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'Amazon' Beautiful French Ship (With Plans)

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Beautiful French medium sized ship could be a great match for a newly added USS Niagara!


 


'Amazon'


1745


 


Description unavailable. 


 


Plans


 


gARS5JV.jpg

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:ph34r:

 

 

 

 

 

 

*blowsthedustoffthismodel*

 

 

 Stern is heavy WIP (again), those baroque shapes are driving me crazy...(again)...

 

If there´s interest, I can make a seperate WIP thread with additional info (history, dimensions, sailing report etc.) about this cute little ship.

Edited by Malachi
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Thanks :)

 

She looks quite similar to Renommee

 

That´s because she´s her little sister, same shipyard, same designer and launched in the same year. Hull shape´s a bit different, though, and she´s 11 feet shorter. Armarment was 20 french six-pounder.

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Interesting. Well, if you ask me, we could do with more ships like her (ship-rigged/three-masted corvettes, sloops-of-war, light frigates.) in-game.

Edited by Arvenski

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Nice work. I hope you can finish it, so we can see it in game. Pinned. You can post your work here. 

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Thanks, Wind!!

 

I summarise the information I gathered about the Amazon/Panthère tomorrow so you can update the OP :)

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It's a nice looking vessel but I'd like to see more ships like the vid or santisma.

Basically more 1st rate ships.

Well, there is one more 1st Rate in development, you know. And hey, as I've said before, the more ships, the better.

Edited by Arvenski

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If there´s interest, I can make a seperate WIP thread with additional info (history, dimensions, sailing report etc.) about this cute little ship.

Please, do it. :)

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La Panthère

('HMS Amazon' after capture)

French 6-pdr light Frigate

20 guns

1744

Built in Brest by Coulomb, under the direction of Blaise Ollivier.

Captured in 1745, she served as model to build H.M.S. Myrmidon (1779), Echo (1782), Rattler (1783), Calypso (1783), Brisk (1784), Nautilus (1784), Scorpion (1785). 

large.jpg.55d59772440a30fa68f1bb6e4dea5f

Panthere111.thumb.jpg.47449de3782a796c319ff15133264011.jpg

 

Armament

Historical armament : 

  • French service (as La Panthère) : 20 x 6-pdr + 2 x 3 swivel-guns (QD) + 2 x 1 swivel-gun (Fc)
  • British service (as HMS Amazon) : 20 x 6-pdr (Gun Deck) + 2 x 3-pdr (Quarterdeck)

Suggestion for in-game armament : 

  • 20 x 6-pdr (broadside weight = 60 pds) = brig Mercury
  • 20 x 6-pdr + 2 x 4-pdr (bw = 64 pds
  • 20 x 6-pdr + 2 x 6-pdr (bw = 66 pds) = Snow HMS Ontario

 

Dimensions

(Pieds du Roi) given by Boudriot :

  • Length (from the head of stern to post) : 108'0"
  • Breadth (to outside of plank) : 28'6"
  • Depth in hold (from the upper face of the keelson to the under face of the midship beam) : 14'2"
  • Displacement : 637 tons

 

Decoration of the stern and quarter gallery

61iXg7C.jpg

https://spectrum.library.concordia.ca/973827/1/Portanier_MA_S2012.pdf (p. 132)

Drawing by C. -P. Caffieri

French Archives n° 734 : D1 68, f° 12, cl. 7301

kwCYHiG.jpg?1

HMS Amazon, British plan

lbrfDvi.jpg?1

0XMzIZY.jpg?1

HMS Echo and her sister ships, same decoration

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83629.html

 

Informations

Exhaustive description (in English) : Boudriot, History of the French Frigate, p. 62-63, 65

https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=11100

Plans of La Panthère / HMS Amazon :

Plans of HMS Myrmidon ( based on the lines of H.M.S. Amazon) :

Info on HMS Myrmidon : http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/6183-myrmidon-1781-british-22-gun-ship-with-plans/

Plans of HMS Echo (variant of HMS Myrmidon) : http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/6183-myrmidon-1781-british-22-gun-ship-with-plans/?do=findComment&comment=481908

 

On 9/14/2017 at 6:03 PM, Malachi said:

I found a plan of La Panthère in Boudriot´s 'History of the French Frigate'. It´s not the original french plan (which sadly doesn´t exist anymore according to CATALOGUE DES PLANS DE BÂTIMENTS À VOILES CONSERVÉS DANS LES ARCHIVES DE LA MARINE, probably destroyed by the disastrous fire in the Brest dockyards in 1746),  but the plan the british made when they took off their lines after her capture in 1745:

large.thumb.jpg.52209e27f8e04aba9e4ff17436c4e1c6.jpg

The original plan would have been better, as 'as taken off' plans sometimes contain errors. For example, the british plan for La Renommée shows more tumblehome than the original french plan, probably because the thickness of the whales wasn´t properly subtracted when the frames of the body plan were drawn.

So, we got the plan from the NMM, now we look for other sources, the best sites are https://digitaltmuseum.se, http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=page.collections&collection=technischetekeningen and http://www.orlogsbasen.dk/base.htm / https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/other/other-collection/40.

I was pretty lucky as all three of them have a copy of the british plan of 1745, so I could check each plan for distortions/inaccuracies etc.

As it turned out, the plan from the danish archives was the best:

Panthere111.thumb.jpg.47449de3782a796c319ff15133264011.jpg

 

It has a few oddities, but more on that later.

 

So, next stop: more research :P

 

Sister ships, date of launch designer/constructor, dimensions (very important for scaling in a modelling app), service history etc.

 

The best site for the first basic research on a ship is threedecks.org. It shows two entries, one for La Panthère and one for HMS Amazon. I have a danish copy without a scale of the british plan, so I checked the dimensions of Amazon to see if the numbers on the plan are correct:

length  p/p                       115' 6''

breadth moulded             31'

depth in hold                    10' 2''

The numbers seem to be identical (I also checked the source for the dimensions, British Warships in the Age of Sail 1714 - 1792, just to be safe :P), so we can move on and have a look at the other information on threedecks. The next most important info is who built the ship so we can look for possible sister ships. In La Panthère´s case, that´s Jaques-Luc Coulomb, sous-constructeur under Blaise Ollivier at Brest at the time the plans for La Panthère were made. As it turns out, he also constructed the frigate La Siréne, launched in 1744 ( the plan for La Siréne can be found in af Chapman´s Architectura Navalis Mercatoria).

Next I searched threedecks for other ships built at Brest at the time between 1740 and 1750 and which are roughly comparable in size. This brought up ten ships, the most important ones are La Renommée and L' Aramante because there two detailed monographs available about these ships which would be incredibly useful for stuff which isn´t shown on the plan like masts, interior, paint scheme, deck layout etc. And monographs also mean that there´s a high probability that there are models which can be used as further references.

This is especially crucial in my case, as I haven´t found any contemporary depictions of La Panthère/Amazon (paintings, drawings, models) which would have been a very important guideline for the modelling process.

 

Edited by LeBoiteux
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On 22/07/2015 at 3:57 PM, Malachi said:

:ph34r:J1IPwr8.jpg?1

 

mJUb1uL.jpg?1

https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1072-panthere-1744-in-3d/

https://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?285256-18th-Century-Frigate

@admin, @Malachi will this awesome 3D model of La Panthère / HMS Amazon find its place in NA some day ? :)

Edited by LeBoiteux
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Questions to our Naval specialists who know how to read a plan

In his long description of the plan of La Panthère/HMS Amazon (History of the French Frigates, p. 62), Boudriot mentions 3 stocks for swivel-guns on the quarterdeck and one on the forecastle "There are three kevels inside the bulwarks on the upper deck, and two smaller range-cleats on the quarterdeck, where there are also three stocks for swivel-guns ; a further stock can be seen of the forecastle".

I'd like to know where they are represented on the plan. Are they in the red boxes (the lower part of them being only drawn ?) ? Thx in advance. 🙂

PS : and to think that Boudriot nearly wrote a monograph about her...

5lQi22q.jpg

eq2ZauH.jpg

Edited by LeBoiteux

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Yes, that's what you have framed in red.
"Montants pour chandeliers de pierriers" in French.

Edited by Surcouf
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22 hours ago, Surcouf said:

Yes, that's what you have framed in red.
"Montants pour chandeliers de pierriers" in French.

Thank you so much !

"Montants pour chandeliers" ? A nice expression ! 🙂

If I may ask another question :

Was the installation (and the swivel-guns) on La Panthère similar to that one (on Le Machault, 175x) ?

dscn4310.jpg

NB : I guess the answer is in Boudriot's Artillerie de mer (here), but I don't have access to that book.

Edited by LeBoiteux

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Yes, it's similar.
And there those of la Belle-Poule but without the swivel-guns.

image.jpeg

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While, on La Belle Poule, the 6-pdr guns take up the front part of the quarterdeck and the swivel-guns its rear part, the swivel-guns of La Panthère occupy her whole QD, right ?

cBPCCTE.jpg

image.png.0eb13ddd4e9bbc8a700063fe7adbf434.png

Edited by LeBoiteux

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Yes ! That's it ! La Panthère is small, so it does not have guns on the QD like la Belle-Poule or l'Hermione.

image.jpeg

Edited by Surcouf
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And the circle is complete with British HMS Myrmidon (1781), a variant of La Panthère made after her capture, to add on each side a 3-pdr gun on the QD while keeping (2+1) swivel-guns (instead of 3+1 swivel-guns as on La Panthère)  :

p8AcC29.jpg

Edited by LeBoiteux

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Effectively! The choice of English is different. A military choice different from the Frogs. :P

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Indeed 3-pdr guns and barricades on the QD for the British, about forty years after La Panthère's building.

(later on, those two QD guns were replaced with two 12-pounder carronades)

Not a fan of those ugly (but, I guess, effective) barricades.

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Reconstitution of the paint scheme of a French light frigate  

(applicable to La Panthère, in accordance with Boudriot's recommendations)

image.thumb.png.a3e7c7504a6ee1ea82840685a3bb16c1.png

La Dauphine, 1703 (22x 8-pdr + 6x 4-pdr)

(Source Boudriot, History of the French Frigate, p. 64)

wreck found near Saint-Malo (France), alongside with L'Aimable Grenot (1749)

See plans, 3d reconstitution, vids by French Archaeologists : here.

 

 

Edited by LeBoiteux
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