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Why people don't fight.

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Guest raat

Is it a PVP centric game?

 

What about trading, PVE, sailing, exploring? etc. What about people who sometimes want to PvP but sometimes don't? 

 

The good news is that soon you'll be able to use Skirmish mode and there you won't be bothered by people who don't play the game the way you want them to.

 

This argument is really getting old.  People want OW PvP, not a skirmish room.  Though, Skirmish room will be useful for a quick fix of PvP, it's not what most of us paid $40 for.

 

Also, all those "PvE" elements of the game you listed are balanced by the PvP aspect of the game.   Trading, sailing, exploring, crafting, economy, ports.........ALL of that is a balanced based on how it affects PvP and vice versa.

 

If the game wasn't meant to have significant, continuous loss through PvP, then I'd imagine the devs would be not spending so long on repairs, boarding, and the PvP aspects of the game, and would be on a completely different design path than they're taking now.

 

Can we get passed this, "It's a PvE game to me." and "No, it's a PvP game." already?   Let's acknowledge it's a PvP and PvE game with elements of both.  Trust me, PvP'ers already know that the PvE'er doesn't want to PvP.  But in order for PvP and PvE in this game to work...then PvE'ers need to understand that PvP is a part of the game and you'll be force to participate whether you like it or not.  Otherwise, the economy will be a joke, crazy over-inflated, and I think even PvE'ers will agree that's a bad thing.

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Raatha - yes, but the PVE participation often just has to be running to avoid combat.

The problem is PVPers seem hellbent on making game mechanisms that prevent that simple PVE strategy.

Either you allow both styles of play or you don't.

Edited by GrapeShot

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I've seen plenty of pvp'ers run as a strategy as well. In fact I ran yesturday after being tagged 3 v 7. Of course our three Sunk a Vic, made a Trinc click out, send a Constitution running the opposite direction and demasting a Santi in the process but ultimately those numbers wore us down and I was the only one to escape to then be tagged by battle campers 1 second before making port because of very bad wind. :(. 1v7 in that one. I didn't fare so well there, not to mention I was out of repairs. It was a good fight though and enjoyed the drama of getting out of the first one laughing to see my luck change an inch from port.

 

I hate to speak for all pvp'ers but I don't think they want to avoid the running tactic but they just want it to be more decisive. If I'm catching you then I should catch you. If I'm not then I should not. The idea where every fight comes down to a race against a clock in the last few minutes of the battle is a bad mechanic in my opinion. The reason chases take so long is the speed of the ships. I don't want to see that changed but adjust the battle clock accordingly.

 

If you want to avoid a drawn out hour and a half chase that you are gonna loose in the end then surrender out and all can go their merry way. A lot of pvp'ers will leave you alone after they sink you once under the following conditions:

We aren't at war with your group

You don't just sail straight at us. Show us some respect and we will leave you alone.(cant speak for pirates)

Your not camping in our waters

your not attacking our town or preventing us from attacking yours.

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Pirates really hold out on PvP.

I'm A pirate currently sailing a Lynx and when I was near Mathew town I spotted a player in another Lynx. When I enter battle he just ran with full health and crew.

Perhaps people wouldn't run if the standard ship was a cutter or a yacht like in sea trials.

People with 4 guns run whereas those with 6 fight to the death.

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For years and years Humans have been learning to only fight (mostly) when they have an observable advantage.

 

Why do you think Aircraft Carriers exist?

Why do you think bullies try to victimize younger smaller kids?

Why do you think the U.S. Army uses "shock and awe" before invading?

Why do you think scammers pick on the gullible?

Why do you think car thieves pick easy cars to jack.

 

We like it easy - there is even a Staples ad about just that.

 

----

So

We need to take away some of the incentives to "not" fight .... Perhaps if your ship stayed healthy and vigorous if you fight with it, but if you don't it starts to decay and moral drops off and pretty soon it is easy pickings for another more vigorous Captain and crew.

 

Make it like morning calisthenics --- explore for an hour, PvP , do some trading, PvP , chase down a smuggler or two, top off the night with another PvP or two.

 

?

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all we need is reasons to fight. 

 

Yea, your enjoyment doesn't do it for me ....

 

;)

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What players that focus mainly on pvp never seem to understand in any MMO I've ever played is that if you "force" pvp, the game will quickly die and no one will be left to fight, pvper focused players are always gonna be a small percentage of the total population, most players will pvp in a limited way but most that Ive met won't be forced into doing stuff they don't want to do and just end up quitting the game.

 

Once there's some type of reward (mark of trade/victory) system for pvp winners and losers and once rvr is introduced people will start to pvp more.

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For years and years Humans have been learning to only fight (mostly) when they have an observable advantage.

 

Why do you think Aircraft Carriers exist?

Why do you think bullies try to victimize younger smaller kids?

Why do you think the U.S. Army uses "shock and awe" before invading?

Why do you think scammers pick on the gullible?

Why do you think car thieves pick easy cars to jack.

 

We like it easy - there is even a Staples ad about just that.

 

----

So

We need to take away some of the incentives to "not" fight .... Perhaps if your ship stayed healthy and vigorous if you fight with it, but if you don't it starts to decay and moral drops off and pretty soon it is easy pickings for another more vigorous Captain and crew.

 

Make it like morning calisthenics --- explore for an hour, PvP , do some trading, PvP , chase down a smuggler or two, top off the night with another PvP or two.

 

?

 

"We need to take away some of the incentives to "not" fight " - I would say that 'we' need to not take such an authoritarian attitude

or assume that the current level of PVP is a problem outside the 'PVP is everything' party

 

regards

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"We need to take away some of the incentives to "not" fight " - I would say that 'we' need to not take such an authoritarian attitude

or assume that the current level of PVP is a problem outside the 'PVP is everything' party

 

regards

 

 

In the context of a thread about "why people don't fight" ----- what I typed was certainly not authoritarian, but more "solution" based - with a dash of "what if?" tossed in.

 

If you want to start your own thread about "what authority players and Admin should have" -------- feel free.

 

And FYI Admin has stated a preference for more PvP.

 

regards ;)

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And they've also stated the desire to set up a system that rewards you for fighting, no matter if you win or loose.

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Guest raat

What players that focus mainly on pvp never seem to understand in any MMO I've ever played is that if you "force" pvp, the game will quickly die and no one will be left to fight, pvper focused players are always gonna be a small percentage of the total population, most players will pvp in a limited way but most that Ive met won't be forced into doing stuff they don't want to do and just end up quitting the game.

 

Once there's some type of reward (mark of trade/victory) system for pvp winners and losers and once rvr is introduced people will start to pvp more.

 

Yeah, because Eve Online had such a short run...............................oh wait.

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Yeah, because Eve Online had such a short run...............................oh wait.

 

If eve is so wonderful, we can only wonder why you're here instead of roaming eve nulsec.

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If eve is so wonderful, we can only wonder why you're here instead of roaming eve nulsec.

 

Perhaps the roar of the cannons sounds better on his sound card - than the bing bing bing?

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If eve is so wonderful, we can only wonder why you're here instead of roaming eve nulsec.

 

Perhaps he likes age of sail?

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Going back to the OP, there are other reasons people will chose not to fight.

 

I was playing a Pirate and had a National in the same ship try to engage me, which I easily avoided. He sent me a PM asking why, to which I replied that a pirate does not look for a fair fight, he looks for prey. In a National ship I would engage in a fair fight, but flee from overwhelming odds.

 

For me it is about doing what I believe a captain of that ship would do in that situation. RP'ing the role if you will. If someone who feels this a a "PvP game" gets offended, oh well.

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There is only one way to make ppl fight: Give them something to fight for that is more important than the loss of a ship. 

 

Such things could be:

 

-port control

-ressource control

-war of nutrition

-trade route protection

- fear of greater loss 

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I know another way Puchu... don't attack small lone human ships with two constitutions. ;)

Make pirates more resource and supply sensitive to ensure they avoid naval actions and concentrate on raiding.

 

P.S. I saw some conversation tonight about a British player Habeas Corpus who chased a new players snow and kept attacking and blockading the noobs ports for over 20mins in a constitution. Sunk the players new first ship - low crew snow - before the noob player finally gave up and quit the game apparently.

 

Where exactly is the safe zone for new shallow draught players?

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Yeah, because Eve Online had such a short run...............................oh wait.

 

I played EVE for years, beginning when there were no tutorials and ending around the Aurum times and believe that there are fewer options currently available for PVE focused players to avoid combat in NA than there are in EVE. There is no equivalent of high sec in NA at the moment even though in EVE that's where the highest population density is.

 

From the day I began playing EVE until the day I left there was high sec (mostly safe and I never got ganked there), low sec (pretty much lawless completely unsafe and yet mostly deserted) and 0.0 (player controlled and pretty much completely safe for people in the controlling alliance). What you happily fail to admit is that PVP avoidance mechanics are in place in more than 2/3s of EVE, most of it player enforced. Sure there are gankers, but the minimal amount of care has to be taken to remove nearly all danger. In all those years I took part in PVP I didn't wish to be a part of 1 time. Afterwards I congratulated those that jumped me for a perfect action, no whining, no complaining. They got a good killmail and my very expensive ship was replaced by days end. I was in 0.0 alliance space at the time. PVPers begged for incentives to draw more people to low sec, they got their wish and what happened, no one came. People either want to PVP or don't. Those that don't, or those that like myself enjoy organized PVP but do not enjoy random PVP are highly unlikely to give you your wish of a good fight anytime anywhere no matter the incentives to do so or the disencentives to not.

 

I've stated before and will say it again, the very best games find ways to balance the desires of all gaming types. I hope that NA finds ways to give you the PVP you so desire without attempting to force me to play your game. I also hope that NA finds ways to give me the mix of PVE and trading that I desire without forcing you to play my game.

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Going back to the OP, there are other reasons people will chose not to fight.

 

I was playing a Pirate and had a National in the same ship try to engage me, which I easily avoided. He sent me a PM asking why, to which I replied that a pirate does not look for a fair fight, he looks for prey. In a National ship I would engage in a fair fight, but flee from overwhelming odds.

 

For me it is about doing what I believe a captain of that ship would do in that situation. RP'ing the role if you will. If someone who feels this a a "PvP game" gets offended, oh well.

 

Exactly 

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There is only one way to make ppl fight: Give them something to fight for that is more important than the loss of a ship. 

 

Such things could be:

 

-port control

-ressource control

-war of nutrition

-trade route protection

- fear of greater loss 

 

War of nutrition - Is that kind of war where the loser has to eat their broccoli??    ;)

 

In all seriousness, other than a war of attrition, you've hit most of the list very well.  We need more to fight for than just to fight.  :)

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There is only one way to make ppl fight: Give them something to fight for that is more important than the loss of a ship.

 

Assuming "there is only one way to make people fight" is to assume there is only one reason people choose not to fight, which I doubt is the case.

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Go back to the increased number of Module slots and that will entice people back into PVP.

 

What? how exactly? people can't PVP without needing to have a fuck ton of exceptional upgrades? lol.

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