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'L'Amazone' 1707 (With Plans)

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Plan

 

 

 

(from the Riksarkivet, Kopenhagen)

 

 

Service history

 

Designed by Blaise Pangalo (also known as maître Blaise) at Brest

Keel laid down:        09. 1706

First Commissioned 10. 1707

 

 

21.10. 1707  Battle of the Lizard/Bataille d'Ouessant

                     (I linked the english and the french wiki entries)

                      Capture of the Ruby, 50 guns, and several merchant ships

                    

1708             Cruise to the Azores, again as part of the escadre Duguay-Trouin, taking three prices

 

1711             Expedition to Rio de Janeiro

 

1712            Return to Brest

 

1728            Cruise to Tripoli, Bombardement of Tripoli

 

1741            hulked at Brest

 

1748            broken up

 

 

Dimensions ( as demi - batterie, in pied de Roi)

 

Length              118'

Breadth             31'6''

Depth in hold    13'6''

 

Armarment

 

Gundeck                                         6, later  8* 12 pounders

Upper Deck                                           26* 8   pounders

Forecastle and Quarterdeck                   8* 4   pounders

 

 

Dimensions (as frigate)

 

Length              118'9''

Breadth              32'

Depth in hold     13'8 1/2''

 

Armarment

 

Upper Deck                                           26* 8   pounders

Forecastle and Quarterdeck                       ?

 

 

A couple of words about Blaise Pangalo, as he was quite an illustrious and mysterious figure:

 

Originally from Venice, he went to France to work as a shipwright and was 'discovered' by Admiral de Tourville in the late 1670s.

With this kind of patronage and his exceptional talents , he quickly rose through the ranks and finally became master shipwright at Brest, the most senior position in the hierachy of french naval engineers.

 

While in french service, he designed and built at least 23 vessels, including five first rates. Pangalo´s ships were famed for stability, speed and weatherliness and his work had an huge impact on french ship design and provided a major influence for Blaise Ollivier, one of the most eminent figures in 18th century ship building ( and he built 'our' Renommée, by the way).

 

Pangalo - most probably - died in 1714 in Brest, although it´s possible that he faked his own death in a rather creative effort to escape substantial financial troubles and contined working in Russia under Peter the Great until 1719.

 

 

 

L'Amazone was one the first demi-batteries, 'designed specifically for commerce raiding' (Sailing Ships at War, Howard),

with a fully armed upper deck and half a tier of guns on the gun deck.

 

It´s not clear when the rebuilt took place, but given the service history of L'Amazone, I think it´s safe to assume that it happened either under the supervision of Joseph Ollivier, Blaise´s father, as master shipwright at Brest or in the early years of B. Ollivier´s tenure at the same post.

In either case, she was one of the very first steps in the evolution of the 'true' frigate.

 

 

Sources:

 

Ships and Shipbuilders: Pioneers of Design and Construction, Walker, 2010

18th Century Shipbuilding: Remarks on the Navies of the English & the Dutch. Olliver, 1737, edited by Roberts, 1992

Snau and Fregat:  Small Cruisers in the Danish Navy 1650 - 1750, Auer, 2008

Vaisseau de 64 cannons Le Fleuron, Boudriot/Delacroix, 1995

 

 

 

 

WIP pics

 

 

As the plan leaves much to be desired, I have to do things a bit differently this time (read: oldschool) and build the ship from the ground up.

The 'frames' aren´t the actual frames, just the station lines with the thickness of the planking already added, should serve as a nice visual aid to determine the final hull shape.

 

The stuff not depicted on the plan (e.g. positions/dimensions of the masts, a proper deck plan) will come from contemporary treatises and tables. This is going to be fun :P

 

 

 

 

Edited by Malachi
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Wow, very heavy upper deck armament for that era. That would let her compete with NA's 1790s designs.

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Cant find any more details about this ship can anybody share if any? Cheers. Looks promising as well good luck with this project  :D

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There isn´t much to find, I´m afraid :(

 

The info about her service history is from the 'Dictionnaire des bâtiments de la flotte de guerre française de Colbert à nos jours', a more detailed account on her actions and commanding officer at the Battle of the Lizard can be found the 'Histoire militaire du Regne de Louis Le Grand' (1726).

 

And she´s mentioned in a rather strange place, the 'Histoire des Mathematiques' (1802). Okay, it´s not as strange as it sounds, as the chapter deals with the use of advanced mathematical methods to improve ship construction. The author complains about the fact that although Pangalo made vessels with all the desired qualities (refering to Le Lys, 74 guns), he also made a secret of his design principles and thus impeded the overall progress of french ship building ([...]. On vit aussi l'Amazone, le Jason, qui feroient même à présent de trés bon voiliers; mais on faisoit un secret des plans et des moyens de construction. [...])

 

Wow, very heavy upper deck armament for that era. That would let her compete with NA's 1790s designs

 

 

She packed quite a punch as demi-batterie, yes :P

But I´m building her after the rebuild/refonte, so she´s 'just' a 8-pounder frigate* like the Renommée (*cough* and the historical Surprise/Unité *cough*)

Way ahead of her time in the 1720s/1730s, but a quite common ship type in the late 1750s.

 

* her armarment as a frigate isn´t mentioned anywhere, I can only assume that she carried 8-pounders based on the size of the gunports and the distance between them.

Edited by Malachi

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coulkd you make an unfished version as an sort of shipwreck or under contruchtion in a shipyard

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Already thought about the shipyard thingy, would be a lot of work to do all the internal framing. It´s certainly tempting, though.

 

Update:

 

Got the planking up to the whales done. Still have to work out some issues (e.g. at the wing transom), but that shouldn´t be much of a problem.

 

 

 

 

Still trying to figure out if this ship had a steering wheel or just a tiller on the quarterdeck. Most probably the latter, but the angle of the sternpost isn´t quite right for that. Mhmh....

 

Edited by Malachi
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So is es :P

 

 

 

The stern is taking shape and the quarterdeck and upper deck are in:

 

 

 

As the plan doesn´t show the stern and quarter galleries, I have to reconstruct the internal arrangement to guestimate what the stern could have looked like. So far, it seems probable that she had five windows with the middle one being a false light, possibly covered by a badge or something similiar.

Edited by Malachi

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Chapman´s drafts are 20 or 30 too young...and show a bit too much english influence.

 

Quote
dont over do it even an generic stern can look nice

 

 

Well, I have to do model the internal framings to know where and how big the windows were, how big the taffarel was etc.

And 'generic' doesn´t really apply to the french designs in the early 18th century, when ship sterns could look like this :P

 

 

 

I have a couple of contemporary drawings by Caffieri, the master carver (and responsible for the decorations of the ships built there) at Brest at the time when L'Amazone had her rebuild, so I think I can whip something together that wouldn´t totally look out of place. I may adapt this concept for Amazone:

 

 

Edited by Malachi
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Was just about to hunt down plans and pics for some two-decker and demi-battery galley frigates; lo and behold, one of the ships on my hit-list was already in shipyard.

 

She's an unusual example of the type; most galley-frigates and great frigates didn't have more than 22 guns on their main deck. But its definitely cool to see one of the weird and wonderful pre-1740 frigates.

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The plans shows her proposed rebuild as a classic frigate, though. No plans for L'Amazone as a demi.

If you´re looking for other demis, Edmond Paris' Souvenir de Marine has a draught of the Gloire of 1707 (40 8-pounders and 4 4-pounders). The french and spanish built these kind of ships until the end of the first half of the 18th century, the largest one probably was L'Abenakise (Aurora), built by R. Le Vasseur in 1757 in Quebec, armed with 8 18-pounders, 28 12-pounders and 2 6-pounders.

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The plans shows her proposed rebuild as a classic frigate, though. No plans for L'Amazone as a demi.

If you´re looking for other demis, Edmond Paris' Souvenir de Marine has a draught of the Gloire of 1707 (40 8-pounders and 4 4-pounders). The french and spanish built these kind of ships until the end of the first half of the 18th century, the largest one probably was L'Abenakise (Aurora), built by R. Le Vasseur in 1757 in Quebec, armed with 8 18-pounders, 28 12-pounders and 2 6-pounders.

Do you have plans for L'Abenakise?

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Malachi, a fairly involved request, but do you have or know of plans for any of the following French galley-frigates and two-decker frigates:

 

36-gun Dunkirkers Tigre or Les Jeux (1689)

38/40-gun Dunkirker Croissant/Brutal (1674)

22/32-gun galley-frigate Milfort (1697, ex-Milford) [if not Milfort, then Fouey or Ludlow, two other captures of the same type that ended their careers in French service.]

48-gun two-decker Griffon (1705)

 

I've found measurements, armament, and even some crew details and Wind shared a pic of Les Jeux a while back, but I'd like to build a more complete picture of some good galley-frigate candidates.

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List of plans for late 17th/early 18th century ships (frégates légères, demis, galleys) from the top of my head:

 

Le Francois 1683, ca. 30 guns, monograph by Ancre (fictional, based on the Album de Colbert)

L'Aurore, 1697, 18-gun ship with oar ports, lines&profile, french archives (Toulon?), Souvenirs de la Marine, monograph by Ancre

Unnamed 18-gun ship with oar ports , british, ca. 1700, lines&profile, NMM

L'Amphitrite/La Protée, ca. 40 guns, Dunkirk, 1700, profile, NMM

Les Jeux, 36 guns, french, drawings for the head and stern decorations, danish archives (dunno if it´s for the one built in 1688 or the one built in 1689)

La Gloire, 38 guns, french, lines&profile, Souvenirs de la Marine

Sweepstakes, 34 guns, british (ex-french?) demi, 1707?, lines&profile, NMM, danish archives

Unnamed 28 gun ship with oar ports, french, ca. 1700, lines&profile, danish archives

Le Capricieux, ca. 30 guns, french, ca. 1690, lines&profile (taken off the model), drawings for the head and stern decorations, Souvenirs de la Marine

St. Sulpice, ca. 24 guns, french, ca. 1700, lines&profile, NMM

Peregrine Galley, ca. 26 guns, british, 1700, lines&profile, NMM, reconstruction by Chapelle

Raae and Hohenhald, 30 guns, danish, 1709/10, lines&profile, danish archives

Greyhound, 20-gun ship with oar ports, 1712, lines&profile, NMM, danish archives

Illerim/Pommern, 38-gun ship with oar ports, 1712, danish/swedish, lines&profile, danish archives

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Excellent. Definitely colour me interested in seeing Les Jeux, La Gloire (La Gloire and Sweepstakes seem to be the same ship, though carrying thoroughly different armament between services), and L'Amphitrite/La Protee; I'd like to take the temperature of the community to seeing some demi-batterie and two-decker ships of equivalent power to the in-game fifth-rate and sixth-rate before the next major poll, in part because it'd be good to show the earlier type of frigate and in part because I think they'd add quite a bit to small and medium ship gameplay.

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I´m at work right now, but I´ll post the plans I have this evening (or tomorrow. With a weather like this, the Biergarten is calling :P).

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Here we go:

 

La Gloire 1707

 

Sweepstakes

 

Gosport  1707

Success 1712

 

 

And a contemporary model of a french 40-ship, Le Triton:

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66343.html#46RWxO8jIIIVywGM.97

Model of a sixth-rate sloop ca. 1715

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66368.html#prU2w48PcghBSlQ0.97

 

No plan for Les Jeux, but a Van de Velde drawing:

 

Edited by Malachi
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I may be about 2 years too late on this thread, but if you're interested in the Armaments for the L'Amazone, 3Deck has a listing for the information regarding a ship of that name.  I'm guessing you want the information on the ship that was laid down in 1706.

 

Lower Gun Deck:   8 French 12-Pounder
Upper Gun Deck:   26 French 8-Pounder
Quarterdeck/Forecastle:  8 French 4-Pounder

 

Can't help but wonder how this file now looks (or if it remains a work in progress). 

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