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Most likely you won't be able to even talk to an enemy nation or pirates (only on forums)

The rest depends on testing

 

Sorry this is slightly off topic, but could this lead to possibly an officer skill of mastery of languages?  Or an opportunity for belligerent codes to be intercepted in a recent battle and you can 'hear' (read) the enemy's conversations?  As for uneven battles, I'm looking forward to them.  A cutter or privateer can easily out sail a SotL to windward, or a frigate sink a Santisima in an 'uneven' battle.  More glory for the win, less shame if you loose to a vastly superior force.  It's part of the luck of battle.  There could be enemy blockades of your home port, but hopefully a friendly squadron will fight them off or they'll need to return to friendly waters to resupply eventually.

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In potbs ganking was a 2vs1 fight where you had to fight very hard to even have a chance. 2 fast ships could catch anything, demast and kill you. In most cases if 2 players jump you then you are dead. This caused many people to quit the game or quit pvp. It was the easy profit, I myself started as pirate and spent a good amount of time doing it. I could make a million in a day hunting poor people. Tons of loot and marks that could be exchanged kept people in ganking business. 

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Ganking in this game is not possible.  Ship size is not a handicap and there are no other restrictions like "levels".  A surprise could easily sink a Santi if sailed properly and so on and so forth.  The only "ganking" would be groups with several ships hunting lone ships...but that's the reality of naval warfare.  The enemy/pirates wouldn't give you a free pass because you are alone and they are many.

 

People will just need to wear their big boy pants and not whine.  Use your head.  If the enemy has a larger ship, you probably have a faster one.  If you have a slow ship and are outgunned, well thems the breaks.  Perhaps, hire escorts if you're carrying important cargo.  Otherwise, sail wisely.  Don't make yourself a target.  Find opportunities to flee.  Hide in the shallows if you can.

 

Totally agree.  This game, like EVE Online, isn't about levels and newbie zones so traditional ganking isn't really possible.   Once you head out on port your fair game and that is as it should be.  

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I thougt that ganking is when you are on a small ship and trolling a big ship or group of ships by going in fight and go out from the battle or sailing on back side of big ship and trolling him.

That is called griefing. Any kind of trolling behavior is griefing. A single ship tagging a fleet so that fleet can't reach their destination is griefing. Continuing to tag and run is griefing. etc.

 

Ganking is simply tagging an opponent with an advantage in numbers. A close similarity to ganking is "seal-clubbing" in which noobs are attacked but there are no levels in this game. The Captain sailing the cutter may be just as experienced as the attacker sailing the frigate. Neither of which should be banned in this game in my honest opinion. Its war, and the goal is to reduce the enemy whenever you meet at sea. No, one gets a free ride. Reasonable exception would be safe zones in the starting area.

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First off all ganking in mmo s that we know will not be the same in NA,

So a definition of gank in mmo that we played so far (wow,eos,guild wars.. etc.) is when a example > a max lvl player or more of them in a group go to low lvl contested zone and kill low lvl players and then even corpse camp them.

 

In Naval Action that is not possible coz cutter can sink Santi and vice versa depends only of the skill of both captains not the ship you are in.

 

A few friends sailling together in open seas find and pursue (atack) one solo ship of any class that is not ganking.

 

My opinion of gank in NA is when a group of players go to starting area of new players in any country and then blockade that area (port) leaving new players that are probably in (cutter ,Lynks) no real way to fight back or to evade,escape those ships.

But this kind of scenario can be countered by adding hevy shore and off shore defence like (forts on shore or AI patrol ships in that area or even if something like that where to happen then the Admirality of that country can call (order) a real players that are in the navy to come to that spot and fight the intruders.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Well, hopefully in future versions a cutter approaching a Santi will meet a quick and very untimely end.  This aspect of the game is extremely unrealistic and needs mechanics in place to fix it.  In real life, a large should would simply load double shot with a load of grape and reduce the cutter or Lynx to firewood in a single broadside.

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Well, hopefully in future versions a cutter approaching a Santi will meet a quick and very untimely end. This aspect of the game is extremely unrealistic and needs mechanics in place to fix it. In real life, a large should would simply load double shot with a load of grape and reduce the cutter or Lynx to firewood in a single broadside.

I suspect that the inclusion of swivel and musket fire will make it much harder for the little guys to stern camp a santi. I still think it should be "possible" though.

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I think you can stay back there, but you should get mauled in short order.  There's a reason everyone didn't sail around in cutters stern camping things in real life.  ;)

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I think you can stay back there, but you should get mauled in short order.  There's a reason everyone didn't sail around in cutters stern camping things in real life.   ;)

Sir Henry,

This is true all the way i was refering at in game state in sea trials 1 for now one cutter can stern camp 1st rate and even sink it tho its a hard job to do it you have to be good captain and its time consuming with no margin for error for cutter captain but it is duable in current state.

I agree with you that in history that never happen not even close even with a fleet of 3-5 small ships like cutter did not engage first rate if they encounter it at sea they run in other direction. Even in best scenario for those smaller ships they could at best criple first rate but taking her as a prize or sink her it is a mission impossible for smaller ships .

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I'm sorry, but skill should define success in this game.  Not how much you whine on the forums.  I'm confident the devs are intending the former rather than the latter.

 

I have no sympathy for plebs.  :P

i disagree the bst qq should win :)

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I think you can stay back there, but you should get mauled in short order.  There's a reason everyone didn't sail around in cutters stern camping things in real life.   ;)

 

IRL - just the Marines with their muskets would be enough to wipe out all life on a cutter that got close enough to hurt a first rate - stern camping dynamics are very unrealistic in game at the moment.

 

But still FUN ;)

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I honestly hope that the designers decide against disallowing direct communication between belligerents. A good healthy level of banter allows for rivals both personally and empire wide to develop. Now I know that always leads for the door be thrown open for those going overboard in their communications but that's should be dealt with on a case by case basis not as a general ban on everyone.

My personal experience, is that the greatest time period in POTBS was when diplomacy skill was required in order to understand another nation.

Not having area trolling, and instead using emotes, was a golden age of Sail...

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what happen if we have nation fleets guard the newbie areas so that other nation or pirates can't camp just rightout of the port?

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First off all ganking in mmo s that we know will not be the same in NA,

So a definition of gank in mmo that we played so far (wow,eos,guild wars.. etc.) is when a example > a max lvl player or more of them in a group go to low lvl contested zone and kill low lvl players and then even corpse camp them.

 

A few friends sailling together in open seas find and pursue (atack) one solo ship of any class that is not ganking.

But it will be the same or close to the same as Pirates of the Burning Sea, another age of sail game. The definition of "gank" is best taken from a game of the same nature as NA. The players of that game are all over this game so I think it is reasonable to say that this terminology will heavily borrow from experiences in Potbs.

 

So, your few friends sailing together attacking a solo player will be considered ganking. I guarantee it. If that player is a new player or in an under classed ship then you will be seal clubbing. Its simple as that. But like I said, I don't have any problems with either of these styles of play. Don't just brag about how many brigs you've taken out in your Constitution.

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I personally think there should be no rules regarding "ganking." If you sail through enemy infested waters in your brig, you'd better be a damn good captain if you expect to survive. It is simply the reality of the Age of Sail, so why make rules to obstruct historical accuracy? You need to have sound tactics to survive at sea, and players who don't put any planning into it should quickly realize that they won't survive that way. I am all for having no rules in regards to who you can attack (as long as they are an enemy).

The purpose of this thread is to simply discuss what kind of anti-ganking/griefing measures will be in place, and I'm glad to see most players are against it :)

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The problem I had with PotBS was the ruleset for fighting.  You don't make a PvP or RvR game but then put a bunch of rules over how to fight.  It would be easier to just have developed arenas.  That's what killed PotBS for me.  OS fighting was disguised arena fighting.  That's great for "fair" fighting but it ruins everything else.  "I've got two guys.  where are you're two guys?"  "Hey get a six man group so we can fight!"  etc.  In my opinion ad-hoc PvP is more exciting and hunting down targets is also more interesting vs match making arena modes.

 

The other problem I had was these rules allowed players to become "safe".  Yeah, I'll admit I'd killed a few low level people but PotBS allowed low level players (and alts) to carry 1st rate deeds and other high priced items and they did!  Once the rules where changed I watched a Merchant sitting outside the red zone ferrying in his goods with low level alts because I was there.  That's when I gave up on that game... it wasn't a PvP game.  Players just would manipulate the rules to their advantage either for a 2v1 odds or safe passage.

 

I can see the same happening here unfortunately.  The BR idea is to make fight fair based on historical seamanship.  Its a good idea but it doesn't usually hold up in sandbox games.  Personally, I think they should go more the anything goes approach with some honor mechanic.  The more honor points one gets for making the "right" choices the more they are rewarded either in refitting, sailing and fighting bonus, etc.  Low honor (except pirates) means higher refitting costs, sailing and fighting penalties, etc.

Edited by Dharus
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I say let one sided fights go on once in a while.  Just last night, I had a fight that was me in my Trincomalee with an afk Cerebus vs. a yacht and a Constitution.  One of them asked at the beginning how to make it 'fair', and I told them to go ahead and come at me.  Ultimately, the yacht went for the afk ship for the damage points (and got his Santi from it), while I sunk the heavier frigate.  Then the yacht almost sunk me, but I managed to pull out a victory in the end.  It was a great match and all 3 of us had fun, and even though the match (due to the afk player) was completely one sided, I managed to pull an upset.  I doubt I would have if they had worked together on me from the beginning, but it was a lucky break that I managed to take advantage of.  For me, it was more rewarding than winning a 'fair' fight.

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I say let one sided fights go on once in a while.  Just last night, I had a fight that was me in my Trincomalee with an afk Cerebus vs. a yacht and a Constitution.  One of them asked at the beginning how to make it 'fair', and I told them to go ahead and come at me.  Ultimately, the yacht went for the afk ship for the damage points (and got his Santi from it), while I sunk the heavier frigate.  Then the yacht almost sunk me, but I managed to pull out a victory in the end.  It was a great match and all 3 of us had fun, and even though the match (due to the afk player) was completely one sided, I managed to pull an upset.  I doubt I would have if they had worked together on me from the beginning, but it was a lucky break that I managed to take advantage of.  For me, it was more rewarding than winning a 'fair' fight.

 

I've had a lot of fun in matches like this as well, with both outcomes.  You just never know what will happen, and sometimes you can be extremely surprised at the outcome.

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Yeah, if me and my 3 allies are sailing around in a quartet of Leda-Class Frigates, and we come across an enemy in a brig, I'm still gonna attack him. I would expect the same in return. While there is a certain level of respect and honour expected by some players, I really don't see that meaning you should ignore your enemies.

 

I believe Admin has said somewhere that to prevent griefing, a lynx will not be able to attack a Vic, which makes sense. If that is correct, I am curious as to where the line is drawn.

 

Most likely you won't be able to even talk to an enemy nation or pirates (only on forums)
The rest depends on testing

This makes sense, but I think I will miss the nice chats I usually have with the people that are about to kill me...

 

On a related note, I'm slightly curious as to how communication will work in Open World. Will we be able to freely converse and plan with allies 100 miles away? A simple "Oh by the way mister trader, there's a french wolfpack just over the horizon" could, quite unrealistically, allow escapes, avoidance and/or preparations that a potential victim should not have.

 

Note: I'm all for free, open communication for everybody, at the expense of realism.

 

Sorry this is slightly off topic, but could this lead to possibly an officer skill of mastery of languages?  Or an opportunity for belligerent codes to be intercepted in a recent battle and you can 'hear' (read) the enemy's conversations?

I know most americans barely speak English, but I feel British crews could probably manage to decipher american crews chatter ;)

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I know most americans barely speak English, but I feel British crews could probably manage to decipher american crews chatter ;)

 

It would be easy.  Lean well over your taffrail as you're fleeing and you'll definitely be able to decipher the derisive laughter.

 

What I was intending, however, was to 'decipher' enemy signals and be able to hear their team speak and get a hint about their plan of attack if your (or an officer of your ship's) mastery of that language and recently captured code book allowed it.  I'm all for open chat to enhance the ridicule/taunting.  Currently, I enjoy the mostly respectful learning/sharing ideas that result from the sea trial chats.

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It would be easy.  Lean well over your taffrail as you're fleeing and you'll definitely be able to decipher the derisive laughter.

 

What I was intending, however, was to 'decipher' enemy signals and be able to hear their team speak and get a hint about their plan of attack if your (or an officer of your ship's) mastery of that language and recently captured code book allowed it.  I'm all for open chat to enhance the ridicule/taunting.  Currently, I enjoy the mostly respectful learning/sharing ideas that result from the sea trial chats.

I can see it now - Putting points into skill trees, working hard to capture a ships books, getting a bilingual crewmember to translate their messages for you, all to learn that one of your enemies is eating a cheese sandwich and another is really enjoying Daredevil on Netflix ;)

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Sometimes their conversations would be more entertaining than my own team's...I really don't care about Lord Nelson XIII's recent rash.  :unsure:

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I personally think there should be no rules regarding "ganking." If you sail through enemy infested waters in your brig, you'd better be a damn good captain if you expect to survive. It is simply the reality of the Age of Sail, so why make rules to obstruct historical accuracy? You need to have sound tactics to survive at sea, and players who don't put any planning into it should quickly realize that they won't survive that way. I am all for having no rules in regards to who you can attack (as long as they are an enemy).

The purpose of this thread is to simply discuss what kind of anti-ganking/griefing measures will be in place, and I'm glad to see most players are against it :)

 

I completely agree with the desire to have no rules when it involves attacking someone. Magic protections and shields against another player should not be included in the game. It will ruin the immersion and there will be plenty of safe zones where players should be deep enough within their own sea zones. Someone that is brave/stupid enough to penetrate those lines should have to be dealt with either by player cooperation or by a patrol (NPCs) from the nation whose territorial waters are being violated.

 

 

Yeah, if me and my 3 allies are sailing around in a quartet of Leda-Class Frigates, and we come across an enemy in a brig, I'm still gonna attack him. I would expect the same in return. While there is a certain level of respect and honour expected by some players, I really don't see that meaning you should ignore your enemies.

 

I believe Admin has said somewhere that to prevent griefing, a lynx will not be able to attack a Vic, which makes sense. If that is correct, I am curious as to where the line is drawn.

 

This makes sense, but I think I will miss the nice chats I usually have with the people that are about to kill me...

 

On a related note, I'm slightly curious as to how communication will work in Open World. Will we be able to freely converse and plan with allies 100 miles away? A simple "Oh by the way mister trader, there's a french wolfpack just over the horizon" could, quite unrealistically, allow escapes, avoidance and/or preparations that a potential victim should not have.

 

I know that they have stated that they don't want to have a smaller ship pull a larger ship into a PvP instance and while I mostly agree with that in theory in practice it honestly galls me that instead of fixing an issue that they foresee that they are going to take the cheap way out and just put in a magic "can't do that" fix.

 

Make marines capable of firing down upon the decks of cutters, have the possibility of swivel or pivot guns that could be used in conjunction with this to drive away a smaller ship. On top of which you take the possibility of cooperative play out of the equation and why people are choosing to develop games with the mentality of 'remove options of cooperative play' out of games like this just baffles me.

 

If a large enemy ship that isn't maneuverable enough to combat small aggressive ships can't manage to disengage themselves out of a terrible situation then that player brought his or her situation upon themselves and honesty, should we just say "Heaven Forbid that (Player) should be forced to suffer the consequences of their actions". Removing penalties such as these removes opportunities for divergent game, pushing gameplay mechanics that are spawned out of the player base pushing beyond what was intended and removes the opportunities for cooperative gameplay before the situation gets bad (teaming up with a few frigates to ensure that light ships don't have the chance to be a distraction, or after the situation gets bad (Damnit Boys our Santisima is being harassed by the enemy, Rally the Ships and lets go to the rescue!).

 

I think the game is going to be great, don't get me wrong and I'm looking forward to having the opportunity to really get involved with it, but I do think that design decisions are being made that aren't going to be good for the long term survivability of it.

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