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Boarding changes feedback.

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Please Maturin..elaborate on why deck control was important...

 

 

If you've taken the deck, you control the sails, the wheel, and you can haul down the flag. You've driven off all the officers.

 

The crew will surrender, because if they resist they can just be locked below decks or driven beneath the waterline with grenades.

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Hello guys,

 

 

Everyone who posted all agree that boarding right now is to predictable and very easy if you re already prepared and get Marines complement.

 

To me the problem for the moment is that you don't take really a risk when you're boarding someone, you can easily heal your crew, then board an other ship or just continu the battle.

 

Boarding was not and should not be a little bussiness, it must brings consequences and be wisely considered by captains.

 

Here are some ideas wich could "force" players to board only if they have a real advantage to their opponent, forcing them to really use grappe before if they fight the same class of ships :

 

1) Remove the surgeon, to avoid this abuse who's not realistic and allows a lots of boarding and destroys the boarding hitself.

 

2) Change the command "Brace" by the default status "Fighting on deck". Brace remain a valid and interesting order if opponent is using guns or muskeys, but otherwise crew won't be hiding when their ship is attacked or when they are bording, can you imagine that in a real fight? Disengaging after an attack was just devastating for crew moral.  It makes me think of a big battle beetween a crew of Benny Hill :)

 

4)This new status "Fighting on deck" will cause more casualties for each crew each round, because now we have a lot of rounds beetween SOL where you loose only 1 man when bracing, that's quite unrealistic and we need to fix it.

 

5) Improve the penalty when your ship is under-crewed, like this a player won't take the risk to board an other ship if he doesn't have a real advantage of number, and let his ship after the capture with only 65% of crew.

 

6) Improve the overall casualties for each round and decrease a bit the power of Marines complement, this module is too unbalanced.

 

7) Maybe increase a bit the preparation points earned each round or lowered the coast of commands, to allow more feints.

Edited by verseaux

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in trafalgar, victory was almost board by fench redoutable.

It would probably have change the battle if the redoutable have succes to board but a brit first rate come and shoot with gun on french deck killing almost all the crew prepared to board.

 

I would suggest to make crew focus preparation more easy to kill with grape as all the crew is supposed to be on the deck.

 

Switching to focus preparation need to change the crew hitbox and put all of it on deck to allow others shisp to make massiv damage with grape.

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So, this may have been addressed earlier, but I think the disengage aspect of boarding needs to be buffed.  Essentially, it seems that if you successfully disengage, you need to get your sails up and get moving before you can fully disengage.

 

So I was just in a 1v1 in a Surprise (me) v. a Belle Poule.  The Belle Poule was losing badly, and had already popped two repairs, I forced him to ram me and lose his bowsprit, and I was about to pop my first repair.  When I was taken into boarding, as I expected I would be, I immediately went to disengage.  "Take me quickly, or you're going to be sunk."  Unable to do so, I disengaged, and he immediately just hit "G" again to reboard me, without me having a chance to get my sails up.

 

Each time I lost more people in the boarding (this happened 5 or 6 times, successively), my sails would be slower and slower to unfurl, causing me to be unable to get away.  In addition to this, I was automatically taken out of survival mode each time, and forced into boarding mode.  What ultimately happened is that since I was dragged into boarding again and again, the ship actually sank out from under me.

 

As a suggestion to fix this - Disengage should involve the re-setting of sails and building of speed.  If it just interrupts boarding briefly, it's not truly disengaging, but merely offering both sides a chance to exchange a hasty broadside if they're loaded.

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To successfully disengage, you need to burn the enemy's preparation. It's fine the way it is. If you are absolutely clueless and expect to just get away from a boarding, you are mistaken. 

 

If you expect to get boarded, why did you force him to ram you anyways. Sound more like a bad decision, than a game flaw to me. 

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Primarily to cause him to choose between sails and hull, since he had only the one repair left.

As far as "forcing someone to burn preparation," you primarily do that by repeatedly attacking, allowing him to just keep hitting defend, ja? Brace, if memory serves, requires no preparation, and is the counter for everything else.

The question here is "What is 'Disengage' truly supposed to do (in the grand scheme), and does the system as currently implemented accomplish this the best way possible?"

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If you get boarded by someone that is likely to win the boarding, you have already made a mistake and you will get punished for it.

 

The disengage button is there to possibly make up for that mistake, if your enemy messes up the boarding. 

 

If your enemy 1. Boarded you with a boarding advantage and 2. Plays out his boarding better than you, you deserve to loose because your enemy just fought better than you this fight. 

 

There are other reasons and ways to use the disengage button as well, but i will not go into detail on those, you will have to figure them out yourself. 

 

 

Over all: You get boarded by an enemy with more crew and more prep, you die, that's how it is, and that's how it's meant to be.

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So, right now you're talking about how it is, and that's fine, but I'm trying to see what the philosophy behind the disengage is, ie, what the goal of it is to truly accomplish and if what we're doing is matching up to that.  Right now, I don't believe that it is, because a disengage doesn't seem to truly disengage, rather, it merely interrupts.  If interruption is what the overall goal is, I would be curious as to the reasoning behind that.

 

Keep in mind, you're merely arguing for the status quo in an alpha where things are meant to receive feedback, questioned, and discussed.

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Not that long ago, i was fighting another player in a constitution, as i was in a renommee. I could see that he had lots of crew, its ship was obviously fitted for boarding. My renommee was fitted for max damage with two reload upgrades. I did some damage to him, but it was not even nearly sufficient to make this difference in fighting philosophies worth it. There was just no way for me to prevent the boarding. My smaller guns weren't enough to demast him, while its guns were demasting us (we were two against him in this fight, the other was an undermanned cerberus) with ease.

 

Finally, after he captured the cerberus, i decided that as i couldn't escape the boarding, i should as well do it on my terms. I prepared for boarding, and boarded him with 100 preparation, while he was only at 70. Well, he had 500 crew, i had 230, and obviously, he had also muskets and pistols. I still have more prep, so maybe if i could make the good decisions i could give him a hard time. It never happened.

 

The first round, he counter attacked, and i defended. There's no better action agaisnt attacking than defense. He had more crew, ok, but maybe i can win with morale? The results of this first round was me losing three times as many crew as him, while he lost 10 morale, and i lost 12... And here you have resumed the whole fight. For boarding, i have under hand a table that list all the best counters for every possible action. I didn't missed a single one, i had always the best counter selected. I was still losing my morale and crew faster than him.

 

I lost all my morale and men while he had many of both remaining.

 

So, was he better at boarding? No, he just had a ship that couldn't lose against me. I sometime wonder if he wouldn't have won even afk. After such a fight, i'm sorry to say that current boarding doesn't require any skill at all, all you need is the correct upgrades.

Edited by hoarmurath

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He outnumbered you more than 2:1, with all the best upgrades.

If you remove stern camping from the equation, you never could have defeated him in a straight up cannon fight either.

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So, was he better at boarding? No, he just had a ship that couldn't lose against me. I sometime wonder if he wouldn't have won even afk. After such a fight, i'm sorry to say that current boarding doesn't require any skill at all, all you need is the correct upgrades.

 

And what is exactly wrong with that? You go for boarding, when you know you can win. A ship that is rigged for boarding, has 200 crew more, that demasted you boarded you and you lost. Sounds fine to me. It would be an absolute failure of game design if you could upset such a difference because you are better at rock-paper-scissors.

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And what is exactly wrong with that? You go for boarding, when you know you can win. A ship that is rigged for boarding, has 200 crew more, that demasted you boarded you and you lost. Sounds fine to me. It would be an absolute failure of game design if you could upset such a difference because you are better at rock-paper-scissors.

 

Because pvpers will be whining all day about people running instead of fighting? Because i prefer my games to be skill based rather than just metagame based? Because historically, it's far from accurate?

 

Your choice... The gun fights are all about player skill, player skill at aiming the guns, player skill about manual trimming of the sails. The boarding is all about the metagame, either you have the right upgrades, or you don't... No skill...

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He would have beat you without upgrades, too. How did you expect to take down twice as many men?

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These commands are there bascially, so you don't get bored while waiting for the result, and to make EQUAL boardings less random. Your example is a bit extreme, there was simply no way you could win.

 

Boarding is the natural outcome of actions taken prior to it. First of all, by stacking boarding mods, you are handicapping your ship elswhere (reload, maneuverability etc.). Also you can't board a player just like that, if he doesn't want to let you (unless he is totally clueless and get's stuck in irons). It takes skill to force someone, with potentially much better sailing/gunnery capabilities into a position to board. And you can easily get outmaneuvered and out-dpsed while trying to do so. 

 

In an equal scenario, if your desired resolution of the fight is the boarding, you still need to remove stern armor, reduce enemy's crew, make him stop either by maneuvering or demasting. Unless you just want to rage-board quickly and roll the dice basically (and you still need to get into the position to do so).

 

This is where the skill aspect is when it comes to boarding. Boarding mods will mean nothing if you get demasted and decrewed. 

 

It's ship combat first of all, not an RTS. There is no point dumping time and resources to make ever-more complicated and 'skill-based' boarding systems, when the boardings are and should be won, before they start.

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Then as far as i'm concerned, they can as well remove boarding, it's of ni use to me... And once we get pvp flags, you can bet i won't activate it. I don't see how this boarding is any better than potbs one. It's different, but not better.

 

But i can see why you like it.. It's like pushing a "i win" button as long as you can have the best upgrades and your opponent can't, or have a smaller ship.

 

I'm not interested in "I win" buttons.

Edited by hoarmurath
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Ok, this is the last time i will say this: Boarding is the END of a ship battle. It's the last step of the ladder, it's the last meter before the homerun. You know where im going. Boarding is won or lost before the boarding. No muskets, no marines, no mods, nothing will save you if you have 1/3rd less crew than your enemy. 

 

It's not an "i win button" either. It's the final step in a lot of steps. 

 

The disengage button is there to possibly help you recover from a mistake you made, or to punish your opponent for boarding in a bad situation. e.g. he boarded you while you are facing downwind. Or he boarded you with too few preparation. 

 

The current system is not exciting, but it's a good system and it's some kind of minigame that you can play while the boarding happens. The real fight still is all about the maneuvers.

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Ok, this is the last time i will say this: Boarding is the END of a ship battle. It's the last step of the ladder, it's the last meter before the homerun. You know where im going. Boarding is won or lost before the boarding. No muskets, no marines, no mods, nothing will save you if you have 1/3rd less crew than your enemy. 

 

It's not an "i win button" either. It's the final step in a lot of steps. 

 

The disengage button is there to possibly help you recover from a mistake you made, or to punish your opponent for boarding in a bad situation. e.g. he boarded you while you are facing downwind. Or he boarded you with too few preparation. 

 

The current system is not exciting, but it's a good system and it's some kind of minigame that you can play while the boarding happens. The real fight still is all about the maneuvers.

 

You're play as pirate, you gank, and you like boarding as it is now... I will never play pirate, i never gank, and i hate boarding as it is now...

 

Obviously, we are not playing the same game.

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Well i dont know what the fact that im playing pirate has to do with me liking the boarding system. 

 

 

Here's something i think we both can aggree on (and from talking to others, many more aggree on this as well):

 

It should not be possible to win a fight from having better modules alone!

 

In ship combat, the modules give you an edge, but you can still outfight better mods most of the time.

In boarding combat, the better modules just win. There is almost no way around it. If you are fighting someone that has better boarding mods than you do, you cannot tack, you cannot pedestal properly, you are basically very very crippled in your possibilities. The reason for this is, that with better boarding mods you can instantly board another fully crewed ship and be sure to win. 

 

Many of us saw today what Marines + Muskets and pistols can do. 

 

And not only can you be sure to win, you can be sure to win with minimal losses. Killing 1000 crew with only 100 losses is very well doable. 

 

So right now you can win a fight without even shooting a single bullet. And in the sol fights it's even easyer, because they are so slow anyways, and boarding at 6 knots while both are running downwind is very much possible. 

 

So there are 2 things i would suggest to make boarding the FINAL step of ship combat, and not the FIRST.

 

1. Boarding mods need to be nerfed significantly (i personally would nerf all mods by quite a significant amout, so mods give you only a slight edge, not a huge advantage)

 

2. You should only be able to board a ship whose crew you have reduced below 30% to prevent boarding at full crew

 

or

 

2. Boarding should generate so much loss, that recovering from a full crew boarding is almost impossible, leaving you with 100 -200 men to sail a santi. Which means: make boarding more risky, so ppl will only risk boarding when they have achieved a significant (at least 30%) advantage through ship combat. 

 

 

 

*Edit: Yes, i often think there are a lot of ppl playing this game a lot different from what i am, but that's the beauty of a sandbox mmo, isn't it? 

Edited by Puchu
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I like the new boarding, however several things.

 

Boarding modules are WAY TOO OP.

 

Disengage is useless.

 

Look at this picture:

X7mIIF3.png

My santi has 1300 crew.  Why do I start boarding with 1132?  Laik has 1200 crew, why does he start with 1045?

 

How the heck did Laik get 900 muskets and why is that even possible?

 

Right now, chain boarding is way too OP

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I was just in that fight with Prater. It was the most appalling thing I've ever seen in this game.

 

Three Santis with (apparently) Yellow boarding mods destroyed a fleet twice their strength, simply because they could initiate boarding one by one and be guaranteed victory at minimal cost to themselves. There's no skill involved in the slightest, just the metagame from hell. The only possible means of resistance is to be dismast the entire boarding fleet before they can disable one of your own.

 

Right now it take many minutes to sink an SoL with gunfire, but a split second to press the "I win" button. This fuckery is nothing less than the knife kill in CoD. We run around shooting nerf pellets at each other, until the game's real weapon is unsheated. Of course, you have to spend several hundred thousand on the knife first.

 

Mods have been the bane of this game since they were introduced. A more realistic boarding initiation system (no tractor beam grappling) would help too, although less so with clumsy SoLs.

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Guest raat

If you total the "Marines" section with your crew it equals your total 1300 crew.  That's how marines works.  But still yes, modules and boarding is OpieOP.  Has been and tried to warn, but...everyone loves it. ;)

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pls reduce or even remove all outfittings, especiallly those muskets and pistols. those things are silly.

 

e.g.: make grey outfittings give 1% advantage and give exceptional 5%

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Yes! 2 things are important:

 

1. modules (in general) should only give a slight edge, and not a clear advantage

 

2. boarding at full crew needs to be VERY risky, no matter the mods. Boarding should only be safely possible at at least 30% crew difference.

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