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Boarding changes feedback.

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Seeing what the other person has selected makes boarding very predictable. I understand that this is to simulate being able to look over at the other ship and see what they are doing, but perhaps it could be made more interesting with some uncertainty. Back in these days could you really look over and know for certain that they were preparing to rush an attack vs fire their guns from their current positions? I would suggest that giving us some idea of what they are doing with out giving us the exact option to counter might make things interesting, and perhaps more realistic too. Everything I have read leads me to believe that hiding your true intention was a staple of this kind of fighting.

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Cmon buddy.

 

If people took all statements as absolutes or literally, my ass would be wet from kisses.

 

But seriously though, how many would really be to hand? Would sailors not have to fetch new means of securing themselves? 

 

You bring up a good point about multiple ships - Should we only be able to keep surrendered/ captured ships if we actually put a prize crew on it? This would put a credible limit on how many ships we could actually chain cap.

 

If we don't put a prize crew on it , and nobody else does it will be a derelict and disappear after the instance.

 

I actually brought up prize crews and I'd love to see them.

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Due to my lower overall playing time, I might not have as much experience as some of other fellow players, however I dare to share my observations:

 

1. Chain boarding Type A (boarding of several ships, usually AI in one battle and capturing them all). This I view as a problem, however could be solved by the proposed ideas of a prize crew.

 

2. Chain boarding Type B (boarding the same ship repeateatly in the same battle). Especially in battles with larger, slower ships, it takes more time to raise sails, set course and actually disengage (after succesful in boarding disengagement) than to load boarding preparation for the attacker. I propose a cooldown (2 mins for start) for boarding preparation if you failed your boarding.

 

3. Interface is very counter intuitive. I know it is only temporary, but please keep this in mind when redesigning the interface. I blame current interface for the feeling that you can win every battle by last second decision (although it is not the case)

 

I like the depth of the boarding, however, with its current level of polish it does not really feel like it belongs to naval action. Maybe some at least rudimentary animations would help.

 

Hope my observations help.

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Is the Disengage command visible to the enemy? Because six rounds is more than enough time to store up 50 prep points.

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Seeing what the other person has selected makes boarding very predictable. I understand that this is to simulate being able to look over at the other ship and see what they are doing, but perhaps it could be made more interesting with some uncertainty. Back in these days could you really look over and know for certain that they were preparing to rush an attack vs fire their guns from their current positions? I would suggest that giving us some idea of what they are doing with out giving us the exact option to counter might make things interesting, and perhaps more realistic too. Everything I have read leads me to believe that hiding your true intention was a staple of this kind of fighting.

I don't know how feasible it is to animate crew during boarding, but it would at least give less defined signals than the current display.

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Is popping the surgeon - with a full crew - just before boarding an exploit? It means you regen crew while doing the RPS thing. 

 

Mabie have it so that the crew number is set when you enter the mini game.

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Is the Disengage command visible to the enemy? Because six rounds is more than enough time to store up 50 prep points.

  • 6 rounds? i think it lasts 4 and you disengage at the end of the next round. 
  • You recover preparation only on brace - that means if attacker is bracing it gives you perfect opportunity to inflict some casualties by grenades and general musket fire). If enemy has 50 preparation to quickly reboard that means only 1 attack (easy to counter) and couple of firing rounds. He will not win next round

Lets not twist the facts here guys:  If enemy has 50 preparation to quickly reboard that means only 1 attack (easy to counter) and couple of firing rounds. He will not win next round. In fact it is safer to stay in boarding (because you cannot sink when boarded and will take control of the enemy ship if your sank and you win) 

  • Enemy can only re-board and win if you screwed up - meaning you lost all morale or you lost most men last boarding. Only then you cannot raise sails fast and if you can lose by just one enemy attack then so be it. 

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Due to my lower overall playing time, I might not have as much experience as some of other fellow players, however I dare to share my observations:

 

1. Chain boarding Type A (boarding of several ships, usually AI in one battle and capturing them all). This I view as a problem, however could be solved by the proposed ideas of a prize crew.

 

 

Chain boarding is possible just like chain sinking. Lets stop presenting skill as a bad thing. If you know what you are doing you can win against multiple enemies in a row.

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Is popping the surgeon - with a full crew - just before boarding an exploit? It means you regen crew while doing the RPS thing. 

 

Mabie have it so that the crew number is set when you enter the mini game.

 

Both sides can do it. AI does not. 

If both sides can do it its not an exploit. Ready surgeons and doctors in a medical bay are patching up sailors.  

Surgeon will stay for some time, but eventually will be moved to an officer. 

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Seeing what the other person has selected makes boarding very predictable. I understand that this is to simulate being able to look over at the other ship and see what they are doing, but perhaps it could be made more interesting with some uncertainty. Back in these days could you really look over and know for certain that they were preparing to rush an attack vs fire their guns from their current positions? I would suggest that giving us some idea of what they are doing with out giving us the exact option to counter might make things interesting, and perhaps more realistic too. Everything I have read leads me to believe that hiding your true intention was a staple of this kind of fighting.

 

No. We have a completely opposite opinion and are not going to change it, unless everyone hates it.

When Victory sent gunners to top decks planning to board Redoutable; french officers in return ordered more musket men to masts - they seen and HEARD the commands on the enemy ship. Thats when Nelson was killed. Heavy fire from french decks brought gunners back to lower decks. Then french sent more men down to repair the leaks, and thats when they received devastating fire from outside ships. 900 crew commanded by Nelson could not board a 400 crew ship for 5 hours and at the end did not board it at all. They clearly seen each other actions and plans. French surrendered because of leaks, they did not want to sink. 

You see and hear everything what enemy is doing. 

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No. We have a completely opposite opinion and are not going to change it.

When Victory sent gunners to top decks planning to board Redoutable; french officers in return ordered more musket men to masts - they seen and HEARD the commands on the enemy ship. Thats when Nelson was killed. Heavy fire from french decks brought gunners back to lower decks. Then french sent more men down to repair the leaks, and thats when they received devastating fire from outside ships. 900 crew commanded by Nelson could not board a 400 crew ship for 5 hours and at the end did not board it at all. French surrendered because of leaks, they did not want to sink. 

You see and hear everything what enemy is doing. 

 

And in the end, did not board at all... This is the first problem, you made boarding too easy.

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And in the end, did not board at all... This is the first problem, you made boarding too easy.

 

Yes. But they were locked with each other the whole battle. 

Boarding the ship with 700 crew was long in real history and it is currently replicated in game. It will last multiple rounds with lots of back and forth. 

It is realistic now. The question is: is it fun being realistic and this is what we would like to hear from you Captains. 

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Chain boarding is possible just like chain sinking. Lets stop presenting skill as a bad thing. If you know what you are doing you can win against multiple enemies in a row.

 

It is only my personal feeling, however since we are here to test the game and report on our views and findings I will share it. Seeing pictures as Raathas when he with 1000 men defeated 5x times his number in a span of 60 minutes and seeing it in game detracts from the overall feeling of the game as historically authentic as it adds unncessary gameiness to it.

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It's currently not fun, is doesn't feel very realistic either, and it looks like it can be exploited and abused in many ways.

 

BTW you're using trafalgar as reference a lot. But it wasn't really typical of the battles of the era. How many boarding actions at Aboukir for example?

Edited by hoarmurath

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The boarding is won or lost before the boarding. Admin has stated that many times before and that's how it is and how it should be!

 

The boarding combat itself is war of nutrition. With knowing the enemy's commands and the ability to counter them, or to force counters, it's all about who had more ressources in the first place. If you get boarded with a 1/3 crew disadvantage and even less preparation, you will loose the boarding, there is almost no way around it. And it's meant to be that way. You are not supposed to board a ship that has close to equal crew. Not even with boarding mods. It's a good thing that you get pulled out of the fight for a serious amount of time because that's when strategic boarding comes into play. If you get boarded while in the middle of the enemy team, you can expect to get shreddered to pieces during the boarding. Graping the enemy during a boarding action could also become a thing during big battles, but all that needs boarding to take time, to make it have a significant effect on the surrounding ships. 

 

In its core this system is basically just some kind of complicated rock paper scissors. 

 

There is only one basic issue i have, i would like to know if it's the same for others as well. Sometimes when i click the buttons my command doesnt get applied, seems like the mouseclick isnt registered, and i also sometimes get like a 1 sec clicking delay, (i have a ping of 40) which has caused me to loose some boarding rounds because i couldnt switch fast enough.

 

Remember that boarding ai is meant to be easyer because it's farming. Boarding actual players is a totally different thing. 

 

(about typical battles. Typical battles of the era were 1. one side running , the others chasing. (that's also the most typical battle right now.) 2. undecisive linefights with equally powerful lines stupidly shooting at each other for hours.  Both kinds of battles aren't fun for anyone. This is a game after all, so the devs have to see how to make the exciting battles happen. e.g. if they want ppl to cross the line of the enemy and not just stay at range, they have to make raking so strong that it will outweight the dmg the crossing ship takes while running straight for its target.)

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Guest raat

Yes. But they were locked with each other the whole battle. 

Boarding the ship with 700 crew was long in real history and it is currently replicated in game. It will last multiple rounds with lots of back and forth. 

It is realistic now. The question is: is it fun being realistic and this is what we would like to hear from you Captains. 

 

Respectfully, you have made player boarding last longer (usually around 10 rounds for me, give or take), but I wouldn't call it realistic.  In the current boarding, the first few rounds are spent fighting, then about 5 rounds go by where both sides are just sitting there, bracing.  In terms of realism, that would be like a skirmish at the beginning of the boarding engagement, then both sides just sat there on their own ships for 2 hours.  Then, once you've built enough prep again, you start fighting again (attack/defend etc.).  That doesn't feel very realistic, but I'm not as familiar as others are in the historical aspects of Age of Sail boarding combat.

 

With regard to your earlier question, my opinion is the current boarding is meh.  It's not bad.  It allows for customization with the current upgrade/module system, and gives some interesting options that way.  But, to me, it isn't fun either.  It's certainly not exciting when compared to the rest of the game.  And again, this is my opinion after spending awhile testing it, it's not a challenge at all when fighting AI.  Without surgeon and/or the addition of prize crews, chain boarding wouldn't be an issue.  But I still find it MUCH quicker, easier, and a lot more lucrative in terms of gold to board AI (without spending any time graping them) than to try and sink them.

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It's currently not fun, is doesn't feel very realistic either, and it looks like it can be exploited and abused in many ways.

 

BTW you're using trafalgar as reference a lot. But it wasn't really typical of the battles of the era. How many boarding actions at Aboukir for example?

 

We use historical boarding references when referencing boarding combat.

 

In terms of realism, that would be like a skirmish at the beginning of the boarding engagement, then both sides just sat there on their own ships for 2 hours.  Then, once you've built enough prep again, you start fighting again (attack/defend etc.).  That doesn't feel very realistic, but I'm not as familiar as others are in the historical aspects of Age of Sail boarding combat.

 

And again, this is my opinion after spending awhile testing it, it's not a challenge at all when fighting AI.  Without surgeon and/or the addition of prize crews, chain boarding wouldn't be an issue.  But I still find it MUCH quicker, easier, and a lot more lucrative in terms of gold to board AI (without spending any time graping them) than to try and sink them.

 

If you participate in the Saturday battle event or if you have seen the posted videos from those events, you know that all issues you bring up don't exist. Boardings are happening with the same consistency as they happened in real life. They are not happening very often and definitely there is no chain boarding there against players.

 

AI goal is to provide food and practice, if you want challenge - fight players. Sail to La mona, English harbor, Macao or Mathew town and report back on how chain boarding is working out for you against 3-4 player ships. 

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The boarding combat itself is war of nutrition.

 

Well at least I can avoid scurvy through boarding!

 

(I Know what you meant, but it was just too funny.)

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I really want to see videos of this chain boarding against AI SoLs.

I have a video of me chain boarding 5 SoL. Unfortunately i never recorded myself taking on 9 SoL! I'm uploading to YT now and will update this comment with a link when done! ^^ 

 

Also, while i like the new boarding much better than the old i still feel this way; 

Quote Raatha; 

"With regard to your earlier question, my opinion is the current boarding is meh.  It's not bad.  It allows for customization with the current upgrade/module system, and gives some interesting options that way.  But, to me, it isn't fun either.  It's certainly not exciting when compared to the rest of the game.  And again, this is my opinion after spending awhile testing it, it's not a challenge at all when fighting AI.  Without surgeon and/or the addition of prize crews, chain boarding wouldn't be an issue.  But I still find it MUCH quicker, easier, and a lot more lucrative in terms of gold to board AI (without spending any time graping them) than to try and sink them."

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfPg4vUSnA0

- Here it is ^^ 

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Puchu: "The boarding is won or lost before the boarding. Admin has said this many times before and that's how it is and that's how it should be!"

That's not what we're seeing in game. Again, you guys act like there's some sort of strategy required. Maybe that was the developer's intent, but that's just not how it plays out.

 

When I succeed in boarding, I don't really feel like I've worked for it. I feel like the other captain told me exactly what he was gonna do, and basically pointed the sharp end of my sword at his chest and said, "your move". LOL.

 

On the contrary, there's very little work you have to do in advance of boarding, from what I've seen. I can't tell you how many times I've 9-keyed it at the start, sailed right up to a ship with equal or slightly more crew and just started stomping mud holes in their crew. The only work required, if any, is to chain the sails so you can actually catch them.

 

And I'd love to see a realistic boarding system as much as the next guy. The greatest thing that this game has going for it is the level of realism.

 

But may I also remind you that we can resurrect a ship 5 times before it is lost forever with a rather unrealistic durability system? It's kind of silly to be so adamant about boarding realism at this point, especially when the gameplay may be negatively affected by it.

Edited by ajffighter86

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I have a video of me chain boarding 5 SoL. Unfortunately i never recorded myself taking on 9 SoL! I'm uploading to YT now and will update this comment with a link when done! ^^ 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfPg4vUSnA0

- Here it is ^^ 

 

That example is now irrelevant moot

We warned about the morale shock many times when we launched the boarding.

Morale shock is fixed. Attack is not 2 rounds anymore. 

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It's nice to use historical evidence... But maybe you need some more :

 

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Confiance

 

Boarding of the Kent frigate by the french corsair Surcouf, the Kent has three times as many men as the privateer, according to the french witness of the time, the boarding took 10 minutes, according to brits, it took 20. A modern days historian say two hours.

 

The Triton boarding, always by surcouf, with 19 men against 150, is also described as a violent short action.

 

You can also read here two recollections of boarding by the captains of 18th century, the Comte de Forbin, and Jean Bart...

 

http://icp.ge.ch/po/cliotexte/xiii-xviiie-siecle-grandes-decouvertes-colonisation-esclavage-economie/corsaires.xvii.xviii.html

 

It doesn't feel like what we have currently in game.

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No. We have a completely opposite opinion and are not going to change it, unless everyone hates it.

When Victory sent gunners to top decks planning to board Redoutable; french officers in return ordered more musket men to masts - they seen and HEARD the commands on the enemy ship. Thats when Nelson was killed. Heavy fire from french decks brought gunners back to lower decks. Then french sent more men down to repair the leaks, and thats when they received devastating fire from outside ships. 900 crew commanded by Nelson could not board a 400 crew ship for 5 hours and at the end did not board it at all. They clearly seen each other actions and plans. French surrendered because of leaks, they did not want to sink.

You see and hear everything what enemy is doing.

I agree that you can see a whole lot, but is there a way to add some uncertainty? Instead of telling you exactly what "move" they picked could it not just tell you that "most of the crew is on deck" or "there are many men in the rigging" etc. so you may get some "visual" clues about their intent, but not exact info. Then you could even add mechanics for deception.

Just spitballing here,

Eg my intention is to attack, but I can send men into the rigging. My attack has less power, but perhaps the men in the rigging caused him to prepare a poor response.

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It doesn't feel like what we have currently in game.

 

exactly like we have in game.

200 men with marines or boarding parties and full morale, attacking 600 men with 0-10 morale will win the boarding in a violent action (1 round).

 

Getting the enemy crew to 0 morale is hard.

Those are virtual men. They are not afraid to die, don't have kids, families to return to. 

 

 

PS Update on Kent vs Confiance

 

British side of the story is this

Confiance - 150 men

Kent - 100 crew + 38 passengers women and children

Totally possible to win in a violent action against women and children ;)

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