Ned Loe Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Beautiful French medium sized ship could be a great match for a newly added USS Niagara! 'Amazon' 1745 Description unavailable. Plans 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) *blowsthedustoffthismodel* Stern is heavy WIP (again), those baroque shapes are driving me crazy...(again)... If there´s interest, I can make a seperate WIP thread with additional info (history, dimensions, sailing report etc.) about this cute little ship. Edited April 6, 2019 by Malachi 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvenski Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Great looking model, Malachi. She looks quite similar to Renommee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Thanks She looks quite similar to Renommee That´s because she´s her little sister, same shipyard, same designer and launched in the same year. Hull shape´s a bit different, though, and she´s 11 feet shorter. Armarment was 20 french six-pounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvenski Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Interesting. Well, if you ask me, we could do with more ships like her (ship-rigged/three-masted corvettes, sloops-of-war, light frigates.) in-game. Edited July 22, 2015 by Arvenski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddykrueger66 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Great looking ship! Are you looking to get this one in game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 Nice work. I hope you can finish it, so we can see it in game. Pinned. You can post your work here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Thanks, Wind!! I summarise the information I gathered about the Amazon/Panthère tomorrow so you can update the OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Comery Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 It's a nice looking vessel but I'd like to see more ships like the vid or santisma. Basically more 1st rate ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvenski Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) It's a nice looking vessel but I'd like to see more ships like the vid or santisma. Basically more 1st rate ships. Well, there is one more 1st Rate in development, you know. And hey, as I've said before, the more ships, the better. Edited July 23, 2015 by Arvenski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 If there´s interest, I can make a seperate WIP thread with additional info (history, dimensions, sailing report etc.) about this cute little ship. Please, do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) La Panthère ('HMS Amazon' after capture) French 6-pdr light Frigate 20 guns 1744 Built in Brest by Coulomb, under the direction of Blaise Ollivier. Captured in 1745, she served as model to build H.M.S. Myrmidon (1779), Echo (1782), Rattler (1783), Calypso (1783), Brisk (1784), Nautilus (1784), Scorpion (1785). Armament Historical armament : French service (as La Panthère) : 20 x 6-pdr + 2 x 3 swivel-guns (QD) + 2 x 1 swivel-gun (Fc) British service (as HMS Amazon) : 20 x 6-pdr (Gun Deck) + 2 x 3-pdr (Quarterdeck) Suggestion for in-game armament : 20 x 6-pdr (broadside weight = 60 pds) = brig Mercury 20 x 6-pdr + 2 x 4-pdr (bw = 64 pds) 20 x 6-pdr + 2 x 6-pdr (bw = 66 pds) = Snow HMS Ontario Dimensions (Pieds du Roi) given by Boudriot : Length (from the head of stern to post) : 108'0" Breadth (to outside of plank) : 28'6" Depth in hold (from the upper face of the keelson to the under face of the midship beam) : 14'2" Displacement : 637 tons Decoration of the stern and quarter gallery https://spectrum.library.concordia.ca/973827/1/Portanier_MA_S2012.pdf (p. 132) Drawing by C. -P. Caffieri French Archives n° 734 : D1 68, f° 12, cl. 7301 HMS Amazon, British plan HMS Echo and her sister ships, same decoration http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83629.html Informations Exhaustive description (in English) : Boudriot, History of the French Frigate, p. 62-63, 65 https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=11100 Plans of La Panthère / HMS Amazon : http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83818.html http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83819.html Plans of HMS Myrmidon ( based on the lines of H.M.S. Amazon) : http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83622.html http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83624.html http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83623.html http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83625.html http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83621.html http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83818.html http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83819.html Info on HMS Myrmidon : http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/6183-myrmidon-1781-british-22-gun-ship-with-plans/ Plans of HMS Echo (variant of HMS Myrmidon) : http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/6183-myrmidon-1781-british-22-gun-ship-with-plans/?do=findComment&comment=481908 On 9/14/2017 at 6:03 PM, Malachi said: I found a plan of La Panthère in Boudriot´s 'History of the French Frigate'. It´s not the original french plan (which sadly doesn´t exist anymore according to CATALOGUE DES PLANS DE BÂTIMENTS À VOILES CONSERVÉS DANS LES ARCHIVES DE LA MARINE, probably destroyed by the disastrous fire in the Brest dockyards in 1746), but the plan the british made when they took off their lines after her capture in 1745: The original plan would have been better, as 'as taken off' plans sometimes contain errors. For example, the british plan for La Renommée shows more tumblehome than the original french plan, probably because the thickness of the whales wasn´t properly subtracted when the frames of the body plan were drawn. So, we got the plan from the NMM, now we look for other sources, the best sites are https://digitaltmuseum.se, http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=page.collections&collection=technischetekeningen and http://www.orlogsbasen.dk/base.htm / https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/other/other-collection/40. I was pretty lucky as all three of them have a copy of the british plan of 1745, so I could check each plan for distortions/inaccuracies etc. As it turned out, the plan from the danish archives was the best: It has a few oddities, but more on that later. So, next stop: more research Sister ships, date of launch designer/constructor, dimensions (very important for scaling in a modelling app), service history etc. The best site for the first basic research on a ship is threedecks.org. It shows two entries, one for La Panthère and one for HMS Amazon. I have a danish copy without a scale of the british plan, so I checked the dimensions of Amazon to see if the numbers on the plan are correct: length p/p 115' 6'' breadth moulded 31' depth in hold 10' 2'' The numbers seem to be identical (I also checked the source for the dimensions, British Warships in the Age of Sail 1714 - 1792, just to be safe :P), so we can move on and have a look at the other information on threedecks. The next most important info is who built the ship so we can look for possible sister ships. In La Panthère´s case, that´s Jaques-Luc Coulomb, sous-constructeur under Blaise Ollivier at Brest at the time the plans for La Panthère were made. As it turns out, he also constructed the frigate La Siréne, launched in 1744 ( the plan for La Siréne can be found in af Chapman´s Architectura Navalis Mercatoria). Next I searched threedecks for other ships built at Brest at the time between 1740 and 1750 and which are roughly comparable in size. This brought up ten ships, the most important ones are La Renommée and L' Aramante because there two detailed monographs available about these ships which would be incredibly useful for stuff which isn´t shown on the plan like masts, interior, paint scheme, deck layout etc. And monographs also mean that there´s a high probability that there are models which can be used as further references. This is especially crucial in my case, as I haven´t found any contemporary depictions of La Panthère/Amazon (paintings, drawings, models) which would have been a very important guideline for the modelling process. Edited November 14, 2018 by LeBoiteux 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) Very nice 3D model of La Panthère : https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1072-panthere-1744-in-3d/ https://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?285256-18th-Century-Frigate Edited October 27, 2017 by LeBoiteux 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) On 22/07/2015 at 3:57 PM, Malachi said: https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1072-panthere-1744-in-3d/ https://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?285256-18th-Century-Frigate @admin, @Malachi will this awesome 3D model of La Panthère / HMS Amazon find its place in NA some day ? Edited October 27, 2017 by LeBoiteux 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikard Frederiksen Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 I hope so, such a perfect little privateering ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) Questions to our Naval specialists who know how to read a plan In his long description of the plan of La Panthère/HMS Amazon (History of the French Frigates, p. 62), Boudriot mentions 3 stocks for swivel-guns on the quarterdeck and one on the forecastle : "There are three kevels inside the bulwarks on the upper deck, and two smaller range-cleats on the quarterdeck, where there are also three stocks for swivel-guns ; a further stock can be seen of the forecastle". I'd like to know where they are represented on the plan. Are they in the red boxes (the lower part of them being only drawn ?) ? Thx in advance. 🙂 PS : and to think that Boudriot nearly wrote a monograph about her... Edited November 16, 2018 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surcouf Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) Yes, that's what you have framed in red. "Montants pour chandeliers de pierriers" in French. Edited November 16, 2018 by Surcouf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, Surcouf said: Yes, that's what you have framed in red. "Montants pour chandeliers de pierriers" in French. Thank you so much ! "Montants pour chandeliers" ? A nice expression ! 🙂 If I may ask another question : Was the installation (and the swivel-guns) on La Panthère similar to that one (on Le Machault, 175x) ? NB : I guess the answer is in Boudriot's Artillerie de mer (here), but I don't have access to that book. Edited November 17, 2018 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surcouf Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Yes, it's similar. And there those of la Belle-Poule but without the swivel-guns. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) While, on La Belle Poule, the 6-pdr guns take up the front part of the quarterdeck and the swivel-guns its rear part, the swivel-guns of La Panthère occupy her whole QD, right ? Edited November 16, 2018 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surcouf Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) Yes ! That's it ! La Panthère is small, so it does not have guns on the QD like la Belle-Poule or l'Hermione. Edited November 16, 2018 by Surcouf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) And the circle is complete with British HMS Myrmidon (1781), a variant of La Panthère made after her capture, to add on each side a 3-pdr gun on the QD while keeping (2+1) swivel-guns (instead of 3+1 swivel-guns as on La Panthère) : Edited November 16, 2018 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surcouf Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Effectively! The choice of English is different. A military choice different from the Frogs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Indeed : 3-pdr guns and barricades on the QD for the British, about forty years after La Panthère's building. (later on, those two QD guns were replaced with two 12-pounder carronades) Not a fan of those ugly (but, I guess, effective) barricades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 (edited) Reconstitution of the paint scheme of a French light frigate (applicable to La Panthère, in accordance with Boudriot's recommendations) La Dauphine, 1703 (22x 8-pdr + 6x 4-pdr) (Source : Boudriot, History of the French Frigate, p. 64) wreck found near Saint-Malo (France), alongside with L'Aimable Grenot (1749) See plans, 3d reconstitution, vids by French Archaeologists : here. Edited November 23, 2018 by LeBoiteux 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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