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Thomas Cochrane

Open World Trading Price List

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I started working on a price sheet today, comparing commodities in different ports. 

 

Anyone interested in maintaining this with me, adding to it? 

 

Message or PM me for edit rights if interested.

Edited by Thomas Cochrane

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No harm intended but IMO, this kind of lists (published on the internet) totally kills immersion and the sense of adventure.

It turns the game into a spread sheet for accountants. You know where to find what, at what price : where is the fun, the adventure, the stake ?

What a boring life for a virtual XVIIIth-century trader...

Devs should use an algorithm that continually changes prices to prevent ppl from (ab)using such lists.

Just my opinion... :)

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No harm intended but IMO, this kind of lists (published on the internet) totally kills immersion and the sense of adventure.

It turns the game into a spread sheet for accountants. You know where to find what, at what price : where is the fun, the adventure, the stake ?

What a boring life for a virtual XVIIIth-century trader...

Devs should use an algorithm that continually changes prices to prevent ppl from (ab)using such lists.

Just my opinion... :)

I would have thought that most people were able to exercise enough self restraint such that, if they feel a price list would ruin their game immersion, they could resist finding and looking at one. 

 

Also, I had thought of this more as a community project to add immersion by creating human interaction and teamwork.

 

However, you may be right. so I've removed the link. If anyone is interested they can PM me. 

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Well, it is just my opinion... However, I get your point about human interaction and teamwork :) .

But having a captain saying in a national chat : "Hey ! Sail to Guadeloupe, traders ! Woods are so cheap here..." is one thing. That is teamwork.

Publishing a list with all the in-game items listed is another thing.

However, if you don't publish your list, I guess someone else will do it. ;)

So...

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Because in real life traders, craftsmen, buyers and sellers didn't keep any paperwork on goods, they just winged it everywhere they went...  :rolleyes:

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Because in real life traders, craftsmen, buyers and sellers didn't keep any paperwork on goods, they just winged it everywhere they went...  :rolleyes:

Was just going to say this, it's quite hilarious how hard this community is trying to make this game not meta friendly.

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From what little trading I've done, I was under the belief that trade prices were based on supply and demand. Only today I brought iron from St John's and as the available stock decreased, the buying price increased. As I sold the stock later the sale price dropped as their stock levels increased. Due to this feature I see it as being impossible and therefore worthless to attempt to maintain a trading price list. What was once selling for x amount may now be selling for y amount that just so happens to be less then what you bought it for. You could be making a run from Florida all the way to Guadeloupe and find out its been a complete waste of time. Perhaps later on when the 'crafting system' for lack of a better phrase is properly implemented, and ports of major ship construction are established and a continued supply and demand is established, would it then be viable to establish a trading price list.

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Because in real life traders, craftsmen, buyers and sellers didn't keep any paperwork on goods, they just winged it everywhere they went...  :rolleyes:

 

 

Indeed, RL Traders had account books, kept track of prices and requested information about prices, supply and demand of distant countries from travelers and informants. But they didn't have real time information (you know, the internet thing ?).

 

In my mind, they had to wait weeks before knowing this or that price and didn't know the exact benefit (if ever...) of a transaction before entering port.

That was a world with imperfect (and asymmetrical) information. IMO, that is much more interesting in terms of gameplay than a price list...

I hope that devs will be able to simulate that.

 

Once again, a captain informing his fellow traders on chat that this good can be bought at a very low price in that town is one thing.

But changing NA traders in XXIth-century Wall Street traders in front of their computer screen with Real-time trading figures and prices is another.

 

On the other hand, if a trader ship arrived before his rivals with the same goods, these traders could sell nothing or at a very low price (without profit).

That is the laws of Supply and Demand. I am sure it will be implemented with a full Economy. That and the fear of be attacked while at sea will make trading a real adventure.

 

In the meantime, giving the trading price list of all the goods around the Caribbean is no fun to me. It is just a farming tool. Farming isn't trading. Trading is/was a risky business. I hope it will be in NA too. Just my opinion.

Edited by NorthernWolves
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As of now, i also think it´s like trying to get blood from a stone to work on a price-list.

With further developement of trading, i hope it gets more regional-based. Where to buy which resource in the first place, and where to sell these. That would make up for a reasonable supply-demand-chain, establish trade-routes and the need (+ right to exist) for some meta-data around trading (eg a resource map).

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As has been noted, the trading system is not yet very polished so much of the below will be more for future patch versions than the current  version.

 

To summarize the two main positions above:

 

1) A trading spreadsheet will ruin gameplay because everyone will have instant access to the figures online.

2) A trading spreadsheet is useless because the figures will be out of date (so therefore won't/can't ruin gameplay).

 

I think the middle position is probably true: that the list will be of some use, but not a definitive up to the second commodities list.

 

Information decay, which historically  happened as a result of the long passage of time between departure and arrival of ships, will to some extent result from the variation in trade prices due to supply and demand. The information will never be bang up-to-date, it will always be subject to market pressures a. since the information was uploaded and b. during the trading voyage which seeks to profit from the information. Even in Nelson's time and earlier people make money in this way: speculating on the trading of information.

 

If the above market protection is not sufficient (i.e. it is easily possible to 'cheat' the system and farm tremendous wealth) then I think it should be for the devs (rather than the community) to either a. prohibit the practice of trading groups and/or b. make prices so liquid as to prevent their usefulness. 

 

I've also has some requests for private sharing of the list. I think this is potentially more exploitative because it makes access to the list a. restricted and b. secret.

 

My compromise proposal is to start a merchant navy org where members can share information. Anyone can join, but members who do not contribute (they just take from the list, but don't update prices) will be banned. Any interest in this?

 

TLDR: let's start a merchant navy org!

 

Edit: just while the list is under discussion = here is the public link.

Edited by Thomas Cochrane

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NA devs will have to face an identical challenge when designing both trading and exploration, that is making sure that these activities aren't just a matter of :

- exhaustively mapping invariable/accurate datas about items,

- making lists and maps

- and publishing them in the internet.

I don't want farmers. I want traders and explorers with all the attendant risks. And the first risk comes with uncertainty.

 

IMHO, maintaining an imperfect information in the NA world is essential for gameplay and fun. 

Otherwise, the core of these activities shouldn't be about collecting and using these datas.

 

NB : By "datas", I mean :

- for exploration : mapping of unknown territories, location of ressources or artefacts...

- for trading : trading routes, lists of local market prices, supply and demand information...

Edited by LeBoiteux

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Maybe an in game ledger of some type could be added for merchant class, where they can add port names and what is bought and sold, obviously once crafting/shipbuilding starts all demands will change as resources will have to be kept up or repairs and new ships and stocks will cease to be produced. maybe a letter like we already have in game could be sent out to chat, high demand for xxx at yyy ship builders yard on the Island of pppp..!

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I hereby acknowledge all the negative comments yet will endeavor to play the game in the manner of my own choosing.  Onward to the next port, onward to profit!

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