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[UPDATE 26-6-2015 Restored on AppStore] Our game has been removed from AppStore


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Therefore we are not going to amend the game's content and Ultimate General: Gettysburg will no longer be available on AppStore. We really hope that Apple’s decision will achieve the desired results.

 

 

This is exactly the reaction I was expecting from you guys.

Good form. You have our respect.

I wish more developers would have the integrity and balls that you guys just displayed, and take a stand against social hysteria as opposed to bowing to it. Good news is; if the recent history of games like Hatred are any indication, you putting your foot down has probably increased your sales more than caving ever would.

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What. The Fuck.

 

 

This is teachable moment, actually. So-called political correctness is just decent people showing each other respect... until the idea gets taken up by large controversy-averse corporations with more cowardice than brains.

 

 

Yeah, we don't need that social justice bullcrap. Not like a bunch of people were just murdered for their skin color or anything...

 

Here's your gif right back at you:

982785273632438193.gif

 

Every flag has some dark history behind it. Ban all flags? 

 

OK but there are so many other symbols that have similar associations - ban them too?

 

And what about places and historical people? Write them out of the history books? Those books are starting to look pretty thin....

Edited by mouse of war
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Tim Cook, CEO of Apple is an abject hypocrite along with anyone else who supports banning a flag.

 

Homosexuality is illegal in 17 nations that Apple sells to. In four of them, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, being gay may be punishable by death. An Apple owned-and-operated store will open in Saudi Arabia early next year where women are not even allowed to drive. This is all ok by Tim, he even flew personally to seal the Saudi deal, but he recently lectured lawmakers in 2 American states over pro-religious liberty laws that did not outlaw nor ban homosexuality.

 

This is the kind of person that bans Confederate flags in strategy games because banning the Confederate flag is the jackboot flavor of the week.

 

All of these people pretend to be intellectuals but they are merely hypocritical squalling children. You can buy SS flags, Nazi propaganda posters and anything Stalinist/Leninists on Amazon right now, but not a flag that was flown by the Confederate states. Explain that.

 

The legality point of this irrelevant, unless someone was talking about suing them, which I haven't seen anywhere, it just muddles the discussion. The issue is not about state capitals, that's another issue, completely separate. 

 

This is about Game Labs having UG removed, along with 233 other games, by ban happy authoritarian thought police, who aren't even consistent with their thought policing.

 

There is a hippie restaurant near my house that sells Che Guevara burritos (you can't get murder or execution hot sauce with that, I asked), but I'm sure they support Amazon pulling board games about the Civil War. 

 

And this isn't 'Murica' in action, this is a handful of extremist activists who enjoy wallowing in a perpetual state of being offended. They are present in every Western nation, from Germany to America, from France to Sweden, it is not unique to any one country.

I'm glad GL are not going to erase history to appease these maniacs.

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Game Labs, you have my full support. One should never make simplistic reasoning and there should be no confusion between racism and historical reenactment of battles.

 

However, devs of historical games, just as well historic novelists or filmmakers, have to deliver a clear message about the time period they deal with. That's an ethical issue IMO. Spielberg's Schindler's List is clear about nazism, even if svastikas are shown. Game Labs was too in NA by excluding slavery (there are other ways to deal with it, I guess, but it isn't the point here).

 

It is harder to deliver a message in wargames such as War Thunder or Company of heroes in which one can play both sides, that is in the camp of the Nazi Germany, or Ultimate General Gettysburg in which one can fight for what is known to have been, right or wrong (I'm no expert), the side of pro-slavery and for what is nowadays a symbol of racism for some (the confederate flag). 

 

The confederate flag has to be in UG Gettysburg (in the name of realism) but GL has also to deliver a clear message about it.  :)

Art (and games) is all about messages.

Just my opinion.

 

(PS : however, that may have already be done in-game or on the web site, I ain't well-informed about that.)

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I support Game Labs 100% in their decision and will continue to support them by purchasing their games. It's interesting that the left supports attacking Christian values every day by applauding the cross in a jar of urine in an "art exhibit" for example,  but cannot tolerate a flag that has historical relevance to our nation in a "computer game". I am agnostic by the way.

 

I also find it interesting that Apple allows games and music that show and describe violence against women, use the "N" word freely and promote gangs and thug life.

 

It's also interesting that Apple has stores in a number of countries that deny men and women their human rights, outlaw alternative lifestyles and stone people to death and cut off limbs for things such as adultery, homosexuality and common theft. Hmmm, I guess that's where money is to be made for Apple.

 

Political Correctness in this country is slowly strangling our freedom of expression. This decision by Apple and other companies is just another step towards this sad nightmare. The PC people are all about control. As long as you agree with them you are fine, but if you have a different viewpoint then watch out. Non-believers will be demagogued until they are shut up!

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This is just one unfortunate side effect of a continuing offensive to exploit and exacerbate promote racial and cultural divisions and historical wounds for political capital and pushing culture change. The corollary of "Never let a crisis go to waste" should be "The bigger the crisis grows, the more can be gained." So there is a conscious (I think mendacious) purpose in the frothing madness.

 

Anyway, Game-Labs has taken a very reasoned and restrained approach in its acceptance of Apple's decision.

 

As for me, though

 

"Apple bans Gettysburg game due to Confederate battle flag - is Apple whitewashing history?" 

 

is a fair capsule summary of an action the intelligence of which speaks for itself to anyone who has heard of that Pennsylvania town, history which is, sad to say, increasingly bypassed in education in this, Apple's home state.

 

I am surprised, offended and outraged by Apple's action - a ridiculous, petty, and unworthy over-reaction showing lack of perspective and perhaps even founded in historical ignorance. It is an embarrassment to that flagship American and California company and by extension to the country. It appears almost comedic in its stupidity, and whomever made this decision should have the opportunity to explain and justify this on television - it would be awkward for one of Apple's lesser lights to argue that its customers would otherwise be angry because they are too ignorant of history to understand the distinctions involved (already nicely elucidated in the posts above).   

 

In the morning I shall try to reach Apple PR by a call or visit to Cupertino to offer my polite assessment and ask and advise that they reverse their action with the same alacrity they have shown for some other misjudgments. Maybe I could speak with the Apple spokeswoman who told CNBC "We have removed apps from the App Store that use the Confederate flag in offensive or mean-spirited ways, which is in violation of our guidelines. We are not removing apps that display the Confederate flag for educational or historical uses."  Might she argue that the grey sprites go on the "offensive" using the Virginia standard, and combat between sprites is "mean-spirited."  

 

After that, civic action that might make a difference - picketing and the media, and of course Apple's annual meeting (but that is not until March of next year). I wonder if counter-picketers would show up in favor of banning Civil War games? 

 

Been a long time since I picketed, and that was against products of slave labor (not referring to Apple here). This issue is trivial in comparison to the injustice of those savage violations of individual rights, but this is injustice of a sort as well to the player base, especially those who have the game, and offensive to good sense.   

 

P.S. Apple's codes and rules of conduct and terms and conditions etc. are a mare's nest to read through and I haven't pored over them, but if anyone found something relevant there to the the argument please feel free to let me know.

 

P.P.S. Is there a complete list of UGG hotkeys/mouse actions somewhere that I can print out? I had hastily scribbled what I knew on a notecard but it suffered from legibility issues and an ignominious fate.  

 

Thanks.

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I guess the one good thing that has come of Apple's decision mistake regarding the Gettysburg game is that people like myself have now heard of it. I used to play strategy games and WW2 flight sims on my PC. I've been too busy to do so for some time. However, this Gettysburg game looks pretty good. I intend to puchase and download it for my PC tonight. Sadly, I won't be getting it for my iPad. The Age of Sail game looks good, too!

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i try to speak blunt and to the point...this is a travesty...the pc police have to go...people have litterly lost their minds...robots that the gov and the media heard like mindless cattle...under the guise that its for our safety and social ambiguity

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This is just ridiculous.

 

I am ALL in favor of removing the ANV battle flag from our government buildings; frankly, it is the battle flag of a traitor nation that killed hundreds of thousands of Americans, and subsequently went on to become a primary symbol for a number of hate groups across the United States.  I have zero patience or sympathy for it being, in any way, recognized by a government meant to represent ALL, and which SHOULD espouse the United States of America.  Why any private individual would take pride in what the flag stands for baffles me, but if you want to be a fool, go ahead, we protect that right in the United States.

 

That said, the idea that the flag cannot be featured in a historical manner?  Absolutely the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.  If I may... F Apple.

 

I am totally stunned by this.  Thank you to Game Labs for taking the only rational (although possibly financially difficult) path.

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Every flag has some dark history behind it. Ban all flags? 

 

OK but there are so many other symbols that have similar associations - ban them too?

 

And what about places and historical people? Write them out of the history books? Those books are starting to look pretty thin....

Please read my posts before posting nonsense. I explicitly responded to all those asinine points before you even raised them.

 

 

Except the bit about the dark history of most flags. That's worth considering, and I would view it in poor taste to have a US flag parade at Wounded Knee of My Lai, a Japanese flag in Nanking, etc. If this were a decent country, the same circumspection would be exercised here. (And you'd think that people would feel ashamed about violent treason, but ya know, baby steps.)

 

Most importantly, the national flags that I mentioned belong to actual existing countries. With actual citizens and actual accomplishments. It's almost always obvious that they signify the country itself, no matter how many atrocities that particular state has on record. There is always a reason to fly a national flag, no questions asked. But the CSA isn't and wasn't a country. It was demolished like the hypocritical oligarchic abortion that it was, and consigned to the dustheap of history. So the whole flag dynamic works a bit differently there.

 

 

 

Tim Cook, CEO of Apple is an abject hypocrite along with anyone else who supports banning a flag.

The bullshit in this thread is too thick to keep up with. Removing good or service from sale =/= ban. No one is banning a flag. Practically no one is even proposing a ban.

Rather, companies are taking a privileged stance by REFUSING TO PROFIT from the sale of a symbol of hate. This has nothing to do with banning. Everyone knows that the Stars and Bars will continue to be sold. Certain companies just don't want to be the ones doing it.

Likewise, removing a flag from a statehouse, canceling a Confederate holiday or removing a statue to a Klansman has nothing to do with banning these symbols. You have to have a foot-thick skull not to realize that these shameful symbols are being actively promoted by the power of the state, with the force of law behind it, at taxpayer expense. It's downright criminal that governments across the country use public resources to glorify atrocities carried out against their own citizens.

 

 

All of these people pretend to be intellectuals but they are merely hypocritical squalling children. You can buy SS flags, Nazi propaganda posters and anything Stalinist/Leninists on Amazon right now, but not a flag that was flown by the Confederate states. Explain that.

 

Really? I have to explain that? An SS or Red Army reenactor didn't murder nine people in cold blood recently. But I apologize for bringing that ancient history up and distracting from the real tragedy of Gettysburg: Ultimate General, lol. Also, I just checked and I'm pretty sure you can't buy that Swastika flags on Amazon, so you're sort of stretching here. Propaganda posters are historical documents or at least a kitsch item, and I'll remind you that Amazon is a different country that makes allowances for historical context.

 

(For the reading comprehension-impaired, I will add the usual disclaimer that I disdain Apple's removal of the flag in proper historical context, but I support companies' general removal of flags from sale.)

 

And this isn't 'Murica' in action, this is a handful of extremist activists who enjoy wallowing in a perpetual state of being offended. They are present in every Western nation, from Germany to America, from France to Sweden, it is not unique to any one country.

 

The obliviousness of people in this thread is just devastating. How numb can you be?

 

How can you write the words "handful of extremist activists... in every Western nation" and not be talking about Dylann Roof? Or Dzokhar Tsarnaev for that matter?

 

Reading this thread is a real headtrip. It's pretty clear that the fact of a deadly terrorist attack on American soil gave none of you pause. No, it takes the banning of an app to really have you up in arms.

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Apple has every right to do what it did, and as consumers, we don't have to buy Apple products because of it's blatant hypocrisy on a myriad of issue.  I applaud GL for not falling into this worthless argument and changing the graphics of the game.  

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I purchased the game on Steam to play on my Mac, explicitly due to this nonsensical decision on Apple's part. And as an AAPL stockholder, albeit a very minor one, I will be voting my shares against Tim Cook and the entire board of directors, assuming this doesn't get rectified before the next annual shareholder's meeting.

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I have been on the phone to Apple for a few hours. They have a lot of voicemail barriers. Left some voicemails, suffered a disconnnect, working my way around and escalated to some people who could discuss this and can forward to people who may know what's going on. They are sympathetic but not authorized to make commitments.  

 

My ask is that someone confirm that Apple confirm that it stands behind and is taking prompt action to implement what  has been announced by Apple public relations:

 

"We have removed apps from the App Store that use the Confederate flag in offensive or mean-spirited ways, which is in violation of our guidelines. We are not removing apps that display the Confederate flag for educational or historical uses." {emphasis added}

 

Ultimately the person I spoke with submitted a case and I can call back to follow up. As a courtesy I'll fax a polite letter to the General Counsel's office as well. Lawyers like to know about trouble ahead of time and probably need to clear any public statement of commitments. Maybe there will be some positive action today.  
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This is just one unfortunate side effect of a continuing offensive to exploit and exacerbate promote racial and cultural divisions and historical wounds for political capital and pushing culture change.

 

An offensive to exploit and exacerbate racial and cultural divisions? Really?

 

Silly me, I thought it was people like THIS GUY who were exploiting and exacerbating racial divisions. Gee whiz, somehow I had it all wrong and thought that the enormously popular white supremacist movement was the one who wanted to cause racial strife. You know, those folks who have carried out more terrorist attacks on American soil than jihadists in this century. Thanks for reminding us of the true culprits.

 

DylanRoof.jpg

 

 

Maturin, seriously, calm the eff down. You're way too worked up about this shit. 

People who have used ad hominem attacks shouldn't tell the targets of those attacks to calm down. I think you'd be kind of embarrassed to do so.

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Maturin, seriously, calm the eff down. You're way too worked up about this shit.

Actually I believe he was trying to forestall the inevitable counter outrage that has developed following the initial corporate (Apple) reaction to the situation. Just read through the posts and you see it: them damn PC liberals are banning a symbol of our history and cultural heritage or something to that effect. Inevitably what happens is both sides lose sight of the facts and even the initial argument after being suitably whipped up by their respective media. A couple of salient points:

1. No one is banning anything. No one is closing any confederate museums. The South Carolina legislature is going to vote to remove the flag from a state building. Other states in similar situations may or may not follow suit.

2. The law that was passed to put the flag there in 1962 was in response to the civil rights movement. There was no motive to honor confederate veterans or honor southern heritage. That fact is from a Republican state representative stating that the stars and bars should be in a museum setting.

3. The Shelby Foote quote above brings out the most ironic fact for the Southern heritage argument. The stars and bars was the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, not the flag of the Confederacy.

4. Unfortunately the stars and bars as Maturin noted was co-opted by white supremacy movements starting with the KKK and continuing to this day, irretrievably tainting the flags heritage as a historical battle flag.

BTW for the record what Apple did was a stupid, knee jerk reaction and I support Game-labs position.

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4. Unfortunately the stars and bars as Maturin noted was co-opted by white supremacy movements starting with the KKK and continuing to this day, irretrievably tainting the flags heritage as a historical battle flag.

 

For the record, the flag you are referring to is not called the "stars and bars."

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3. The Shelby Foote quote above brings out the most ironic fact for the Southern heritage argument. The stars and bars was the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, not the flag of the Confederacy.

 

As been noted previous, the "Stars and Bars, flag is actually the 1st National Flag used by the CSA, and the flag more well known now is the Virginia battle flag (and in all actuality, the flag seen most today, the rectangular one, was actually the CSA Navy jack)

 

However, it does well to note that the latter two national flags of the CSA, known as the "Stainless Banner" and "Blood-Stained Banner" respectively, both include the Virginia Battle standard in each flag in its entirety. 

 

Also, I do believe (hope) that Apple will slowly begin to take these things in a case-by-case manner and start reinstating all content where the image is used in a Historical manner (it should have been done this way in the first place. But hey,it's Apple's choice to ban what they want at the slightest twitch. Ah capitalism)

Edited by William the Drake
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People who have used ad hominem attacks shouldn't tell the targets of those attacks to calm down. I think you'd be kind of embarrassed to do so.

Nah, just slightly annoyed with myself for wasting my time trying to get you to see reason, is all. 

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