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'De Zeven Provinciën' Dutch Warship 1665 (With plans)


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Beautiful ship! Please let add it! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_ship_De_Zeven_Provinci%C3%ABn_(1665) Replica under construction The first 80 guns in the world!

for shitz and giggles (and my own interest in this vessel after visiting the batavia werf) I am modeling her and releasing updates on sketchfab. This ship model is purely for my own interest and

The Seven Provinces was a liner of the Admiralty of the Maze with 80 pieces of artillery, the name of the ship was also written as the 7 Provinces. The vessel had a length of 163 feet, a width of 43 f

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It has 80 guns and is most likely a 2nd rate. 

 

Yeah exactly.  2nd rate is fine, but we already have too many 1st rates and so, so many people keep wanting to push even more 1st rates into a game where they should be about as common as a Titian is in EVE Online.

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It has 80 guns and is most likely a 2nd rate. 

This ship is a third rate, and not a second rate. The thirds rates are from 64 to 80 guns, while the second rates are from more than 80 to 98 guns.

Edited by Captain Jack Aubrey
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This ship is a third rate, and not a second rate. The thirds rates are from 64 to 80 guns, while the second rates are from more than 80 to 98 guns.

.. And then there are different specifications for 1st/2nd and 3rd rates during the period wich Naval Action occupies.

When the 7Provincien was launched she was a 2nd rate. Thus Wind is correct.

If you see her 100 year later she would be a 3rd rate. Despite the fact that noone would want to fight such an old ship.

 

In the end both of you are correct

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This ship is a third rate, and not a second rate. The thirds rates are from 64 to 80 guns, while the second rates are from more than 80 to 98 guns.

Facts

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=MuCZBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA233&lpg=PA233&dq=De+Zeven+Provinci%C3%ABn%22+1665+crew&source=bl&ots=zodWNnXplI&sig=-QQhPJCxjs0w-as99N1Bo91Olbw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jTYlVa-iCdfLsASHyYCoCQ&ved=0CDQQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=De%20Zeven%20Provinci%C3%ABn%22%201665%20crew&f=false

 

It's not always about guns, find out crew number as it count will make it a second rate. In this case you are correct it had 566 crew members and it makes it a 3rd, but some sources point on 743+ crew. If it did have 743 then it will become 2nd rate. 

 

Example:

>>>Dutch 80 Gun Ship of 1665ZEVEN PROVINCIEN - Dutch ... 30 x 42 pdr 30 x 24 pdr 20 x 12 pdr (Also carried 20 smaller guns) Crew 743.

quarters_brn_warship_data.jpg

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Facts

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=MuCZBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA233&lpg=PA233&dq=De+Zeven+Provinci%C3%ABn%22+1665+crew&source=bl&ots=zodWNnXplI&sig=-QQhPJCxjs0w-as99N1Bo91Olbw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jTYlVa-iCdfLsASHyYCoCQ&ved=0CDQQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=De%20Zeven%20Provinci%C3%ABn%22%201665%20crew&f=false

 

It's not always about guns, find out crew number as it count will make it a second rate. In this case you are correct it had 566 crew members and it makes it a 3rd, but some sources point on 743+ crew. If it did have 743 then it will become 2nd rate. 

 

Example:

>>>Dutch 80 Gun Ship of 1665ZEVEN PROVINCIEN - Dutch ... 30 x 42 pdr 30 x 24 pdr 20 x 12 pdr (Also carried 20 smaller guns) Crew 743.

quarters_brn_warship_data.jpg

 

Does it really matter if it is a 2nd or 3rd rate.  She is a fine looking ship, not another 1st rate and Dutch.   I would sail her.

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Facts

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=MuCZBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA233&lpg=PA233&dq=De+Zeven+Provinci%C3%ABn%22+1665+crew&source=bl&ots=zodWNnXplI&sig=-QQhPJCxjs0w-as99N1Bo91Olbw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jTYlVa-iCdfLsASHyYCoCQ&ved=0CDQQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=De%20Zeven%20Provinci%C3%ABn%22%201665%20crew&f=false

 

It's not always about guns, find out crew number as it count will make it a second rate. In this case you are correct it had 566 crew members and it makes it a 3rd, but some sources point on 743+ crew. If it did have 743 then it will become 2nd rate. 

 

Example:

>>>Dutch 80 Gun Ship of 1665ZEVEN PROVINCIEN - Dutch ... 30 x 42 pdr 30 x 24 pdr 20 x 12 pdr (Also carried 20 smaller guns) Crew 743.

quarters_brn_warship_data.jpg

 

 

How do you get the 566 crew figure when the book states 415?

 

 

Though the 415 was 10th december 1665, so possibly that was not its entire fighting complement. 

 

 

 

Edit: I think the later (1694) Zeven Provinciën would suit the game better, unfortunately there is very little known about her and she didn't have an illustrious career like her predecessor did. 

 

The picture of the engraving in the book looks pretty, though. The ship in that seems a little bit straighter, I like that. I'm not a big fan of the old style high afts. 

 

 

There was also a Zeven Provinciën of 74 guns from 1782. That one would be absolutely fantastic to have, but even less is known about that one than about the 1694 version, though it stands to reason she would be quite similar to the 74 gun ship "Vrijheid", also from 1782. The Rijksmuseum has a large model of the Vrijheid so there's more data on that one. Though I've already suggested the 1782 Vrijheid as a good candidate for a later Dutch SoL. 

Edited by SchurkjeBoefje
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all,

 

Naval Action caught my attention on Youtube recently and I am absolutely thrilled to see such a detailed game dedicated to the Age of Sail being developed.

 

Being from the Netherlands, of course I'd like to see a lot of Dutch ships in the game  ;). So I checked the list and saw the ominous omission of  "De Zeven Provinciën" (the Seven Provinces). It was the Flagship of Michiel de Ruyter, a famous Dutch Admiral.

 

Model.jpg

  • 80-gun ship of the line
    • Gundeck: 12 × 36-pounders, 16 × 24-pounders
    • Upper gundeck: 14 × 18-pounders, 12 × 12-pounders
    • Quarterdeck, Forecastle & Poop deck: 26 × 6-pounders
  • Period 1665 - 1694
  • Length: 151 ft (c. 46 m) (gundeck)
    Beam: 40 ft (c. 12 m)
    Depth of hold: 15 ft (c. 4.7 m)

A detailed study of the ship including construction drawings are available at http://www.otteblom.nl/tekeningen/.

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The problem with the17-th century ships is that their armament is rather weak compared to the ships from Napoleonic era (as most of the ships in the game are from that era) Compare these stats:http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=806  and http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=1993 Having almost the same number of guns, Tonnant has twice as much broadsight weight. So " 7 Provinciën" will be completely overpowered by the ships of the same rate. It is a problem that needs to be solved as I don't  know how ships from 17-th century can compete with more modern ones.

Edited by Mighty_Alex
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The problem with the17-th century ships is that their armament is rather weak compared to the ships from Napoleonic era (as most of the ships in the game are from that era

Most of the ships in the pre-alpha game are from Napoleonic era. I don't know whether or not it prefigures the content of the finished product.

I don't think so : "Ship line-up:  16th Century to the end of Napoleonic Wars" (http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11-game-introduction/?p=20)

And I personally hope not because I prefer XVII-th century ships because of... their naval sculptures, their aesthetics.

 

 It is a problem that needs to be solved as I don't  know how ships from 17-th century can compete with more modern ones.

It should be easily solved by a "simple" system of ship class/ranks (with the planned instanced battles), shouldn't it ?

(e.g. 1st Rate XVIIth-century ships vs 2nd or 3rd Rate XIXth-century ships, if ever XIXth-century ships are really that overpowered (of that I don't know)).

Edited by LeBoiteux
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