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Sacri

World size and ship speed solution

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Hi there, I decided to make my own topic about this to go in depth, using diagrams, about opinions against downscaling the map, and misconceptions as to why this would/would not work. As well as ship speed, and the sailing model in the open world mode.

 

This is  my first post, so I'll also say, hi there everyone, I'm Sacri! Nice to meet you all and I look forward to sharing some opinions and suggestions. I'm not a very serious person but I'm going to try my best to be direct/straightforward and professional seeming, to help get my opinion across clearly and hopefully without being bothersome. I hope I do a good job! :3

 

 

 

Before talking about the topic: I recently purchased a key and haven't had a chance to personally play the game yet, although, from what I've seen so far, the ships in the open world go really fast. In my opinion, this is not a problem, but can definitely be improved. From the videos I've seen, it looks like the ships don't have manual sail adjusting and such, in the open world mode, which is my main problem with the game. But until I can personally try the game, I'll start talking about the world size stuff, and addressing some of the stuff I saw people saying in another topic.

 

 

 

The topic

 

 

 

The main problem is that (almost) every person that discusses this, wants to compromise one thing for the other, and the people that have had the solution that, in my opinion, is the best solution, it has been mis interpreted by everyone.

 

 

 

The problem is that the current ship speed seems very unnatural, and fast, to make up for the world size being so large. And people all want different things as a solution (or some people like it how it is and don't want any solution, I'm sure).

 

The solutions to this, that people have suggested so far, have been either to slow the ship down, and just put up with how long it would take (days at the most) to go from one point to another with a slow ship.

 

The proper solution, that only one or two people have suggested, which is to scale the world to be smaller, has been mis interpreted by everyone that I've seen so far (I apologize if I'm wrong about this)

 

 

The misconception

 

The misconception most people seem to have when they read about peoples ideas to both lower the ship speed to a realistic value, as well as "shrink" or "downscale" the map, is that they think that the map is going to become a mini version of what it is now.

 

 

 

fd1079439d.png

 

 

In this diagram, assuming that the diagram explains the current game speed and map scale, we can see that it would take us 80 minutes to travel from Island 1, to Island 2.

During 60 minutes of that travel time, you would not be able to see any island, but, if travelling with others, you would be able to see that your ships are going very unrealistically fast. And clearly, if we were just to lower the speed (half, for example, as in the diagram), it would make the travel time very difficult/long for a game, especially for people who don't have much time in their day for the extra time.

 

 

So if we were to slow down the ship, and want to solve the time it takes now that we've done that, the solution would be to change the scale of the map. The misconception is that most people thinks this means that the size of an island would change, like so:

 

80a80539f1.png

 

 

 

 

 

The solution

 

The solution is simply this:

 

39c33f4667.png

 

 

In conclusion, there is no real solution without a compromise, as well as how keeping the current fast-sailing speed is also a compromise, compromising realistic sailing to gain time, and not waste it. I'm sure there is a better middle ground though, with less compromise.

 

But as far as I can see, because of the large coastline, I don't know if the community or the developers would want to do something like this. The map would be a little warped but from an in game sailing perspective everything would probably still be fine.

 

Since I haven't yet gotten my key in the email, I don't know if this is the case, but as I said earlier, it looks on videos like we don't get a realistic sailing model (not talking about the speed) in the open world. So I feel like if the developers gave us the sailing model that lets us adjust our sails and everything else in the open world, but kept the speed how it is, it would also be nice.

 

Anyway, thanks for reading, or skimming! I strained myself to sound distant and serious, so please don't think of me that way.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong about some things, and I hope you guys liked my diagrams! (I don't think they're that good) ^-^

 

- Sacri

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Nice to meet you all and I look forward to sharing some opinions and suggestions. 

Before talking about the topic: I recently purchased a key and haven't had a chance to personally play the game yet

 

My suggestion is to play first  :)

Roll a French. Visit Louisiana. Travel to bermuda for cheap goods, bring them back to fort de france. 

Then we talk again about speed and solutions

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First of all, for a first post this is more thorough than most others, so credits for that.

 

Second of all, the idea has a bit of a flaw in it. This idea stands and falls on the assumption that island are outside of view range of each other. I can already tell you that in, for example the area around Oranjestad, they aren't.

Many area's in the game have island already so close to each other they form a narrow gap where often big ships can't even sail trough. With shrinking the seas in between, i can't see how that would make those areas accessible again.

Edited by SteelSandwich
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The problem with the Caribbean of course is that 1) it's freaking massive, and 2) a lot of it is empty.

 

Now the travel times are good, think a good balance has been reached there, but speed of movement feels too fast and the small scale make it hard to come up with believable islands/ports. You've got a port that takes up a good chunk of an island, but you're sitting outside that port in a ship that towers over the buildings, dwarfs the town, takes up the entire anchorage on it's own. Scale down the ship to fit the land size, movement will feel even faster, scale the ship up so speed feels better and the land/ship ratio is even worse. Bleh.

 

What you'd want to do then (similar idea to the above) is build a map based on the caribbean rather than a scaled replica.

 

IE, take the surrounding landmasses of the caribbean and scale them to about 2/3rds of what they are currently. Then for the islands, place them in roughly the correct positions but scaled up to about 150-200% current size (will have to adjust island shapes a bit so they fit together with suitable gaps). Then adjust landmarks/ports etc so it all looks right.

 

Because the overall map is now smaller you can reduce ship speeds to 2/3rds current which will feel more natural and yet keep the travel times as they are. Plus, the islands/ports will be bigger and look better in scale to the ships, so it's win/win.

 

admin, I think you've already started to do something like this, making islands bigger/more distinct, noticed the changes to EH/Charlestown/Oranjestad area?

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Good effort into your first post! Welcome to the game and the diagrams are nice. I do not see an issue with the travel time and compression and all that. As admin stated try sailing across the map and back in one sitting without using your TP you will then be happy with the travel time as well :)  . The only thing i would like to "Scale" would be the ship size to port size as has been examined in detail in another post. 

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Hello everyone, my first post aswell.

Even knowing its not gonna be as long as the topic starter.

 

I think the current system is fine with the travel speed.

The only "solution" I can imagine is to bring out a completly new map (not like the real world) where you can scale everything like you need it.

So the question simply is do you want

 

1) a realistic world behaviour + resources depending on the ports like it (nearly) was in history 

or

2) a smaller scaled map where that you can size as you like it to solve the speed problem and maybe get slower ships in OW with a realistic feeling of acutally sailing (similar to the "battle sailing")

 

So you need to decide: Realistic world + unrealistic fast ships or fantasy world + correctly behaving ships

You should also keep in mind, that the 2nd option takes a lot of new work for the dev team to design that world...

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the system as it is is what we get. scaling has and is being changed, just look at Goat island! if you do not know what that is check out the island between plymouth and charlestown. Its a lot different then it looked in the beginning. It used to be just a small island with a few trees now its a giant rock. If you google that island it looks rather like what it does in game. 

 

 

And nick Glad you posted hope you post more :) 

Edited by Young

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My suggestion is to play first  :)

 

Definitely :3 I'm looking forwards to it, I've been looking for a good 1800's ship game for years.

 

 

First of all, for a first post this is more thorough than most others, so credits for that.

 

Second of all, the idea has a bit of a flaw in it.

 

Thanks! While I was writing this I was looking forward to the flaws people would point out about my idea. Not all the islands would have to be scaled closer by the way. But I see your point, and from what others said. When I looked at a map of the Caribbean, it looks like it would be really difficult to rescale it in any way to where there wouldn't be some problem. So I'm sorry that I wasn't thinking so clearly when I wrote all of this, I've just been searching for a realistic ship game for a long time, hehe.

 

 

So you need to decide: Realistic world + unrealistic fast ships or fantasy world + correctly behaving ships

You should also keep in mind, that the 2nd option takes a lot of new work for the dev team to design that world...

Wow, a fictional redesign of the map with real ship speeds would be really nice, you're right! Though I don't think it would be rational of me to ask, hope, or expect for that. My main hope is that we get full manual sails and everything in the open world sailing control, and then the speed feeling would be fine.

 

Also welcome to the forums, Nick, since you came in right after me :3 Yay, I can welcome new people now!

 

 

 

Good effort into your first post! Welcome to the game and the diagrams are nice.

 

Thank you very much! And I agree with you about the travel times being okay, I hear it can take ~3 hours to travel further distances. I'm just worried the ship might feel too light, and quick. I'm sure it wont be that bad though, I'm really looking forwards to trying the instanced sailing controls though. Also, goat island sounds neat! I'll try to look at it when I get my key.

 

The first place I'll be going is Codrington, since I saw that area on an imgur page and it looked nice.

 

 

Thanks for all of the replies so far everyone!

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Yeah this issue keeps getting beat to death by new players.  I'm just gonna say my piece one last time: 

 

- The issue is not the distance of the map, it has a nice size, travel times are good, I like the getting lost at sea possibility and the grand scale of the world.

- The ship speed can't be slowed down or then the map takes way too long to cross.

- I don't think the map should be scaled down either, as the land masses have a good size already.  A lot of the archipelagos in the Caribbean would look arcadey and unnatural if you shrunk them anymore.

 

You guys need to understand the real fundamental problem has to do with two things based upon our perception.

1) The buoyancy (especially noticeable in smaller ships)

2) The way we see the waves as our ship moves over them

 

The buoyancy they are working on right now I guess.  The 2nd part is the rate at which our ships cross the waves.  What they need to do is figure out a way where once the ship accelerates over like 5 knots (where I feel the speed over the waves begins to look unrealistic), that some kind of custom methods are applied to the water and waves itself to try and spread the waves out dynamically with the speed of the ship.  This would provide the optical illusion that you are traveling vastly slower than you actually are compared to today's warp speed setup.  i.e. a ship at 5 or 15 knots should not break a wave's peak more than once every 3 seconds (yeah I just made up that rule).  The 'wavelengths', for lack of a better term, would have to be dynamic with the ship speed and local to each person's client only.  So player A passing player B, they each just see the waves relative to their own ship.  It wouldn't be perfect, as it would probably break down in that scenario where you have multiple ships traveling at different speeds very close to each other, but that scenario does not happen most of the time when you are sailing.  

 

 

One last quick thing that i think they could do in the interim until they do apply a long term solution, is to give us yard controls back in OW so we can turn sharper.

Edited by Booyaah
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You guys need to understand the real fundamental problem has to do with two things based upon our perception.

1) The buoyancy (especially noticeable in smaller ships)

2) The way we see the waves as our ship moves over them

 

I believe I saw another post where the buoyancy issue is known but the devs are saving it for after other major work is done. 

 

As to number 2 you bring up an interesting point, I had been thinking too that the problem is how fast your ship looks as compared to the rest of the world not moving at the same speed. I was thinking if it would be possible to adjust the speed that the environment moves retaliative to your ships speed.

 

I'll try to clarify...if the waves near your ship were moving at a different speed (then they are now) it would make your ships speed look different. It would take some playing around with the "speed values" but I think it could work. Note: I'm not a programmer or a graphical artist so this is just something I thought of while playing the other day.

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I do like the premise of the idea that once out of sight of land you should be able to travel at great speed. It's a nice idea. But it presents  a lot of problems because most people stay in sight of land and it would not be a lot of fun to have somebody warp speed ahead of you by "working the line" in and out so to speak.

 

As for the way the game works. My friends tend to be at different ports when we get on together so the one shot teleport every 7hrs is a godsend.

Even at the accelerated speeds in game it can take 30 minutes or more to sight each other and start playing. If open world was slowed at any point to normal speed it would be unmanageable for groups; in a reasonable time anyways.

 

I personally think the mechanic is fine and that most people just want the ship to LOOK like it is going SLOWLY even though it is accelerated. The devs may have to try some tricks of the eye to make this work... 

 

Welcome by the way. I look forward to seeing you in game and listening to\reading your feedback. 

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I like the open world the way it is now, with the abstract travel time between places, only thing I would like to see changed is a player can drop out of the abstract OW at any time not just when entering battle, perhaps just leaving a ship Icon in the open world or some other kind of signifier to allow other players and ships to see there's something there perhaps allowing them to drop in and engage or what ever.  I would also like for the instances to be relevant to where you drop out.  For talking sake if I was to drop out around Charlestown port, when I entered the instance I would still see the port, just a more detailed version as well as the surrounding landscape.  Or if I dropped out in the middle of nowhere then I would just have the sea around me. 

 

Not sure if this could ever happen but that's the way I'd like it to be.

Edited by Detonator
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There could be an even easier solution: 

 

Just slow down the wave/ship animation.

 

You don't need to alter the reality of the game, just the perception of that reality.

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I like the open world the way it is now, with the abstract travel time between places, only thing I would like to see changed is a player can drop out of the abstract OW at any time not just when entering battle, perhaps just leaving a ship Icon in the open world or some other kind of signifier to allow other players and ships to see there's something there perhaps allowing them to drop in and engage or what ever.  I would also like for the instances to be relevant to where you drop out.  For talking sake if I was to drop out around Charlestown port, when I entered the instance I would still see the port, just a more detailed version as well as the surrounding landscape.  Or if I dropped out in the middle of nowhere then I would just have the sea around me. 

 

Not sure if this could ever happen but that's the way I'd like it to be.

awesome idea. Was just thinking this today for avoiding reefs or tacking practice.

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That's exactly what I mean, give's everyone the ability to drop out of the open world at any point and be able to do a bit of real sailing though some of their favourite places. 

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Would have been awesome to have a relation between world and travel map similar to Age of Pirates II

 

 

Eh, I don't know.  I like that Naval Action you aren't sailing on a map looking thing but a World that looks real.

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at first i was a little turned off by the map speed, but i think its ok. id keep it as it is right now.

 

i wonder when the buoyancy in OW is fixed, if the ship will jump through the waves erratic, it may look weird when the ship follow the waves perfectly at this fast speed. right now it looks quiet gentle and easy on the eyes. 

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The main problem I find is the lack of realism. Superspeed, buoyancy and waves' sizes make it feel toyish and it detracts from the fidelity the game had in the Arena.

 

I hope a solution can be found, and there are some excellent suggestions in this thread.

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Noticed the issue a lot with the Cutter, sometimes it seems like I'm floating way over the waves, it looks rather odd. 

 

TRG5q7d.jpg

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