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Tomms123

Pirates enter friendly side in battle to escape

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Okey so we were about 6 british players grouping up in response of the pirates attacking smaller ship at English Harbour. We find one of them and chase him down and there is two battles going infront of us and both got british sides in it. So he joins in one of these battles to escape us. We're not allowed to go in and sink him as he joined the British side.

 

What I request is that if a pirate joins in a battle just to escape from you and they join your nationals side you should be allowed to sink him and you should not count as a pirate.

Or that if someone joins your nation battle if they're a diffrent national they should have their own national flag flying on their ship. Here Im unsure if they should be counted as a diffrent national taking part in the battle or be counted as that nation you join but you fly your own national flag. 

Or just some way to prevent this escaping by joining the same nations side as your chasers.

Edited by Tomms123
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Guest raat

Pirates shouldn't be allowed to join a National vs. National battle, period.  Solves this problem.

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I think your allowed to sink known pirates in battle as long as you dont mind loosing xp?

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Maybe we should get rid of these "sides" in battles, and just go by flags. Would be a bit more complicated, since suddenly more than just two factions can be in one battle at the same time, but a bit more realistic.

I know that it would be very hard for the system to detect who is the winner and who is the looser in a battle, and when the battle is over, but maybe we should get rid of that too. When all enemies are sunk you have that "leave" timer, and when noone is shooting anymore for however long they can leave. Since xp and money do not depend on winning or losing the battle (I think) it is not needed to set terms for win and lose.
Or, implement a politics system, so that the system knows which sides are friendly to each other and which are at war.

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Guest raat

Nope.  Nationals cannot friendly fire.  Even if they are pirates.  And Nationals are strongly discouraged (called cowardly by Admin) to raise the pirate flag.  Meaning if you're chasing pirates, they can attack each other and you can't enter their battle without either being considered a coward and/or being threatened to be turned into a pirate by admin.

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This issue seems to be along the line of: 'I'm being chased, let attack a bigger fleet so my enemies cant join against me because of battle rating'.

 

The suggestion of Raatha goes a long way in solving OP's problem.

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That was one of our ideas aswell while we were sitting outside the battle.
Pirates (not the players) are scum and criminals and all nations should have pirates as No. 1 enemy.
We cannot / must not join pirate battles so it only seems resonable that the "hardcore" faction is not allowed to do it the other way around.

Edited by BlueEagleGER
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If you pay me, i will join on your side of the battle. May the highest bidder win!

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This issue seems to be along the line of: 'I'm being chased, let attack a bigger fleet so my enemies cant join against me because of battle rating'.

 

The suggestion of Raatha goes a long way in solving OP's problem.

Its the same just that he escaped by joining the same side as our national side to escape us. If he had joined the other side he would had been dead, he would have been dead if he didnt join that battle too.

 

Its a hard nut to crack how this should be resolved. But the idea I like most right now in this thread is mirror452s suggestion.

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This game mechanic is the same for everyone not just pirates is it not?

No, as if there is a British vs French battle the pirate can chose anyone. We as nationals cant, if we're british we need to join the British side (kinda obvious why).

So if a pirate gets chased as he did in this case he will not join the opposite side of the nationals he's being chased by.

That is the only reason he got away that he joined in on the British side if he had joined in on the French side he would of been dead. If there had been no battles there he had been dead.

So he escaped only because he joined the british side and by that we're not allowed to sink him as he's under british flag in that battle.

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Guest raat

This game mechanic is the same for everyone not just pirates is it not?

 

On top of what Tomms123 just said above,  Admin has made it clear Nationals are strongly discouraged to NEVER join a Pirate side in battle.  Since Pirates can fight Pirate v. Pirate to escape battle....see the dilemma.

 

Also, Nationals are threatened with becoming a Pirate if they join a Pirate side and then fire on the Pirates.  Even if they are clearly not there to be friends.  Because teamkilling is never ok for Nationals.

 

Right now, the game's ROE mechanics are stacked largely in favor of Pirates (and even more so in favor of Neutrals).  Might as well, not chase a Pirate.  Not worth your time if the Pirate is smart.

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If it were a British vs. French and you were Swede you could pick anyone to reinforce though. If it were Pirate vs. French and I was a Pirate I would reinforce the Pirate side.....I don't believe this is unique to pirates in the least. I will say I don't agree with pirate vs pirate but whenever I bring that up I get called a carebear.

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If you as a swedish find a french vs pirate fight, you face SERIOUS consequences when you join pirates (demotion to J. Lft / forced to join pirate faction) acording to Admin in the Tribunal.

I am using a mobile device here so I cannot quote it, sry.

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Pirates are dastardly characters.... you don't expect them to turn and fight honorably to a noble death do you ?

 

They will blend with national convoys, raise false flags and slip off into the dark of night......

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Can we please stop badmouthing pirates, we work hard to find decent fights and we have to try to avoid unnecessary battles because out ports are so few and so far from any decent trade route.

And this game is for everybody to enjoy, pirates are the hard nation so we should be allowed the same rights as nationals. Maybe the battle joining is crazy but I don't think we can do anything about that.

And all those pirates reading this his will agree that when port battles come in our job will get even harder, we will be down to Mathew town for out only support. We need any help we can get.

And NO pirates have to remain in game because many famous pirates roamed the age of sail era trade routes in search of plunder and prizes. Getting rid of pirates would eliminate any historical accuracy.

The Neutrals are a different story, as the Devs claim the ports won't last 5 mins, they are the pirates targets because only we can attack them without major consequences and they may not even be in the finished game.

Okay, maybe we don't do much PvP or anything but that's because we are brethren so when we join a national battle we have a CHOICE to run OR fight. Don't stereotype our mannerisms and behaviour patterns as cowards who run just because you have had one or two experiences where this happens. When we have no allies around we have to make choices that will tick others off (unless it's a santi) and you nationals have to accept this.

Maybe the Devs will rework pirates but don't forget this is alpha so for the time being we do what we have to in order to survive.

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Guest raat

This isn't about bad-mouthing Pirates.  It's about game mechanics.  Suggesting there needs to be changes to Pirate mechanics has nothing to do with the actual Pirate players.

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Captain Comery this is just as Raatha said not bad mouthing the pirates but the game mechanic that they can join a battle to escape their chasers. I dont see a bad in they join in a battle what I see bad is that they can join the same national as they're being chased by and this not let us sink the pirate by rule as they then fly under our flag and thus making if we sink or attack the pirate we either get demoted or turned into pirates.

Only reason we even went on this pirate player is because he had been part of ganking british players at EH. So we rounded up to hunt these people down and we even chased two of them down half way to Venezuela. They slipped away too but only because 2 US players (couple mins after start of the engagment a belle poule and santi joins their side) engaged one of our ships so we valued that higher.

 

So to short it down, we're not against pirates we're against that they can join in on a battle and get away by joining the same nationl as its chaser and thus not letting us sink it.

Edited by Tomms123

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can pirate join ur side in battle then tk u  no matter what? do they loose exp like we do?

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To shorten what I said down, Pirates join battles to leave because we need to evade to survive and if they stayed in the battle to the end they would be attacked when they leave. Just call this an evasion tactic.

And you seem to forget there is a timer saying when you can leave.

But Tomms, if this is a ganking method then I support you to the max.

Edited by Captain Comery

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OK, so we are talking about a few specific scenarios so let's be very clear about those:

 

1. Pirates potentially attacking other Pirates to avoid combat with Nationals.

 

2. Pirates having the ability to join an existing battle with one of the belligerents being the same as a pursuer(s) thus preventing them from joining.

 

These are the only two discussions or scenarios that we should be discussing. The other game mechanics allowing for reinforcement are the same for all other factions and are not specific one way or the other to pirates. As is typically the case I don't know if the answer is an easy one and here is why. In order to avoid the first scenario you would have to do away with Pirate vs Pirate, I make no denial that I have wanted Pirate vs Pirate to go away for a variety of exploitable reasons and I believe this still to be the case. That would actually be an easy one to fix if you did that, however, there are a lot of Nationals who want us just to be a place for douchebags and trolls to call home....might have to decide which side you support.

 

The second one is a bit more complicated because you would have to either create a system that prevented "marked" players from joining an existing battle or completely do away with the current reinforcement mechanic. Having pirates be the only ones who can't join an existing battle wouldn't be fair in the least and so everyone would be effected by this change. Alternatively, you could have something like "marking" a target that perhaps could then prevent them from joining an existing battle from the same side as the markee.....but I can see easily exploitable problems with that already.

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Guest raat

OK, so we are talking about a few specific scenarios so let's be very clear about those:

 

1. Pirates potentially attacking other Pirates to avoid combat with Nationals.

 

2. Pirates having the ability to join an existing battle with one of the belligerents being the same as a pursuer(s) thus preventing them from joining.

 

These are the only two discussions or scenarios that we should be discussing. The other game mechanics allowing for reinforcement are the same for all other factions and are not specific one way or the other to pirates. As is typically the case I don't know if the answer is an easy one and here is why. In order to avoid the first scenario you would have to do away with Pirate vs Pirate, I make no denial that I have wanted Pirate vs Pirate to go away for a variety of exploitable reasons and I believe this still to be the case. That would actually be an easy one to fix if you did that, however, there are a lot of Nationals who want us just to be a place for douchebags and trolls to call home....might have to decide which side you support.

 

The second one is a bit more complicated because you would have to either create a system that prevented "marked" players from joining an existing battle or completely do away with the current reinforcement mechanic. Having pirates be the only ones who can't join an existing battle wouldn't be fair in the least and so everyone would be effected by this change. Alternatively, you could have something like "marking" a target that perhaps could then prevent them from joining an existing battle from the same side as the markee.....but I can see easily exploitable problems with that already.

 

Honestly, to me, the solution for both of those things are:

 

Pirates are 'red' (enemies) to everyone.  Pirates don't have teams.  They can be placed on one side of battle by the matchmaker, but they are still 'red' (enemy) to both sides of the battle.  There's no possible loss of XP/gold for teamkilling because Pirates are never on a team per se.

 

If Pirates want to team up, that's fine.  They can just make note of their 'teammates' and not shoot one another.  But hitting them would not result in a loss of XP/gold.

 

This would allow Pirates to join National battles and still be targeted.  Join Pirate v. Pirate battles and allow any Pirate to target any other without losing XP/gold.  And allow Nationals to enter Pirate v. Pirate battles and not be called a coward for 'teamkilling'.

 

 

However, if making each Pirate enemy to everyone isn't going to happen, then Pirates shouldn't be allowed in National v. National battles because no respectable nation would accept their help, and would kill known Pirates on sight.  It stands up to roleplay and disallows abuse of game mechanics.

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I was actually just thinking the exact same thing as what Raatha posted, and was about to add the same thought to the conversation.

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