Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
Tomms123

Pirates enter friendly side in battle to escape

Recommended Posts

To elaborate my though on Raathas suggestion if they then group up together why not give the group a own colour so they can by ease see whos in group or not in the battle.

 

And I like Raathas idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if you want realism there is no way in hell a british naval officer is going to raise a French flag on his ship to help the frenchies fight some swedes or whatever. It's a game....certain concessions are going to need to be made. why does everyone want the pirate faction to be the ones that make any of those concessions? Make everyone play by the same rules isn't really a bad game design if you ask me....I mean you can do much worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I concur that Nations should not be helping other unless there is an alliance with those they are helping or war with those they are fighting. But that is for a diplomacy set of rules to resolve, should we get those.

A pirate sailing in company with another pirate, attacking each other when a national vessel appears so that they cannot be attacked is an exploit of a mechanic.

A pirate jumping in the fight on the side of those the pirate is running from, on the side that set out to sink said pirate, is an exploit of a mechanic.

The defense of exploits and the assertion that pirates need exploits to be on a level playing field I cannot understand.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say it is more just a dumb game mechanic all the way around. It is even more absurd that Nationals can "change" their flag and attack whomever when in reality such action could spark an all out war between nations. That is even more absurd than a pirate captain hoisting up some random national flag if you ask me. However, at the end of the day the whole thing from all sides you want to talk about is a bit absurd. So yep all in agreement....completely re-work the reinforcement mechanic for all nations I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest raat

I would agree about the flags.  Logically, to me though, that's more that the matchmaker can't discern more than 1 nation per team.  If it could be that we could enter the battle on the same team, but keep our flags, I would definitely be for that and it would be an improvement.

 

That's more of a system issue than a game mechanic though.  As roleplay wise, you can just pretend you are allied with the nation you sided with when you entered the battle.  It's hard to make that disconnect though with Pirates.  And the other issues raised with regards to the abuses capable by Pirates that aren't really possible for Nationals, makes it more of an issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just roleplay that, as a pirate, I am joining the side to fight on whomever is offering the most lucrative option. As the game develops though there should be zero national reinforcements unless said nations are officially allied.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Look tis Captain Blackbeard - open fire.....NO NO NO WAIT !!! damn my eyes he's flying a The British Flag, oh well better let him go then...!"

 

My suggestion

 

After committing sufficient 'crimes' a National player will be disavowed by its current Nation and be labelled a Pirate.

 

The pirate can fly whatever National flag he chooses as a 'Ruse de guerre' (Hiding its identity or nationality), however All ships including other pirates should have a chance of seeing through the Ruse. After being correctly identified, then there is a timer before the Ruse can be repeated until then the Jolly Roger fly's.

 

During battle the Jolly Roger will be raised at the first exchange of shots. Once raised the pirate remains a viable target for ALL national ships in the instance AI or Player.

 

Note, A Nations enemies would ALWAYS be a preferred target than a pirate, This would allow the pirate to slip away during the National vs National confrontation.

 

Pirates should be free to attack who they like including other pirates but once identified in an instance they should retain their pirate flag, not become a Spaniard or other.

 

We need recognised National Flags and also Allied markers in battle which a pirate would not be able to gain, he will remain a pirate for all / any side to freely engage without penalties. The only reason a pirate enters an instance is to mingle with shipping to avoid contact or to engage them.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not decent fights when 2 pirate pavels attack single brit brigs 5 mins out of the capital. Least the yankes moved shop after the tak about changing the ROE came about...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading extensively about the game mechanics, I am puzzled to see some Pirate players here trying to defend this, calling it an "evasion tactic" and saying that everyone just wants it to be unfair for Pirates, so it's fair for Pirates to gank lonely/weaker Nation ships, but when a bunch of Nation players come after them for doing so, they abuse a game mechanic to escape and call that fair?. Plus Pirate is meant to be a unique faction and will be difficult to play, life WAS hard for Pirates, that's the whole point, but the fun is succeeding even in the difficulties. I'm not saying it should be impossible for Pirates, but there is a line and Pirate players take on the role as Pirate with the knowledge that it isn't going to be as easy as playing Nation.

 

Nations that aren't allies with eachother shouldn't be allowed to join battles involving different Nations, yes I agree with that ( if Nation politics ever get to the point  to allow Nations to help eachother out ), the same as Pirates shouldn't be allowed to join Nations battles, or if they do, as suggested in another thread, make the Pirates a THIRD team so that even if they do tag in a battle to try abuse game mechanics to escape, chances are you may still be able to join the battle and attack them in the instance, or even be attacked by the players already in the instance.

 

When I play a Pirate I don't want to convince myself I am good at it by abusing game mechanics to escape Navies, casting an illusion over the fact I am not that good and I am just another griefer abusing the game mechanics. I think there is definitely a solution but it will take some thinking and time to fix this issue, but any Pirate trying to justify this abuse of game mechanics as fair, is delusional and doesn't really want to see the Pirates played how they should be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say it is more just a dumb game mechanic all the way around. It is even more absurd that Nationals can "change" their flag and attack whomever when in reality such action could spark an all out war between nations. That is even more absurd than a pirate captain hoisting up some random national flag if you ask me. However, at the end of the day the whole thing from all sides you want to talk about is a bit absurd. So yep all in agreement....completely re-work the reinforcement mechanic for all nations I guess.

 

Initially in the OW nations could not enter other national battles. We have allowed it to increase pvp during testing. This can easily be switched off in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The way I see it there are 2 edge cases in regards to pirates, that you could make a special set of rules to deal with them

1) If there is a pirate v pirate battle and you are a national, it would say, 'join as national' instead and then it would send a popup to the pirates when you entered asking them if they want to join the same side, if they decline then it would be a 3 sided battle with all 3 sides red to each other (pirateA v pirateB v national).  Or you could just auto-combine them without their consent and just display a popup that says 'a greater enemy is nearby' lol.

 

2) If a pirate joins a nation's side in an ongoing battle, you could join the battle on the same nation's side with them, but there would a button for 'inspect ship', that would switch them to a 3rd pirate faction and they would be red to both nationals' sides.   Maybe the mechanic would be you have to stay within 100m of the 'suspected' pirate ship for 30 seconds before it reveals their true identity.  Then you could attack them without repercussion.

Edited by Booyaah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If pirates enter a battle between 2 nationals, then the nationals call truce and cease fighting each other long enough to dispatch the pirates before resuming their battle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they should add each ship's faction/country to the tab screen as well so you can see ppl from other countries on your side

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They should also indicate whether ships are AI as there are several people who have created characters with AI names.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They should also indicate whether ships are AI as there are several people who have created characters with AI names.

 

Should be a naming rule put in place to prevent this.. Also those that made a character with such a name either have to rename or delete the character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree this is an abuse of a mechanic.  I don't want to see pirates joining my side and have to worry about them firing on me so that suggestion is out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They should also indicate whether ships are AI as there are several people who have created characters with AI names.

Should be a naming rule put in place to prevent this.. Also those that made a character with such a name either have to rename or delete the character.

Do you mean an 'AI' name in that they use a forename & surname or that they specifically copy the AI names? If it's the former, I would be most dismayed if I were not allowed to fight under the psuedonym I prefer. I don't like using tags such as 'Demolisher99' or what have you, but I do like using a forename and a surname. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They should also indicate whether ships are AI as there are several people who have created characters with AI names.

 

It does not matter guys :) seriously think this through please. 

 

It does not matter how the player is named. If he gets a friendly kill in stats he has a problem.

Does not matter if it is AI name, on unrecognizable letters. or whatnot. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn't really talking about friendly fire situation. If AI enemy reinforcements arrive in a battle my reaction will be very different than if player enemy reinforcment arrives. I don't really want to have to sit and observe an AI player for awhile to determine if they are actually human.

Taking AI names so players don't know if you are AI or not when you enter a battle just seems a bit trollish to me.

Do you mean an 'AI' name in that they use a forename & surname or that they specifically copy the AI names? If it's the former, I would be most dismayed if I were not allowed to fight under the psuedonym I prefer. I don't like using tags such as 'Demolisher99' or what have you, but I do like using a forename and a surname.

Yes, I mean they specifically copy known AI names (like "Ben Grog") and so are completely indistinguishable from AI in the TAB list of players. Logically AI names should be reserved just as another player's name would be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why worry about if a ship is Ai or not?

As long as we fight them we can tell the differences between Ai and players. Players do smarter moves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love that mechanic that pirates can join a nation cause for example later in the game if some nations lead big wars the pirates can hired to fight with one nation like mercenary.

Edited by haiduc18

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can we please stop badmouthing pirates, we work hard to find decent fights and we have to try to avoid unnecessary battles because out ports are so few and so far from any decent trade route.

And this game is for everybody to enjoy, pirates are the hard nation so we should be allowed the same rights as nationals. Maybe the battle joining is crazy but I don't think we can do anything about that.

And all those pirates reading this his will agree that when port battles come in our job will get even harder, we will be down to Mathew town for out only support. We need any help we can get.

And NO pirates have to remain in game because many famous pirates roamed the age of sail era trade routes in search of plunder and prizes. Getting rid of pirates would eliminate any historical accuracy.

The Neutrals are a different story, as the Devs claim the ports won't last 5 mins, they are the pirates targets because only we can attack them without major consequences and they may not even be in the finished game.

Okay, maybe we don't do much PvP or anything but that's because we are brethren so when we join a national battle we have a CHOICE to run OR fight. Don't stereotype our mannerisms and behaviour patterns as cowards who run just because you have had one or two experiences where this happens. When we have no allies around we have to make choices that will tick others off (unless it's a santi) and you nationals have to accept this.

Maybe the Devs will rework pirates but don't forget this is alpha so for the time being we do what we have to in order to survive.

 

The problem here is that as a pirate you of course want more power for the pirates. Where in actual fact they should almost always be less powerful than nations.... but have more relaxed morals and moral rules in game. I do think pirates need to be reworked to be much LESS like a nation.

 

This includes not even knowing they are pirates because the game mechanics should perhaps give pirates the option to raise false colours and the like. Pirates should have a few options to blend in. But once discovered they should indeed show their colours and be chased by all nations.

 

I don't understand why those that want to play criminals want to be treated like a legitimate nation just because hollywood makes them seem sexy and powerful on screen?

The pirates life should be one of nervous attack in a small ship exactly like those out of somalia or indonesia in 2015. Who would equate their ships to the navies chasing them? In Naval Action the incidences of pirates actually attacking naval vessels should be tiny... in real life they would almost always run from naval vessels.

https://icc-ccs.org/piracy-reporting-centre/live-piracy-map

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand why those that want to play criminals want to be treated like a legitimate nation just because hollywood makes them seem sexy and powerful on screen?

The pirates life should be one of nervous attack in a small ship exactly like those out of somalia or indonesia in 2015. Who would equate their ships to the navies chasing them? In Naval Action the incidences of pirates actually attacking naval vessels should be tiny... in real life they would almost always run from naval vessels.

https://icc-ccs.org/piracy-reporting-centre/live-piracy-map

 

I don't understand why everyone that wants to argue against pirates (whether the Hollywood version or otherwise) feels the need to superimpose the image and idea of criminality onto the players. Do you really think that when we log off of Naval Action we go out and rob, rape, and pilfer? 

 

And always with comparing it to modern piracy (which I would argue no one is advocating) to try to disenfranchise us. Especially since the institution of privateering (and then its subsequent abolition in 1856) heavily blurred the line between legitimate privateering and piracy, making it far less explicit than in the modern day. Add the fact that pirates during the golden age where (mostly) former  Navy sailors compared to the modern pirate. 

 

Destreaux, I know for a fact that you can make good arguments and counterarguments to piracy without sulking to this low tactic. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you really think that when we log off of Naval Action we go out and rob, rape, and pilfer? 

 

 

Yes!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...