[UPDATE 26-6-2015 Restored on AppStore] Our game has been removed from AppStore

[Bambusek]

If there is any type of appeal process that keeps the game as it is, I say go for it.

 I would say - no. Just no. Apple is wrong here, no matter their reason and intentions. So if Apple wants game back - they should reach to Game Labs first, not other way around.

 

I approve of Game Labs not changing anything in the game.

[Crowgasm]

As a light aside, might I suggest: rework a version of the game with Union becoming Microsoft branded and the Confederacy having the Apple logo and branding. Tweak unit attributes to heavily favor Union side and let the PC slaughter begin? I wonder if they'd sell THAT version of the game? 

[chiefmagua]

What concerns me is that Apple does own the App Store it leaves end-users no other option of obtaining software for their iOS devices.

While I agree with Game Labs not knuckling under to Apple's draconian decision, it does leave the end-user in the lurch for bug fixes, expansions or upcoming versions of the game.

Has the Mac version been removed from the Mac App Store?

Chief

[Arvenski]

Dude, your post is still in this thread. You said "this social justice bullcrap."

 

There is nothing there to specify that you are talking about kneejerk internet crazies, and I see no reason to give you the benefit of the doubt at a time like this. If that's what you meant, then the correction is noted. And your apology for being careless with your terms would be accepted, if offered.

 

If you can't say what you mean and mean what you say, I suggest steering clear of political discussion in the wake of mass murder.

 

Strawman. Apple isn't a SJW. And there is zero indication that Apple was motivated by protests against flags in videogames. And if so, it is obvious that almost no one takes such protests (if we can find any evidence that they exist) seriously.

 

So you understand why I find your rush to judgment and strawman construction troubling.

"And there is zero indication that Apple was motivated by protests against flags in videogames." What else would've motivated Apple to make this decision other than the fear that the portrayal of Confederate flags would offend people, and that such feelings would result in negative publicity being directed at themselves? And the only people crazy enough to be so offended, that I know of, are the SJWs. Hence my comment about "social justice bullcrap", which, given the context that I just explained, seems obvious to me that it refers to said SJWs and not necessarily to social justice as a whole. I make no apology for what I said, as I feel that what I said requires no such apology, as I have already tried to explain. And just for the record, I really don't give a shit about what you find "troubling." If anything, I find you high-horse morally-superior attitude troubling, because it makes you even harder to put up with than you already are. 

[Crowgasm]

"And there is zero indication that Apple was motivated by protests against flags in videogames." What else would've motivated Apple to make this decision other than the fear that the portrayal of Confederate flags would offend people, and that such feelings would result in negative publicity being directed at themselves? And the only people crazy enough to be so offended, that I know of, are the SJWs. Hence my comment about "social justice bullcrap", which, given the context that I just explained, seems obvious to me that it refers to said SJWs and not necessarily to social justice as a whole. I make no apology for what I said, as I feel that what I said requires no such apology, as I have already tried to explain. And just for the record, I really don't give a shit about what you find "troubling." If anything, I find you high-horse morally-superior attitude troubling, because it makes you even harder to put up with than you already are. 

 

It seems that you two are more in agreement about the central issue but stumbling on communication?

 

It sounds like Arvenski is saying that Apple pulled the game due to concern about how they'd be perceived selling an item with confederate flags in it, but not specifcially or singularly in this game's context.

 

It sounds like Maturin is saying Apple pulled the game because of how Apple perceived the risks of selling the game with confederate flag images so they're 'covering their corporate asses'.

 

Aren't those two viewpoints pretty close? I don't really see anyone saying some tiny SJW collective has caused Apple to pull the game or that they think a mass shooting in SC is insignificant/terrible?

 

I see some flashpoints over terms like 'political correctness' or making a comment that might (rather tangentally) be considered insensitive in light of the events in Charleston, SC, in the last week. It might be fair to say that the SC shootings were the latest in a lengthy line of racial cases that, as I said above, cause people to scream 'something must be done'. However, since it's too hard to do anything quick about race/guns/justice, we leap to conversations like this, about addressing the presence of a culturally offensive icon, which in turn means our giant corporations have a PC fit in order to be seen as sensitive and addressing the issue.

 

But really, you're closer than you think?

 

Kumbayah now, people.

[Crankey]

BAN "THE DUKES OF HAZARD!"

 

lets forget and sweep under the floor a decisive period in American history. OMG what do you mean "The Alamo?" isnt that a superstore ?

[R.E.B.Blunt]

Lets ban Apple, how bout dem apples.

[NorthernWolves]

Game Labs, please resubmit the game with the Nazi battle flag in place of the Confederate flag. It will be a statement to the absurd hypocrisy of the totalitarian progressive brownshirts.

 

This is almost too hard to believe, Apple, Ebay, Amazon.... wow.

[BungeeLemming]

My suggestion:

exchange the flag with the german swastika and see how its not going to be banned.

One massmurdering incident is just better than the other.. like MURICA FUCK YEAH..

 

I dont get apple on that one. historical accuratess is absolutely no crime whatsoever.

*edit my rant*

Sry for that

 

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/25/apple-pulls-civil-war-games-from-app-store-over-confederate-flag-imagery

the madness is already all over 'murica

[Álvar Núñez Cabeza de Vaca]

I think the real reason behind them not petioning Apple to try and get Ultimate General back on the app store is not because they think they can't, but because it just isn't worth the effort. I mean, I doubt that sales on Apple devices came even close to those on the PC.

[Tettric]

Apple products are produced by people in Asian countries in appalling working conditions with barely any pay...

I wonder if the Apple logo should be banned due to its ties to such terrible affairs...

[llcw08]

With all the International support that this game has; shouldn't we band together and bombard Apple with complaints? -Louis.

[llcw08]

This cannot be Considered remedy/response to the current, ethical climate in the US.

 

I cannot believe this 'inside-the-box', cut and run response from Apple. -Louis.

[GenJeFT]

Hello.

I have just purchased this game, I was never really interested in getting it (but I do have the Naval Action game). When I was a kid I played civil war games to death burning myself out on them and now largely view them as history textbooks in a way since much of this history is no longer taught in schools thanks to PC crap.

But one thing I will never stand for a censorship. I have bought it for that reason and that reason alone.

I will be making a video of it to post on youtube. It will be a bit of a soapbox video about whats going on, I hope you dont mind. I also hope it gets you some more sales.

[Jaeson]

Hi All, 

 

Just want to say kudos to the devs for standing ground. The hypocrisy of Apple is maddening. I don't want to get involved in the societal debate of the flag in modern context, but to say this is a historically based game. If you talented folks do change your mind (because I think you shouldn't keep your great game from people due to Apple's hypocrisy) and show Apple the finger at the same time: Allow me to give you a flag to submit.

 

http://navalaction.forumflash.com/uploads/gallery/album_178/tn_gallery_13586_178_317361.png

 

pic also now my profile pic

 

I'm not that great with design but feel free to change and run with it. 

 

Free use, no attribution, free use for commercial purposes

 

image of apple and worm  is also free use for commercial purposes no attribution necessary

 

image from : https://pixabay.com/en/apple-worm-fruit-earthworm-happy-36282/

 

rest is me free commercial use no attribution necessary, feel free to make derivatives.

 

Pollice Verso is latin for "with turned thumb" when the roman crowds/mobs would decide the fate of a gladiator.

 

"fiducia in hypocrisi" is a google translation english to latin of "confidence in hypocrisy"

 

 

I'm sure they would still say no, but it would be hilarious.

No need to attribute or compensate, (but I would LOVE a copy of Naval Action ( I can't wait.))

 

 

Have a great day, jae 

[akd]

I suggest we start an immediate Twitter campaign to have Glory removed from iTunes.

By the way, Apple may be doing UG:G a bit of a favor with their stupidity:

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/06/25/apple-pulls-civil-war-games-showing-confederate-flag-from-its-app-store/

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102789712

UG:G mentioned in multiple national news outlets.

[NBForrest]

This what Shelby Foote, A renowned civil war historian an novelist, said one time when he was asked about the confederate flag.

"The flag is a symbol my great grandfather fought under and in defense of. I am for flying it anywhere anybody wants to fly it. I do know perfectly well what pain it causes my black friends, but I think that pain is not necessary if they would read the confederate constitution and knew what the confederacy really stood for. This country has two grievous sins on its hands. One of them is slavery – whether we’ll ever be cured of it, I don’t know. The other one is emancipation – they told 4 million people, you’re free, hit the road, and they drifted back into a form of peonage that in some ways is worse than slavery. These things have got to be understood before they’re condemned. They’re condemned on the face of it because they take that flag to represent what those yahoos represent as – in their protest against civil rights things. But the people who knew what that flag really stood for should have stopped those yahoos from using it as a symbol of what they stood for. But we didn’t – and now you had this problem of the confederate flag being identified as sort of a roughneck thing, which it is not.”

 

The confederate flag is an historic symbol. Why don't take down the American Flag because of all the native americans the federal govt. slaughtered but of course no one ever talks about that. We cannot rewrite history and we cannot forget history. Removing items that represent our countries history will only cause us to forget. 

Edited June 26, 2015 by NBForrest

[Mirones]

We accept Apple’s decision and understand that this is a sensitive issue for the American Nation. We wanted our game to be the most accurate, historical, playable reference of the Battle of Gettysburg. All historical commanders, unit composition and weaponry, key geographical locations to the smallest streams or farms are recreated in our game’s battlefield.

We receive a lot of letters of gratitude from American teachers who use our game in history curriculum to let kids experience one of the most important battles in American history from the Commander’s perspective.

Spielberg’s “Schindler’s List” did not try to amend his movie to look more comfortable. The historical “Gettysburg” movie (1993) is still on iTunes. We believe that all historical art forms: books, movies, or games such as ours, help to learn and understand history, depicting events as they were. True stories are more important to us than money.

Therefore we are not going to amend the game’s content and Ultimate General: Gettysburg will no longer be available on AppStore. We really hope that Apple’s decision will achieve the desired results. We can’t change history, but we can change the future.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2015/06/25/apple-bans-civil-war-games-from-app-store-over-confederate-flag/

[Crowgasm]

It's a rather good case in point of the 'the winner writes the history books' maxim.

 

I agree with Foote and I'd venture a number of my black southern american friends would find that a reasonable statement, on many levels. They would at least find it a considered option, devoid of racial measurement. Foote was a humanist, above all, and writes with greater dignity on the terrible ethical paradox of the Confederacy better than any writer I can think of.

 

Again, the context is critical - what the flag meant to him is not the same as what it might mean to some racist yahoo who's flying it from his car hood or roof. The problem there, of course, is what to make of the Foote type flag advocate who finds value in the symbol and conveys it with some grace, dignity and respect and doesn't hold with the sterotype (to put it rather generously) of what the image otherwise conveys to many. Whose fault is that? The individual who thinks different and is naive to not understand the weight of the thing, or the majority/group who fail to understand subtly and context, oblivious that someone as egalitarian as Foote can also revere the Confederate icon? That's not a leaflet discussion.

[Crowgasm]

The confederate flag is an historic symbol. Why don't take down the American Flag because of all the native americans the federal govt. slaughtered but of course no one ever talks about that. We cannot rewrite history and we cannot forget history. Removing items that represent our countries history will only cause us to forget. 

 

This may be moving off topic somewhat and this might be elementary but I venture the argument here goes thus:

 

1. I can revere the American constitution, flag and bill of rights whilst taking serious issue with how some have interpretted, abused or ignored those values in the name of their country.

2. Supporting the ideals of the constitution, bill of rights and flag does not mean you concur with or support the criminal or amoral attitudes or actions of those who would commit crimes, by their view, in the name of their country

3. That some have behaved despicably in the name of their country does not mean that many have not behaved with great bravery, nobility and sacrifice, nor does it lessen or invalidate their actions.

3. The agents of the US Government have committed grave sins against native american tribes, prisoners of war, groups and individuals of note, either by design or apathy, does not invalidate the value of the principles held in those documents, nor the 'spiritual' iconic value of the flag.

4. Freedom to support your country and its principles is also freedom to criticise it and its actions to march to a different drum.

5. Burning flags is a rather coarse and immature form of protest but the right to do so should remain inviolable - construct an argument instead, but not everyone can - who would deny burning of a flag doesn't remain a powerful image, if not unifying.

6. The Confederate flag carries with it considerable cultural power - to attempt to hide or ban it only attempts to hide where we've come from and what we were.

 

Speaking personally, I rather despise patriotism ('last refuge of the scoundrel' and all that) and have mild intestinal discomfort at things like the national anthemn, pledge of allegiance and the generally tight bind between 'religion' and 'country' here in the USA, perhaps especially as a legal alien (ha!), however, the principles and ideas in those founding documents do seem rather sacred and worth fighting for. Ideas over groups, I would say. That we implement them imperfectly is not terribly surprising, given how imperfect we are? They we try to do so in spite of so many falls is all the more admirable?

 

Anyway, time to open whiskey and raid a field somewhere!

[maturin]

 

"The flag is a symbol my great grandfather fought under and in defense of. I am for flying it anywhere anybody wants to fly it. I do know perfectly well what pain it causes my black friends, but I think that pain is not necessary if they would read the confederate constitution and knew what the confederacy really stood for. This country has two grievous sins on its hands. One of them is slavery – whether we’ll ever be cured of it, I don’t know. The other one is emancipation – they told 4 million people, you’re free, hit the road, and they drifted back into a form of peonage that in some ways is worse than slavery. These things have got to be understood before they’re condemned. They’re condemned on the face of it because they take that flag to represent what those yahoos represent as – in their protest against civil rights things. But the people who knew what that flag really stood for should have stopped those yahoos from using it as a symbol of what they stood for. But we didn’t – and now you had this problem of the confederate flag being identified as sort of a roughneck thing, which it is not.”

 

 

Yeah, he can suck it, 'renown' or no.

 

After the 'crime' of emancipation, freed slaves didn't "drift" into peonage. They were put there with the gun, by domestic terrorists flying the very same stars and bars we're discussing here. (In the meantime they were actually taking part in the governance of the South, with policies that started to reverse its backwardness, but 150 years of propaganda have erased and libeled this period irretrievably.) The battle flag was simply not a popular or cherished symbol before its use by the wildly popular KKK, no matter how much certain people stick their fingers in their ears and pretend otherwise.

 

There never was a noble meaning of any significance that was lost because of the 'yahoos.' The yahoos are the only reason the flag is around today. It was popularized by the men in white hoods, until it crept into usage by polite (and non-Southern) society. Because the KKK was polite society. They were just as mainstream as ISIS is in Mosul today. If certain people wanted to honor their ancestors, they missed the boat.

 

 

We cannot rewrite history and we cannot forget history. Removing items that represent our countries history will only cause us to forget.

Forgetting is precisely what the flag worshipers want everyone they do. Forget everything the flag has meant, forget everything negative about it and the cause it represents, and only remember the insulting sugarcoated interpretation that was concocted in later decades.

 

 

 

6. The Confederate flag carries with it considerable cultural power - to attempt to hide or ban it only attempts to hide where we've come from and what we were.

 

No one is asking that this symbol be suppressed or hidden. There is however an outrageous excess that needs to be corrected. Which is to say, the flag should take its rightful place along with other symbols of our history. In museums and on the covers of history books (or videogames). NOT flown on the lawns of government building as a disgusting affront to everyone who has suffered from white supremacy and the domestic terrorism that defended it.

 

And there is nothing craven or anti-free speech about private companies deciding not to profit from the sale of flags that symbolize hatred and treason. That's a laudable stance to take.

 

 

Apple aside, of course. History must never be sanitized. I applaud Game Labs for their refusal to bowdlerize their game, and if I had been in charge of writing their statement I would have been a lot less conciliatory.

[Lincolns Mullet]

I was going to write something out about all this, but I've calmed down now and just want to say I loved Gamelabs' response and I hope all this publicity fills their coffers.

[Mirones]

as a side note UGG is now on the Steam front page.

In gaben we trust

[ployer]

Honestly, i hadn't heard of this game before today. But i bought it on GOG.com for two reasons, one it looks really cool the other i wanted to support you guys.

[dan75th]

http://www.apple.com/feedback/itunesapp.html