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Why people don't fight.

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Well, there is at least one reward for fighting and loss; real experience. I don't advise fighting at a ship disadvantage, but losing a ship means less in test than it will after release. It is a natural reaction to avoid loss, but now is the time do be more aggressive and learn from your mistakes.

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tell me where you are, i wont run, i promise.

 

btw... this topic has been talked about 1000000 times. Right now there is no real "reason" to fight, other than the joy of fighting. If the fear of loss is greater than the joy of the fight, ppl will not fight. Once port battles, crafting and ressource stuff are implemented, people will fight for goods and materials and control. Fights will be occuring more and more then. Till now, just call for a duel in the global chat and ppl will respond.

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Why is that?

 

If I encounter a player in OW that isn't in a fleet they will always run, even with a bigger ship... I really have no interest in fighting the AI so this is very bothersome to me.

 

Is it because I'm a pirate? Is the Belle Poule just really scary?

 

Get some friends and come to English Harbour!

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That is the same question I have... Why all enemy players run to me? I am awesome? I smell like roses? Let me go in peace!!! lol

 

P.D. Maybe you smells bad... lol

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normally PvP is like two or more players attack one player(same ship class or just one ship bigger)

 

Team A(2+) vs Team B(1)

-> Team B runs -> Team B escapes = Battle ends

-> Team B runs -> Team B gets help -> Team A is now running -> Team A escapes = Battle ends

 

or

 

Team A (1 in 3rd Rate or bigger) vs Team B (1 or 2 in 5th or 6th rate)

-> Team B runs -> Team B escapes = Battle ends

-> Team A demastes Team B -> Team B sinks = Battle ends

 

I never had a balanced PvP Battle in OW :/ there were always big ships vs small ships or 2+ fighting lonely guys. pls dont wonder, if players are running.

 

EDIT: for your last question: the bellepoule is too strong for other ships in the 5th to 3rd class, if you are a good sailor.

Edited by Epyx OnE
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With the gold increase, if it's not a 5 slot ship, it will actually make you money if you put up a good fight and still lose.  I don't know if the repair cost bug has been fixed if you lose yet as it was still happening to me over last weekend.

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I think people want a fair chance at winning PvP. A fight in the Open World is often tagging someone so your friends can pile in, making it an impossible fight. Why would people waste their time with impossible fights, or give the enemy the satisfaction of sinking you?

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No one wants to be the victim of bullying. As I've said before, during alpha it makes little sense to play for keeps. Give all players a chance to experience pvp without ganging up on them. After release ganking in the national interest is an honest tactic.

Edited by Hugo Leopard

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I'd honestly look to reducing the "Join PvP" thing when a battle starts to just one minute. That way it forces people who are going to participate to actually be visible for it, rather than hiding out way out of the way to jump in midway through.

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Why do you need to win something to have fun? Do you guys find the game that boring to where the only thing keeping you playing is grinding?

Fighting really is the only thing to do in the game right now, you can't really sail in OW so all the fun of that is out the window. I'm not attacking people with a fleet of ships I'm attacking people with one ship (and I don't think the Belle Poule is too powerful for any of the other light frigates, you can easily outmaneuver it with a Renomeee, Surprise, or Cerb and outgun/outrun it with the Trinc). I've attacked Constitutions before with my Belle on multiple occasions and they ran as well...

 

I feel like players just don't want to fight players and just prefer to loop around against the wind with the AI for hours on end.

 

I didn't realize that so many people would respond so quickly, apologize if everything is run to-gether (the quote function locks up my internet).

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Well, after much mulling over - I have sussed out a fix for "why people don't fight". It is actually surprisingly simple to fix.

Just remove the "Captain Identification" from the hailing sequence, make hailing a bot and hailing a Human no different.

-----

Currently there is a tremendous "cat and mouse" game happening at the longer hailing distances ranges. Those that are really really wanting PvP are hunting for a Human to fight, while those looking to "level up" to a better ship or a replacement ship are likely avoiding the Human "hunters" and concentrating on the bots.

Imagine for a second if nobody could tell the humans apart from the bots until the instance had started!

PvP would come naturally as "just a part of the playing of the game" - not some "artificial thing" that you have to bribe people to do.

simple.

Well said!!!

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With the gold increase, if it's not a 5 slot ship, it will actually make you money if you put up a good fight and still lose.  I don't know if the repair cost bug has been fixed if you lose yet as it was still happening to me over last weekend.

 

Yes, but many people have already got more money than they can spend

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I think another thing is that some people just do not want to risk losing even if it's a fair fight or sometimes even if they have an advantage,  they're scared of losing and having their enemies shit talking them after the fight, they don't want to lose, or you could say lose face. Personally I'm not going to stand and fight at a clear disadvantage, i.e my enemy has the wind and also a ship advantage, especially if it's someone I know is fairly good at PvP, I may feel it isn't worth the risk until I have at least one advantage on my side, also sometimes I will avoid a fight if I know that their allies might be close and jump into the battle 5 minutes in. I try to PvP as much as possible without being suicidal though, as none of the durabilities, ships and battles I lose are going to matter until after release and if I want to be good at PvP, I'm going to have to fight.

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There are several potential solutions to this problem (some with benefits and drawbacks)

  • Add PVP honor kills requirement to the progression as a first step encouraging players to pvp more
    • honor kill - victory over the enemy of equal or higher battle rating
  • Force some battle rating equality like in sea trials (despite potential outcries of hardcore sandbox fans)
  • Add escort duty asap

Adding skirmish is not a solution at this stage. This will take many captains off the map. And we won't be able to test the OW properly. We already know skirmish is fun and works. It will be reinstated in the game before the release in some form.

 

 

and please don't get upset with the current state of the map. we also find it hard sometimes to separate testing and playing. We are currently testing and it does affect playing for some players.

 

The problem is the economy,  capturing ships have no sense since they got only 1 dur...   and all this ppl not engaging around are ppl with 4-5 upgrade ships pre patch, or captured that they not wanna lose since they use them in pve.

 

solution:   make that upgrades are   :  grey:1  green 2: blue 3: violet 4  yellow 5 

 

Put the fact that if i capture 3 ship of same kind and or quality i can transform them into 1 with 3 durability  , wich will be less than the 5 made by crafters  but will add a lot of pvp since players will go farm more npc for modules and ships to use.. and replace more easly,        also players should have the ability to sell those 3 dur captured ships into market..........  Right now market prety much not exist i can only resell what npc sell.......as escamotage for buy a ship for a friend... 

 

 

Another issue is how is easy to escape..... i made many pvp and 90% of time even when it happened i got 2-3 mates and we where 4 vs 1, he runned for like 30-40mins.       sails last too much/together with repairs

 

What make soo long get someone that run away ? the dinamic of the fight:

consider that  when you chase someone, usually you can max shoot with your 2-4 cannon in front,  so is hard to slow down someone unless you spawn near to him and you able to shoot a full broad to his sails.

 

90% you end catching him becouse you go 1knot more speed than him and you need 20 mins of chasing for closing up that 300-500 yard of the initial spawn

 

all pvp end or very quick or is incredibly long all based on how you spawn tbh..   Some patch ago also cannons where shooting much longer, now the range even of 42 pounders long cannon is not much... compared to what i was used to see 4 months ago in the battle alpha

 

 

ps: remove the fact that i can see enemy ship type(should be a more general frigate or 2nd rate etc ) and rank expecial if is another nation, i should be able to see it only when i am very near....

Edited by Lord Vicious

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Why is that?

 

If I encounter a player in OW that isn't in a fleet they will always run, even with a bigger ship... I really have no interest in fighting the AI so this is very bothersome to me.

 

Is it because I'm a pirate? Is the Belle Poule just really scary?

Keep grinding. Once you get to bell/pavel/victory/santi you start seeing pvp alot more. Mainly because most of those ships are super slow so people will more often stand a fight to the death then run at first sight...

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We all need to understand that many people are into the meta game. It's not just about PVP or grinding money and XP.

 

Yes, we could have another points system and call it 'honor' - but real honor is subjective and I don't think it's honorable to sacrifice my ship and crew in a fight that I have no reasonable prospect of winning

Tho' I would always fight to support my comrades or if following orders from a higher authority.

 

For me, gold and XP and any future artificial 'honor' system are simply not considerations in the decision to fight or not fight in PVP

 

So please let's acknowledge that people play this great game in different ways

and that that diversity should not be seen as a problem that we need to fix by thinking up more ways to force people into PVP

 

regards

Edited by mouse of war
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The problem is that only a tiny minority of players in any pvp-heavy game are actually interested in a "fair fight".

 

I played Eve Online for some 3 years, participated in many, many PvP battles and the situation in general was:

 

a.) enemy outnumbered us, we ran

b.) we outnumbered enemy, they ran

c.) enemy outnumbered us, they totally destroyed us

d.) we outnumbered the enemy, we totally destroyed them

e.) both sides were about equal in numbers, an interesting fight ensued where better tactics and communication was the key to victory

 

I would say that e.) was the result of maybe 10-20% of all battles I participated in, from small engagements to large fleet battles.

 

 

 

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I think in this game unlike EVE it is possible for a fleet a ship or 2 smaller than the other to tactically and skill level wise win the battle. 

 

Most folks will get into a 3 vs 4 or 4 vs 5 battle because they believe they are better at the game than the opponents. As time goes by and certain captains gain a reputation for being very skilled in battle then I'd like to see the rewards for engaging and attempting to bring them down increasing. Also good XP and Gold for even getting into PvP battles, a level that easily outstrips PvE, even if you lose but do good damage you get rewarded.

 

I like the idea that Booyah had about a dura back on your ship or even 1 dura up to 2 with a cap of 2 dura. 

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is a sandbox you cant force to pvp but you can enforce mechanics that favour pvp.

 

 

making players be able to sell captured ships by making captured ships be able to bring dur at list to 3 will be useful  for many reasons, it will build up player market, it will give more sense to hunt and capture npc, it will allow players to have 3-4 upgrade ships to pvp easy to replace, maybe limit that captured ships will have only maximum green-blue fix upgrades and max dur 3..

 

 

But in general beside economy mechanics that can boost the willingness of the ppl to pvp,  it need to reward ppl, a sort of  pvp money call it captured pennants, flags silver whatever, that you gain when you win pvp and you can spend for upgrades or particular ships (not more powerful simply better looking)  but that you can obtain only that way, so We will see a very cool constitution with particular color scheme or sails we know that the guy is a good pvper.

 

In potbs you where able to get certain particular ships and modules only that way , with the pvp money.. they not where better that regular upgrades, just good quality like our mastercraft , they where diverse and you where able to get them only that way

Edited by Lord Vicious

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is a sandbox you cant force to pvp but you can enforce mechanics that favour pvp.

 

 

making players be able to sell captured ships by making captured ships be able to bring dur at list to 3 will be useful  for many reasons, it will build up player market, it will give more sense to hunt and capture npc, it will allow players to have 3-4 upgrade ships to pvp easy to replace, maybe limit that captured ships will have only maximum green-blue fix upgrades and max dur 3..

 

 

But in general beside economy mechanics that can boost the willingness of the ppl to pvp,  it need to reward ppl, a sort of  pvp money call it captured pennants, flags silver whatever, that you gain when you win pvp and you can spend for upgrades or particular ships (not more powerful simply better looking)  but that you can obtain only that way, so We will see a very cool constitution with particular color scheme or sails we know that the guy is a good pvper.

 

In potbs you where able to get certain particular ships and modules only that way , with the pvp money.. they not where better that regular upgrades, just good quality like our mastercraft , they where diverse and you where able to get them only that way

 

But isn't wanting to 'enforce mechanics that favour PVP' a little authoritarian?

Isn't better to respect the fact that not everyone has your level of enthusiasm for PVP and not try to bend them to your will?

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And when someone don't want PvP and you force him, the fight will be poor quality anyway...

 

I don't care about incentives for PvP, but no nerf PvE rewards in the process.

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But isn't wanting to 'enforce mechanics that favour PVP' a little authoritarian?

Isn't better to respect the fact that not everyone has your level of enthusiasm for PVP and not try to bend them to your will?

 

 

this seams a pvp centric game not my fault he chose the wrong game. 

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this seams a pvp centric game not my fault he chose the wrong game. 

 

Is it a PVP centric game?

 

What about trading, PVE, sailing, exploring? etc. What about people who sometimes want to PvP but sometimes don't? 

 

The good news is that soon you'll be able to use Skirmish mode and there you won't be bothered by people who don't play the game the way you want them to.

Edited by mouse of war
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