2016 Author Share Posted June 24, 2016 I´m at work right now, but I´ll post the plans I have this evening (or tomorrow. With a weather like this, the Biergarten is calling ). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted June 26, 2016 Author Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) Here we go: La Gloire 1707 Sweepstakes Gosport 1707 Success 1712 And a contemporary model of a french 40-ship, Le Triton: http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66343.html#46RWxO8jIIIVywGM.97 Model of a sixth-rate sloop ca. 1715 http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66368.html#prU2w48PcghBSlQ0.97 No plan for Les Jeux, but a Van de Velde drawing: Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalC Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I may be about 2 years too late on this thread, but if you're interested in the Armaments for the L'Amazone, 3Deck has a listing for the information regarding a ship of that name. I'm guessing you want the information on the ship that was laid down in 1706. Lower Gun Deck: 8 French 12-Pounder Upper Gun Deck: 26 French 8-Pounder Quarterdeck/Forecastle: 8 French 4-Pounder Can't help but wonder how this file now looks (or if it remains a work in progress). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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