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Real World Map, or not??

Real or Fantasy World Map  

28 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see a Real World Map, or a Fantasy World Map?

    • Real World Map
    • Fantasy World Map
    • Europe as Real World Map, but the rest of the map as Fantasy World Map


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This topic is to stir up imagination and respectful debate about having a real-world Map, or a made-up or fantasy Map.  There are Pros and Cons to both sides, and I'd like to see those addressed in forums for the developers to see both sides, and choose the best side for their game.

 

So, let's all shoot for Pros and Cons here.  I'll start by listing a few Pros and Cons so we can get the gist of formality.

 

REAL WORLD MAP PROS AND CONS:

PROS:

  • Historical accuracy of map with respect to the era being paramount to a lot of players
  • Geographical familiarity with regard to where things are at, and where we need to be.
  • Naval battlegrounds of historical significance is relevant to a game like this. 
  • With a real world map, it is easy to note location and directions of real world deep water currents which will make travel times less

CONS:

  • It is VERY difficult to get a map made that can EVENLY distribute power and control of waterways in a real world map setting.
  • The tendency of naval powers would most likely play out, where only few nations would be used as a result of geographical location in relation to resources and water control. (Examples: British, France, and Spain fighting all around the British channel, and the Mediterranean.
  • In a setting like the Carribean, it is historically inaccurate that most nations would have any land there, with the exception of the Dutch, the Brits, the Spanish, and the French.  All others are basically excluded, if historical accuracy is upheld in a real world map setting in the Caribbean.

As a result of my own opinions, I would conclude that, even though I LIKE a historical map, the game power in such a real world map would never be an equal and dynamic one for all nations.  Therefore, I regretfully would have to go with a man-made/fantasy map where land and resources can be divided out fairly and properly among all nations.

 

What do you think??

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Voted for real world...but honestly, the map is the one area where I wouldn't mind the devs exercising their creative talents :) For all the reasons mentioned about, coupled with, fundamentally, the geography doesn't matter. As long as the sailing is good, really good, then players will make the best use of any given coastline whether it represents their own back yard, a real world place they don't know, or somewhere totally made up.

 

Still glad that the first confirmed area is the English Channel though :)

 

Baggy

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I too voted real world, but I don't really mind either way. It would be nice to have this game as historically accurate as possible, but at the same time new shores to discover and colonize would be fascinating. The dev teams could really have fun designing maps, and could even call upon the player base to help out. :)

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What we would mean by a "fantasy" map is = map specifically designed to be balanced, and provide opportunities for interesting and exciting gameplay, varied travel times, and opportunities for discovery and exploration. 

 

If you have played Civilization you will know what i mean. There are real cities and real units, but map is new and fully unknown to new players - making it more exciting especially first 2-3 months.

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I think I would actualy like a hybrid: Europe would be real but the rest of the world could be a ballanced fantasy. So we can have historical important engaments in the channel and maybe the Med too, but the rest of the world is new and exciting; just like it was for captains of the time. Obviously it will all get charted out and put on a wiki somewhere, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, it's what happened to the real world afterall. And the ablility to ballance things as the game needs rather than as the real world was is a huge advantage.

 

I actualy always disliked civilization's naming cities after real cities, I always felt that there should be new names to match the new world. Very minor gripe either way though.

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current open map prototype is exact copy of English Channel

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Europe would be real but the rest of the world could be a ballanced fantasy.

That sounds like a really nice compromise. If the poll was to be changed to include this option I would vote for it.

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The CPU sim I have played allot of that does have the the "real world map" is FSX. I have 300+ flying hours logged in that sim, and have made trans ocean flights and intercontinental flights, were magnetic north changes as you fly, were you have to use GMT time because local time become irrelevant due because your crossing multiple time zones. I normally fly the 747 400 PMDG during these types of crossings in real time with real time weather updates. It takes several hours flying at mach .81. Most people don't have the patience to learn the aircraft or do a long distance flight with that DL plane in FSX. I've done it and found it to be pretty interesting, when I have the time.

 

Now in a 17th century sailing vessel your looking at......well a few months to sail across in real time lol. Let me tell you something those ships may have had a max haul speed of 10 knots +, but much of the time they were going more like 6 or 7 knots. Only in prefect ideal wind they would go 10+. That would be one time consuming game! haha I sure every one knows this........I hope. 

 

So the reality is the earth will have to be scaled down or time compression will need to be added. So I think that "Fantasy Map" or a scaled down real world map would be the best bet with GTA time lol 24 hours in game = around 50 minutes in game....I think..We talked about this before on another thread  

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current open map prototype is exact copy of English Channel

 

Any information you can give us about scale, ports modelled, what area is actually covered, if there's any of the southern North Sea included...? Greedy :)

 

Posted Yesterday, 10:22 PM

Rudi Starnberg, on 29 Jan 2014 - 9:13 PM, said:snapback.png

Europe would be real but the rest of the world could be a ballanced fantasy.

That sounds like a really nice compromise. If the poll was to be changed to include this option I would vote for it. 

 

Seconded. Novel approach that could work really well. I'm looking forward to the confused new-player forum posts already :)

 

 

 

...but much of the time they were going more like 6 or 7 knots....

 

Try 3 or 4kts... ;) Not a quick way to travel by our standards.

 

Baggy

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It needs a new choice, "Real world with new islands in the big empty spaces".    I would like to visit some of the fictional Aubrey/Maturin islands, at least.   But I vote for lots of new undiscovered land to explore.

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There is something wrong with a game thats designed around historical time periods, action, nations, economies, and war should all of a sudden go the opositte direction by creating a fantasy map.

Im hoping the map is more realistic. I really really want to sail the Med. And although parts of the world, like the caribean, I know like the back of my hand, I dont know the Med all that well, nor the Indian Ocean, Autrailia, the orient, or the coasts of Africa and Madagascar.

In the 1750s-1820 Captains werent exploring the world in the blind. Even if they hadnt been there they were familiar with the places nonetheless and had charts as well, albeit, maybe not great ones.

There is plenty of exploring to do even on a historical map.

Throw in Atlantis somewhere and I probably wouldnt gnash my teeth to much but that kinda fantasy should be at a minimum and be closely linked to legends and stories circulating during that period

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I feel that a decent compromise can be found in what Assassin's Creed: Black Flag did. 

 

It was, in essence, a map of the Caribbean; you had your obvious landmasses: Cuba, Jamaica, The western half of Hispanola, and the southern tip of Florida. However, these landmasses and the islands found around them where not exactly as they are in the real world. they are distorted, and island chains offer more variety and are more numerous in some places in the game than in real life.

 

I personally vote for a map that is Historically and geographically accurate to the "T". However I understand the point the "fantasy" voter is coming from, and believe this could be a good middle ground to work from.

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I chose a real world map, I'm sure that there are many people who would like to visit their native countrie's naval cities.

I would feel thrilled with so many different places to discover and chart them!

Although there is the need to reach a compromise on travel time/speed, or both.

Also, it would be easier to model, as the developers don't have to plan and design brand new cities. Just model key features of the cities, such as an important monument for example.

It wouldn't take as long to develop the environment in my opinion.

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Not at all, it takes longer to devlop a real world enviroment than it does a fantasy location, especialy if you are going for historical locations that can't be seen today.

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The Europe real the rest fantasy works for me. Although we are after realism there is only so far you can take it in a game and we need to remember this is a GAME. The European theatre will feel familiar to people and be a good basis to expand out into a fantasy world that is balanced for all ! This is becoming a major problem in most MMO's I have played BALANCE !

 

Make our own history in the New World as it was called back then. We need to remember most of the world to the large majority of people was still unmapped back then (with exceptions I know) so we can remap a new world and have the adventure they had but in a game environment !

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well i think most of the larger areas of the world were mapped sufficiently enough for the years 1750-1800s that this game will simulate. This time period is not really one of exploration unless you are talking about the far away places. Of course, not every island was charted and every bay sounded so there is some room for fantasy I guess but it should be modeled around historical landmasses. Drakes comment above outlines the farthest degree of fantasy that wouldnt disturb me. Added islands in a historical island chain, slighltly distorted landmasses and such. If the map was purely fantasy, with fantasy nations, but historical ships, then I would still probably enjoy the game but it wouldnt make sense to me to mix-match a historical ship like the Constitution with the Kingdom of the Druids. Maybe I'm not an imaginative person. If the game goes fantasy then why not bring back magical skillz and sea monsters?

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Exploration-lite would definitely be possible in America. Sure, the islands would be known already, but the charts might be awful.

 

We could find bays and harbors that others had overlooked, or good beaches for careening ship, or more accessible sources of fresh water. Or we could sound the bottom of remote bays, finding hidden paths through the reefs.

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For me, the 'fantasy' map would better suit my whish for exploration options. However, by 'fantasy' I only mean that the landmasses, island of even continent should be fictional, possibly algorithmically generated.

 

Why fictional landmasses, island and continents? It would help with the feeling of exploring the unknown. You could draw maps of the lands you discover, maybe even sell them to other parties (or keep them secret if you whish). With the real world layout, I've a pretty good idea of what I will find when sailing south down the coast of say the South American continent. I wouldn't know every beach and rivermouth offcourse, but I will always know that I'm 'exploring' the well known shape of Southern America.

 

I would like to prepare my little seaworthy exploration vessel before I set out, make sure I've got enough spars and yards to carry out repairs, take an extra landing boat, buy enough food and ammunution to last me some while. Make a last stop Cork harbour to hire some extra hands and then set out to the west, with only the vaguest idea of what I would encounter there.

 

But, no fantasy in the sense of druids or fairytales, absolutely nothing of that!

 

Cheers,

Brigand

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Both real and fantasy have good arguments. A fictional world would have plenty of secrets for explorers to discover, and making nations equal would be a lot easier, but ultimately the maps and diagrams of this new world will end up on a wiki for all to read up on. A Non-fictional world will make balancing out the nations much more difficult, but it will give a sense of familiarity about the game. Personally familiarity to me is just another word for boring, but there are those who prefer sailing known seas.

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well i think most of the larger areas of the world were mapped sufficiently enough for the years 1750-1800s that this game will simulate. This time period is not really one of exploration unless you are talking about the far away places. Of course, not every island was charted and every bay sounded so there is some room for fantasy I guess but it should be modeled around historical landmasses. Drakes comment above outlines the farthest degree of fantasy that wouldnt disturb me. Added islands in a historical island chain, slighltly distorted landmasses and such. If the map was purely fantasy, with fantasy nations, but historical ships, then I would still probably enjoy the game but it wouldnt make sense to me to mix-match a historical ship like the Constitution with the Kingdom of the Druids. Maybe I'm not an imaginative person. If the game goes fantasy then why not bring back magical skillz and sea monsters?

 

Because this is a game about boats. Therefore it is alright to have ahistorical landmasses in order to have balanced boat gameplay. Fun, balanced boats should always be priority 1, followed closely by historical boats. Everything else is just trim.

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First servers will be with the real maps

Fantasy map might be created for testing purposes

 

issue solved

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