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This game is all about PvP?

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So what has changed suddenly?

All above mentioned statements are true and pvp experience is exactly like that if not harder. . You want black car you get black car.

Someone else will get a yellow car - why is it a concern? We never said it is going to be only pvp.

I guess black cars' owners fear not to have all their car-options if you start making yellow cars.  ;)

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This place is already cliquish and unfriendly -- I can easily see new players wanting to play PVE to get away from the gankers, cliques and folks who insist the game has to be played their way. Why shouldn't a player be able to do that if they want?

Edited by GrapeShot

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Wow how crazy is this getting, the devs are here to bring together a game that people have been looking for, an age of sail game that is somewhat realistic and takes you back in time, some people want to fight and some don't, that simple enough to understand, the devs have the vision and know what they want to make, you can word it how ever you want but at the end of the day its their game to do as they see fit, those who want to play a great age of sail game for either economy or the player vs player action then thats what they will play if for, if having 2 servers caters for both to keep people happy then so be it, for those going crazy about making it as real as possible then lets go as far as saying that if you die on the open sea that characters dead and you have to start again and then save money and order the construction of a ship instead of instantly buying it, meaning you have to wait 2 realistic years just to sail it, sure it would be realistic of the time but would that make us happy, i mean really? come on lets not get carried away!!!!!!

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some people want to fight and some don't,

 

Those who want to fight will have to look for fights then and those who don't will have to look for ways to avoid fights. But splitting communities and servers with all the attached long term problems is not the answer for many of us.

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Those who want to fight will have to look for fights then and those who don't will have to look for ways to avoid fights.

Then just make the merchant ships twice as quick so they can outrun all the others, then they wont have to worry about fighting, crisis avoided, oh no wait thats not fun for the PvPers, i mean have a look at POTBS, they had to do an economy upgrade and implement AI that could sell ships and stuff now because the PvP drove off all the PvE players, so now computers are doing it eco to try keep it alive, there were to many red zones that PvE players would just log off rather then waste their trying to deal with it all thus killing the community, learn from their mistakes for thats a good example, PvP should not dictate to PvE players, its like a bully beating up the non fighter, the bully's gonna have no friends to play with at the end of the day.

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... folks who insist the game has to be played their way. Why shouldn't a player be able to do that (play PVE) if they want?

 

 

... splitting communities and servers with all the attached long term problems is not the answer for many of us.

 

That's exactly what I was talking about. Many of us is not all of us. Not all of the forum posters and certainly not all of the eventual players. People are going to buy the game and play it as they see fit, as they should. If a PVE server is what they are comfortable with who are you to say they can't have one to play on because you don't like that style of play?

Edited by GrapeShot
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There was so much talking about not making this game a COD, it was suppose to be a Sea Dark Souls. And now we get an Easy Difficulty option? I dont remember Difficulty option in Dark Souls and yet people still play it. It's like all those people crying about Invasions in DkS.

 

 

Hey Nornica. Don't twist the facts. You don't remember the difficulty options because there were none. But you definitely remember that you CAN play DS offline and it is still hard especially on naked runs. You could also avoid pvp completely by burning human effigies.

 

 

Those who want to fight will have to look for fights then and those who don't will have to look for ways to avoid fights. But splitting communities and servers with all the attached long term problems is not the answer for many of us.

 

 

By spliting the community and your resources you are shooting yourself in the foot.

 

We made the game because we want to share the great age of sail experience with age of sail fans and aspiting captains. Not only pvp experience.

 

There are a lot of people who hate PvP, not because of ganks or something, just because they hate it in general.

PvP only and PvE only audience is already split and are millions of miles apart. You believe that we will fragment something, but we know we wont. You cant fragment something that was not united and never will be. 

 

We heard your opinion and we respect and understand it. 

If you don't want to respect our opinion better leave the dev forums and come back when the game is done, and count the chickens after they hatched. Or if you don't trust or respect our opinion - why come back even? 

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Then just make the merchant ships twice as quick so they can outrun all the others, then they wont have to worry about fighting

 

Whole wrong premise, borderline demagogic. I get that you said that as an exageration, but the sarcasm helps noone.

What I mean is that there should be ways for a player to plan his trips, knowing wether where he is going to sail towards is player heavy or not. There should be tools for getting escort with ease. Tools for getting your friends to sail with you to protect you .Tools, in sum, that for someone who takes some time to think and plan, and uses some strategy, gives him a very good chance of not having to fight other players thus keeping him safe from that what he hates so much. Meanwhile players who simply don't give a second thought at what they're doing, they will be easy targets. And rightly so.

 

But splitting servers so by default people get what they want without even giving it a 2nd thought is equal to mouthfeeding and is something I'm frontally against. There's just too much of it in the gaming industry to have yet another game designed that way. That on one hand. On the other hand my experience says that split servers built under different premises demand exponentially more effort from the developers and inevitably end up badly in the long run. That's my take on it at least. I'm open for others to disagree with me (the devs clearly do so, just by watching the post avobe mine) and I'm happy to accept that my view of the matter is not the holy grial and maybe is not that good for others. So feel free to state your disagreement with me. But answering with a demagogic modification of what I say and state derating my opinion as a result is going to lead us nowhere. I suggest you to stop doing it :).

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If anything, stick with one server for now. If it doesn't work, then make another server. But if there is no problems with only one, why take all this time to create a solution for a nonexistent problem?

Please, don't waste your time. Only create a PVE server if it is absolutely necessary.

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If there's going to be a fragmenting of players into servers and maybe factions:

Please have some shared elements (the old Sea Trials style skirmish or  even the escort/fleet duty mechanic) to prevent a 'ghost town' impression (akin to what happened on many realms in WoW before battlegrounds where cross-server) and preserving the notion of a single community.

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Whole wrong promise, borderline demagogic. What I mean is that there should be ways for a player to plan his trips, knowing wether where he is going to sail towards is player heavy or not. There should be tools for getting escort with ease. Tools for getting your friends to sail with you to protect you .Tools, in sum, that for someone who takes some time to think and plan, and uses some strategy, gives him a fair chance of not having to fight other players. Meanwhile players who simply don't give a second thought at what they're doing, they will be easy targets. And rightly so.

I was talking from a PvE player perspective, they don't want to have to worry about tactics and strategy, they just wanna haul their goods and build their items, they don't wanna have to waste time getting dragged into engagements or having to avoid players etc.

If they were dragged into engagements then all their progress of hauling their cargo getting taken then is been a waste of a venture and their own time = not fun for that player, buy escorts, then having to organise or wait for friends = more time wasting and yet could still be the same result = not fun for that player, thus having it so a PvE player didn't have to worry about all of this and can do about his business then it would keep him happy, a PvP player playing on a PvP server will still get his fill without bothering non PvPers

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We heard your opinion and we respect and understand it.

 

Don't take me wrong, Admin, I know where you're coming from and I perfectly understand that the issue you're trying to prevent exists and needs to somehow be handled.

That I disagree with the proposed solution doesn't mean I'm suddenly shaking my head and that I'm about to lose hope in the game. I think we know each other very well by now so I know whatever solution is implemented in the long run will be done on solid principles because I have a very deep respect for the way you're building this game.

Said that, I still strongly disagree with the split server idea because of my past experiences, and I think it's not going to be a good solution, leading to some problems in the long run. I sincerely hope I'm wrong here. I also hope that as the game progresses you guys might change your mind about it. If you don't, well, at least I know for sure you have heard our concerns and seriously weighed them. In the end is you guys making this game and making the calls and decisions and that I disagree with some of them doesn't mean I (at least myself) don't respect them ;).

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I was talking from a PvE player perspective, they don't want to have to worry about tactics and strategy, they just wanna haul their goods and build their items, they don't wanna have to waste time getting dragged into engagements or having to avoid players etc.

If they were dragged into engagements then all their progress of hauling their cargo getting taken then is been a waste of a venture and their own time = not fun for that player, buy escorts, then having to organise or wait for friends = more time wasting and yet could still be the same result = not fun for that player, thus having it so a PvE player didn't have to worry about all of this and can do about his business then it would keep him happy, a PvP player playing on a PvP server will still get his fill without bothering non PvPers

 

From a player who doesn't want to engage yes, some time will have to be spent in planning, coordinating convoys, choosing paths, etc. In one hand I think that's fun because there's a challenge in there in taking the correct decisions. On the other hand I don't see it as any waste of time whatsoever. Players doing econ decide the prices in fact, and the more work they put into something, the more rewards they will make because of course, their efforts in dealing with risks (not to mention, the extra profits they'll try to make to cover for possible losses that wouldn't happen without players) will need to be compensated - hence producing much more profit in much less time.

 

Not to mention the existance of player heavy areas wich of course will have high demand of items to cover for the PVP-created losses. yet being dangerous not many traders will dare to go there with their goods. Lots of demand - not that much offer - prices will soar, making an extraordinary chance to make massive profit with smuggling trader setups that would be senseless in a non-pvp environment.

 

More profit=more fun. More areas where risk is high but rewards are insane= Even more fun.

 

That someone doesn't want to be bothered in learning how to fight, or in looking for a battle, doesn't mean they should be entitled to sail out of port, lay a direct course to wherever they're going without giving it a 2nd thought, and be instantly succesful by default. That's my take on it, at least.

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Hey Nornica. Don't twist the facts. You don't remember the difficulty options because there were none. But you definitely remember that you CAN play DS offline and it is still hard especially on naked runs. You could also avoid pvp completely by burning human effigies.

 

Exactly, so maybe a option for PVE players would be an item that will disable any pvp for that player for a week? or two?

Or just a simple "Disable PVP" option in Port, but to activate it back it will take 30 days in game?

And for example traders who sell stuff will get +40% boost cash if they sail to other port with their cargo with PVP on.

Why making another server when there are so many other options to keep all players in one place.

I don't want to end up on a server full of PVP warriors, and all the economy players end in PVE. They are both equaliy important for winning/losing of nation.

Also I know that it is not only traders, but people who simply want to fight bots, let them stay, have ability to fight with bots along with people who have PVP turned on.

Maybe some day those players will think "hmm, lets try that pvp", and I dont care if he bought a Victory or Santisma making cash only in PVE fights. He will buy item or smfn, turn PVP option on, try a fight in some ship he wont be sad to lose one durability. He win/lose, if he like it than he will stay PVP, If not? He will turn PVP off and will have to wait another 2 weeks to try again.

Making such an option also gives a chance for big naval battles, when nation decide to clash and there is announcment that there will be a battle here and here. Everybody set sails, and suddenly 30vs30 people start fighting in one big ass battle like in Sea Trials.

After a battle the PVE'rs can go back, turn PVP off, and go back to their normal job.

I don't care if there will be players sailing around which I wont have an option to attack. Damn I didn't even attack a single person in OW.

More active sailing players = more fun.

 

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Exactly, so maybe a option for PVE players would be an item that will disable any pvp for that player for a week? or two?

Or just a simple "Disable PVP" option in Port, but to activate it back it will take 30 days in game?

 

I'd rather have split servers than sailing in an open sea to find someone sailing his cargo laden big ship into a high risk pvp congested area and be immune because of some "magic" sacrifice.

Ditto with PVP flags. My principle is: If you can see it, you can attack it. If someone can see you, he can attack you. Any solution that breaks that rule IMO should never even be considered for a game built on the principles NA is.

 

No magic, please. No "flags". If you phisically see something in out there in the sea, you should be able to attack it.

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If Game-Labs is striving to make a "realistic Age of Sail experience," why would you make fighting optional? In those times, it was a fact of life. If you were a trader, you ought to be ready to defend yourself. But even so, with the size of this map, you could make plenty of trading runs without getting into a fight. You simply have to know how to avoid it.

What is the point in having a server where you can't fight? That's not a "realistic Age of Sail experience." That's a fantasy world.

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So what has changed suddenly?

All above mentioned statements are true and pvp experience is exactly like that if not harder. . You want black car you get black car.

Someone else will get a yellow car - why is it a concern? We never said it is going to be only pvp.

 

We received a letter recently - an 77 year old player who served in the Navy, and whose ancestors participated in Napoleonic wars.

And he thanked us for making a game of his dream, a game he always wanted, and nobody before made properly. He is just happy sailing and shooting bots in the sea trials.He will be as happy enjoying his long voyages across ocean on a PVE server without being called a bitch/pussy for running. He is just not into that thing. 

 

He read the same message on our website that you read (we suggest everyone to go check it out). You want to tell that guy exactly what?

Anyways. We will make it right. We have not given a reason to doubt it. 

At 50 years, I can appreciate his letter. I have many friends that I game with whom are much older than I. You would be shocked at the numbers of "seasoned" gamers there are.

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I'd rather have split servers than sailing in an open sea to find someone sailing his cargo laden big ship into a high risk pvp congested area and be immune because of some "magic" sacrifice.

Ditto with PVP flags. My principle is: If you can see it, you can attack it. If someone can see you, he can attack you. Any solution that breaks that rule IMO should never even be considered for a game built on the principles NA is.

 

No magic, please. No "flags". If you phisically see something in out there in the sea, you should be able to attack it.

Lol, See it, attack it, PvE don't want that hence its already a split community to the PvPers, so we may as well have 2 different communities so people can do what they want too.

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And yes, indeed, you have never said that you were going to please everybody - up to this point. That is why we supported you because that was proof to us that you have a set vision enshrined in stone and will stick to it. But now with PvE-option happening, that is no longer the case. Now you do go the way to please everyone.

 

 

Unfortunately for you we still are not going to please everyone even if that person is Bismark or whoever else. 

 

Deconstructing your posts we can see this

1) You accused us of breaking non-existent promises, while still failed to show where we have said that the game will only be PvP

2) You put your opinion above other users and forum members forgetting the fact that they also paid for the game and might have different opinion

3) In addition you basically suggest that we have to decline the game to at least 50% of users and send them away - limiting the amount of content we can produce in half to everyone (and that means ships, new features, new maps etc). Yes the number is that high.

4) You continue to push your accusations even when we asked you to look at facts, twice. You still trying to twist the facts by creating the fake story, of us changing the vision

 

We would like to repeat what we have said last year and before. 

If we said something will never happen - it will never happen (slave trading, kraken)

If we said something will happen - it will happen (rattlesnake, rolling broadside)

If we said something might happen - it might happen (pve or hardcore ruleset servers) - we said it before. and we confirm that it might happen. 

 

Gabe Newell said: "One of the things we learned pretty early on is 'Don't ever, ever try to lie to the internet - because they will catch you. They will de-construct your spin. They will remember everything you ever say for eternity" We are extremely careful with what we promise to users - and again - we never promised it is going to be pvp only.

 

You basically have turned the topic "No Pve servers please, here is why" into "Game-Labs lied to us and changed the vision"

Taking all this into account we believe that you are not behaving constructively and if this continues you will join the Indian spammers that were mass banned recently.

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If Game-Labs is striving to make a "realistic Age of Sail experience," why would you make fighting optional? In those times, it was a fact of life. If you were a trader, you ought to be ready to defend yourself. But even so, with the size of this map, you could make plenty of trading runs without getting into a fight. You simply have to know how to avoid it.

What is the point in having a server where you can't fight? That's not a "realistic Age of Sail experience." That's a fantasy world.

 

To be fair, a PvE server would still have fighting.  Players would still be attacked.  It would just be by potentially less competent AI than potentially more deadly players.  Though, to be honest, most of the new AI are better than some players.  Just not as good at harassing you as you flee the battle.

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If Game-Labs is striving to make a "realistic Age of Sail experience," why would you make fighting optional? In those times, it was a fact of life. If you were a trader, you ought to be ready to defend yourself. But even so, with the size of this map, you could make plenty of trading runs without getting into a fight. You simply have to know how to avoid it.

What is the point in having a server where you can't fight? That's not a "realistic Age of Sail experience." That's a fantasy world.

Read my post before about having to wait 2 years for your ship to be built or dying on the open sea requires starting a new character, it would be realistic no???? who's going to enjoy that, put it in perspective its an experience and players with play it to how they want to experience it, some may just want to do the PvE thats how they wanna experience it, PvP want to experience the close fire engagements, why should PvE be dragged into playing PvP when they don't want too play it that way, stop thinking everything needs to be realistic, not everything is going to be that way.

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Read my post before about having to wait 2 years for your ship to be built or dying on the open sea requires starting a new character, it would be realistic no???? who's going to enjoy that, put it in perspective its an experience and players with play it to how they want to experience it, some may just want to do the PvE thats how they wanna experience it, PvP want to experience the close fire engagements, why should PvE be dragged into playing PvP when they don't want too play it that way, stop thinking everything needs to be realistic, not everything is going to be that way.

That is totally beside my point. I'm not one of those people mindlessly chanting "realism." My point is that PVE and PVP players can exist together on one server. Remember, ships are going to be crafted eventually, and someone needs to collect the resources needed for ships. PVP players will NEED the economy-based players. If they want new ships, they must work with the PVE players to attain them. Likewise, PVE players will need PVP players to keep them safe. Why can't we all coexist in one OW?

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Nations' players will need to work together to achieve their goals. PVP and PVE players each provide what the other needs. Why does everyone think that its going to be one big deathmatch with PVP players ganking everything in sight?

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Nations' players will need to work together to achieve their goals. PVP and PVE players each provide what the other needs. Why does everyone think that its going to be one big deathmatch with PVP players ganking everything in sight?

Coz nearly everyone here has played Potbs whit exactly that problem

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That I plan to sail in the servers and actively engage other players in battle and, if I can, sink them, doesn't mean I've decided "it's fun to ruin the experience for them". Sorry but a lot of this trouble starts with abysmal concepts as this. This is a multiplayer game where battles happen and are part of the game. That someone beat you doesn't mean he enjoys "ruining your experience". Means he wants to have success and part of that success of this game will be based on beating other players (the same way there will be other ways to have success in the game that don't involve fighting such as hauling, trading, manufacturing, diplomacy, politics, RvR, etc).

 

And if that particular player didn't want to be engaged, well, up to him to find ways to make hard to happen, right?. If he's got the proper tools to decide wether a sailing run is too risky, and if he has a perfect chance to brings some friends alongside the ride instead of sailing alone, then if he's caught alone by three pirates, and sunk or captured, it's his own fault in the end for sailing in a dangerous area, and because he was sailing alone to begin with. I plan to do a lot of solo hunting in open world and I know that I'd run like hell from a convoy of a couple merchants and 3-4 combat ships, because I can't deal with those numbers. If you wish to NOT to fight, then force those who want to fight you and capture you give up because the risk is too high. Or just don't give them the chance by not sailing into dangerous areas ;).

 

 

But summing up: Stop producing arguments that present people who want to take an active role in fighting as "ruiners of other's fun". I've already sailed in open world. I've sunk others. I've been sunk by others. I've never done the first to ruin anyone's fun, and I still had fun when the second happened. It's part of the game. It's a granted that there are going to be some players whose only objective will be that - extracting pleasure just by making other's experience less fun. But it's a minority, and as big as scumbags those dudes are, you can't extrapolate that into all the rest of players who just enjoy sailing and fighting for the fun of it.

Never said you was one of the ones that like to " ruin others fun" but pretending the problem won't happen in a measurable number does not help. Trolls/gankers/ etc can be a big issue, and it does not take a lot of them to ruin a games reputation. The limited number of durabilities/lives for a ship can contribute to it as well. Just more reason for the gankers to do their thing if appropriate measures are not taken to discourage it.

If players for whatever reason don't want to play the pvp aspect, and it's to much hassle( longer routes, limited play areas) they just might not bother. There are not many game companies who want smaller player bases. So you are limited to a few options.

1.Try and give everyone want they want.

2. Cater to a certain segment and hope it's enough to support the game.

3. Seperates servers.

4. Other?

I want to take an active role in PVP, I already know I won't be getting the big ships or progressing far. I'm just not that good a gamer anymore. But I enjoy trying and I been waiting for a game like this for years, like many others here.

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