oleski Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 It was me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Smith Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Wierd i was sure they didint join because lobby was full 36 max aye? Anyway GF all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Bubbles Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Hi, Once again a great battle! Unlucky enough once again some ppl were randomly left out. In the lobby there were 18dutch, 7 brits, 7 danes and 2-3 french, us and pirate players and 1swede, in total about 44 players. When the game started we were with 2 well balanced teams of 19 each, but some were left out :-/. Seems like the battlemaker favours balance over full participation. Personally I would prefer a system that allows anyone to join, but balances on amount of guns brought to the game instead of ship per ship parity. In this case for example a 20-24 line up would suffice with bigger ships on the outnumbered side. Another way to solve this would be an overview in the lobby that shows the amount of ships per type per nation. So via ts we can arrange the line up ourselves. All in all the current system saves everyone a lot of time compared to the old "Plymouth" days, it just needs some finetuning I guess. Grtzzz Bubbles Edited October 19, 2015 by Capt Bubbles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Balancer always brings one nation to one side. That might be causing some captains to be left out. If you have 30 Dutch and 10 Brits in the battle room the battle will be 10v10 with a somewhat balanced battle rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Balancer always brings one nation to one side. That might be causing some captains to be left out. If you have 30 Dutch and 10 Brits in the battle room the battle will be 10v10 with a somewhat balanced battle rating. the thing however was that the dutch had 18 and there were 7 brits, 7 french and a bunch of other smaller parts, why could the match making not have done something like dutch vs the rest? to do a similar example as yours, there are 30 dutch, 10 brits, 10 french and 5 danes and 5 pirates, instead of putting 30 dutch vs rest the game put 20 dutch and 5 pirates vs 10 brits 10 french and 5 danes leaving the rest out this example is very rough but you get the point. i just noticed that with my example it goes above the max of 50 per match(25 on each side) but lets assume that there is no limit for the amount of people in a match Edited October 19, 2015 by OlavDeng2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 the thing however was that the dutch had 18 and there were 7 brits, 7 french and a bunch of other smaller parts, why could the match making not have done something like dutch vs the rest? Perhaps of the ship size. Will show in a theoretical example. Lets for simplicity assume Santisima is 500 battle rating and Lynx is 50 battle rating Lets say there are 10 dutch in Santisimas and 10 British in Lynxes Then the battle generated will be 1 Dutch Santi vs 10 British Lynxes. 9 Dutch will miss the battle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Perhaps of the ship size. Will show in a theoretical example. Lets for simplicity assume Santisima is 500 battle rating and Lynx is 50 battle rating Lets say there are 10 dutch in Santisimas and 10 British in Lynxes Then the battle generated will be 1 Dutch Santi vs 10 British Lynxes. 9 Dutch will miss the battle fair enough, i dont excactly know what was in the battle, however i am pretty sure that there were some frigates and such in the dutch team(the side the dutch were on) that could have gone to the other side and instead one of the actual dutch guys(like me) could be putt in, honestly i would say while the match maker should prioritise that one nation should all be on the same team, if that isnt possible instead of leaving people out it should ignore that rule, as for me personally i would rather have fought and sunk my nation mates(sorry guys) than miss out on an event like this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booyaah Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Just have some logic that places the 2 nations with the highest BR on different sides, then when there's only 1-2 other nations left, it will just split the smaller nations up to achieve balance, rather than leave ppl out. If the nation with the largest BR is higher than all the other nations combined, then split off just enough players from that nation to even it up I guess. Probably the best way would be to give us the old lobby back and give everyone ready buttons. 300 sec timer countdown would start once 75% ppl hit ready button or battle will instantly start once everyone hits ready. edit: sorry I got tied up with some other pvp stuff and only realized 10 minutes before the battle started that I needed to go but couldn't get back to port in time >< Edited October 19, 2015 by Booyaah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 we can temporarily disable nation balancing but it will guarantee that your nation mates will be on the other side every battle. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Bubbles Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Hi, Although fighting per nation is part of the fun, I wouldnt mind remove it temporarily, cus it will increase participation. Long term: In ST there were the battle rooms, so ppl were able to assemble the teams themselves. Isnt that the easiest way? grtzzz Bubbles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 In ST there were the battle rooms, so ppl were able to assemble the teams themselves. Isnt that the easiest way? We remember how it end up. People getting onto one side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sella Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Just a quick thought.Only for this early phase of course. What if you could create 3-4 men squads so that friends that want to be on the same team will be in the same team but they wont be able to pick what team that is because it will be random.And then other people or squads fill the remaining gaps? Makes everyone happy i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddykrueger66 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 we can temporarily disable nation balancing but it will guarantee that your nation mates will be on the other side every battle. Thoughts? Dont disable it for large battles, only for small ones that way there is an actual use for the small battles. Also please lower the amount of players for a generic fight or a timer after 8 ppl joined. when the playerbase grows you can still increase it. Atm its either 8 ppl or nothing which is really weird. Since you cant abuse generic fights i think its perfect for 1v1s aswell. A lobby for generic fights would also be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schuetzengel Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 if there is an inbalance, the matchmaker should show it to the people and give them an opportunity to switch to a lighter ship. im sure most players would participate in a smaller ship, instead of getting dropped out without a warning 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Bubbles Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 We remember how it end up. People getting onto one side :-( Trolls on the internet, cant live with them, cant kill them either... To block this abuse I would suggest following rules: - every player has to agree with the suggested setup by clicking an ok box before the battle starts. - trolls can be removed from battleroom if all other participants mark him as a troll. This rules set is still open for abuse, I realize that, just looking for a way to keep the trafalgar-tradition up and running without the hassle of sailing to Plymouth or losing partcipants because of balancing issues. Grtzzz Bubbles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyShelby Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I stopped taking part of the Trafalgar's back when we had to sail to Plymouth and then spend 2 hours organizing before we actually got the battle started. I haven't taken part in a single Trafalgar since the wipe. It's nice to not have to spend 2 hours organizing everyone but at the same time i'm not really interested in playing on a random team. For me teamwork is such a big part of Naval Action that being put on a random team isn't much fun to me.I might as well play WoWS.. :/ Why can't we have 2 lobbies? One that is "customizable" similar to what Bubbles describes, so that we can arrange the teams. Another that is exactly what we have now. Random BUT almost 100% balanced battles. In all honesty, when the game launches, we might as well have 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 5v5, 10v10, 15v15 and 25v25 lobbies. That or we'll need a way to enter "queue" in "division" as they call it in WoWS. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booyaah Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 I think Bubbles and Tommy have the right idea. Let players choose their teammates, but require the players to balance the BR before allowing the battle to start. I have some ideas, I will mock up some simple screens that should achieve this without too much complexity. Maybe have 2 events: large event (custom) - what we are proposing large event (balanced) - current system 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavalicious Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I also think the battle timer needs to be doubled. Battles of that size should have 1.5-2 hours worth of battle time. And ideally on saturdays have no cool down on large events. Would be nice to do these large battles back to back for as long as the numbers hold 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSandwich Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Gentlemen, Today's Trafalgar starts at 22.00 CEST Live stream at: http://www.twitch.tv...l_steelsandwich The following gentlemen are recording: Brandonchat (Alex Hekkink) - https://www.youtube....ZNXhYdeMKFDF5Lw Olav van Deng (OlavDeng2) - https://www.youtube....R_7qTDSexusaQww Between () is the youtube channel name. I hope to see you all in the large event! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 well, i wont be recording... for the second time since the game didnt put me in again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandonchat Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I agree with Jacob. Ignore the event option, it simply doesnt work. I do however have to disagree with smaller ships engage in a seperate fight. The Trafalger battles were introduced to have big battles so the more the better. Ill gladly record it again and upload it to my youtube channel if the Trafalgars will be organised at Plymouth (or maybe a more central port without AI ships around). Ill check in next week! Cheers P.s. I think that, as long as ppl keep using the Event option, the devs wont resolve the problem. Its not a priority (wich i understand). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booyaah Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Yeah, 2nd week in a row, I couldn't get in. Here's what it looked like: About 40 players waiting for battle: Once the battle started, about 16 ppl got left out... So where do you guys want to start meeting again? Honestly a lot of US players don't really hang around Plymouth that much anymore. Plus the Brits/Dutch area got moved away as well and not many French/Swedes play so I don't see much of a point to keep doing it at Plymouth. Would any of you guys be open to a more central map location? Maybe a Neutral location with not much AI traffic like Portillo? (SE edge of Cuba) I'm not sure... Oh and if you haven't seen take a look at the new thread I made: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7473-trafalgar-event-room-improvements/ Edited October 24, 2015 by Booyaah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 doing it in a more central location wouldnt be a problem to me, but i think for now we definetly cant use the event system, if it included everyone i would say that is best however just like you i got excluded for a second time... and honestly it is not fun, waiting and preparing for 1 week for a trafalgar... and then not get included :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques de Montagne Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) This is unsettling. When setting this up manually we knew that a perfect balance cannot be achieved. In my eyes it is more important to "leave no captain behind" while accepting unequalities of the teams - possibly by widening the margins of force balance for the events. When more players become available at later stages of development, match making will be ALOT easier to figure out, but right now alot of testers are waiting for just this singular battle each week. A stopgap measure could be allowing event organisers to manually allocate captains within the event menu - this feature can be evolved later to allow players to create custom battles. It would encompass an overview over the total number of ships of each type allocated to each fleet, the respective battle ratings and maybe the option to split a faction if the balance/players/type of event profit from it. While typing this I saw your new thread....good work, so I'll stop right here! While yesterday certainly dissapointed 16 captains, I am still glad we are taking big leaps forward to help shape the battle feature - look where we started a few weeks ago! Regarding a new location for manual battles, I agree that populations have changed and moving to cuba possibly entices more spanish players to join us. I just hope we don't need to go back to manual battles since they take a lot of time to set up and prevent us from expanding to other weekdays. Edited October 25, 2015 by Jacob de Montagne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSandwich Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) I would like to express a small note of critique. The wind always turns in favor of team England. For the people who aren't familiar with the event or havn't paid attention to the wind, ill post some numbers. The numbers are matching from the last several Trafalgars. Both steams spawn facing 180°, wind starts from 0°. @54.00 minutes; wind from 10° @52.00 minutes; wind from 30° @50.00 minutes; wind from 50° Now, i do realize that this is the case in normal battles that occur in the OW as well, yet i feel that this confines France to a severe disadvantage in every battle. There is simply no way that France can seize the wind. Last Trafalgar our side decided to charge the English line, only to be stopped dead in our tracks halfway through our charge. Don't get me wrong, i'd love to have a changing wind, yet that is completely different from a predictable wind, which is horrendous. Edited October 25, 2015 by SteelSandwich 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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