Kevlarkent Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I wish open world was open world without instances. its not open world if it has instances 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chustler Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 It will be instanced for technical reasons and for reasons of time compression. It will be done in a smart way that will help to minimize the issues raised above. We would all enjoy having no instances, but by all accounts it is not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlarkent Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 It will be instanced for technical reasons and for reasons of time compression. It will be done in a smart way that will help to minimize the issues raised above. We would all enjoy having no instances, but by all accounts it is not going to happen. You mean they can't afford good servers? What do you mean by time compression? What issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 You mean they can't afford good servers? What do you mean by time compression? What issues? Search the forums for the full thread, but the tldr is you can't have a non-instanced massive world while having the complexity of the combat mechanics in naval action, x1000 or 2000 times for each player on the ocean at any given point at any given time. For example, every ball tracked, manual sails, you name it. If you were happy with a point and click game with no depth then sure, it could be done. Also remember that the open sea is compressed so it doesn't take you days or weeks to move around, so having battles take place in slower time with ships in the area travelling at compressed speeds would look odd don't you think.And before you discuss shards or other instance variations please remember you said 'it's not open world if it has instances.' It's been discussed ad nauseum in other threads but the fact that battles will be instances remains and it is going to be that way. It just technically isn't feasible between the team size, technical limitations, engine limitations, you name it. I'd ask you to refrain from making uninformed statements like "can't afford good servers" when that has nothing to do with the situation. There's a reason there are no truely open world games without some hidden instances or tiny maps or being single player. This is 16 million sq km with thousands of players. Not mine craft or skyrim or any other instanced sad excuse for 'open world' where you just happen to be surrounded by impassable mountains, but hey it's 'open' because you can roam around and then do instanced dungeons . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlarkent Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Search the forums for the full thread, but the tldr is you can't have a non-instanced massive world while having the complexity of the combat mechanics in naval action, x1000 or 2000 times for each player on the ocean at any given point at any given time. For example, every ball tracked, manual sails, you name it. Also remember that the open sea is compressed so it doesn't take you days or weeks to move around, so having battles take place in slower time with ships in the area travelling at compressed speeds would look odd don't you think. I'd ask you to refrain from making uninformed statements like "can't afford good servers" when that has nothing to do with the situation. There's a reason there are no truely open world games without some hidden instances or tiny maps or being single player. Then why could ArcheAge do it? So you mean that the world is "real" size but the ships move at extreme speeds? how do you not crash into islands then? ArcheAge again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Then why could ArcheAge do it? So you mean that the world is "real" size but the ships move at extreme speeds? how do you not crash into islands then? ArcheAge again. Where to start... First, and most importantly, archage'a ocean is much much much much smaller. Its 10 minutes east to west and 30 minutes north to south. The combat is also not as intensive, it's a mmo at heart, point, click, lock on, etc etc. As well as having multiple instances per server to restrict the number of ships on said ocean at any one time to a manageable number. Ever wonder why it's not just boats upon boats upon boats as you would expect for servers "full" back near launch? If you are talking about the land part of archage then you need to go read about how servers work, shards, instances and the rest of it. Just ask yourself why there are zones that are connected by small connectors. Oh and the zones are tiny. On a side note, got to love that pop in of players and mobs in AA. Maybe they should "afford better servers?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlarkent Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Where to start... First, and most importantly, archage'a ocean is much much much much smaller. Its 10 minutes east to west and 30 minutes north to south. The combat is also not as intensive, it's a mmo at heart, point, click, lock on, etc etc. As well as having multiple instances per server to restrict the number of ships on said ocean at any one time to a manageable number. Ever wonder why it's not just boats upon boats upon boats as you would expect for servers "full" back near launch? If you are talking about the land part of archage then you need to go read about how servers work, shards, instances and the rest of it. Just ask yourself why there are zones that are connected by small connectors. Oh and the zones are tiny. On a side note, got to love that pop in of players and mobs in AA. Maybe they should "afford better servers?" what about my 2nd question? also i would prefer it that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 what about my 2nd question? also i would prefer it that way The ships don't move at extreme speed, it is accelerated but it's all about perspective. it's not like you are going at warp speed and islands just pop up in front of you with no warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlarkent Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 The ships don't move at extreme speed, it is accelerated but it's all about perspective. it's not like you are going at warp speed and islands just pop up in front of you with no warning. So the map isn't "real" size? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barberouge Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 So the map isn't "real" size? Both the ship/distance scale and the ship speed can be tuned to change the travel times. The open world travel times and distances will begin to be tested when the Sea Trails #2 will be launched. Until then, here are some screenshots: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4225-open-world-beautiful-places/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Q. Are battles in the Open World instanced or do they take place on the map? A. Battles are instanced separately from the Open World Map. This is very bad imo, your own faction cant come and help you if youre being attacked by pirates/other factions. I hope they change this, it might be a dealbreaker for me. This is very good. Your faction who are well outside of the distance they could sail at the speed you're sailing in the combat instance should NOT be able to sail halfway across the map to "come to your aid". If you want help, you'll either need to hire escorts ahead of time, or ensure your mates are within the correct distance from you that they will be pulled into the instance when you're attacked. This old PotBS way of having people able to rush across the map to help (or hinder) someone isn't good gameplay. Instancing will not be changed any time soon. It is completely impossible given current technology to have the world the size that they plan and still perform the physics and damage tracking that they're doing with a high quality combat experience. You just can't do that across 16 million square miles (or more). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlabastarEpic Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Will there be a smuggling mechanic added in for goods etc either now or in the distant future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Will there be a smuggling mechanic added in for goods etc either now or in the distant future? We haven't heard anything, I would suggest you post this in the "Questions to Devs" thread in General Discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlarkent Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 This is very good. Your faction who are well outside of the distance they could sail at the speed you're sailing in the combat instance should NOT be able to sail halfway across the map to "come to your aid". If you want help, you'll either need to hire escorts ahead of time, or ensure your mates are within the correct distance from you that they will be pulled into the instance when you're attacked. This old PotBS way of having people able to rush across the map to help (or hinder) someone isn't good gameplay. That's not what I'm talking about, I mean battles usually last atleast 15min, that's enough time for help to arrive if you're close to some of your allies, but too far for them to reach before you get sucked into the instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austrum Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 The ships don't move at extreme speed, it is accelerated but it's all about perspective. it's not like you are going at warp speed and islands just pop up in front of you with no warning. I think people need to look at PoTBS to get some sort of idea of how accelerated travel will work. Now don't get me wrong, it isn't going to be exactly like PoTBS, but the concept is similar. When your sailing around you will travel faster than the 7-8 knots that a normal sailing vessel would travel in the age of sail. This accelerated rate might by 50 knots or it might be 150 knots but it is not going to be warp travel but rather more like a speedboat traveling on the ocean or at most the pace of a slow plane or helicopter none of which is going to be traveling fast enough to to worry about smacking into an island without warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 So the map isn't "real" size? Maps come in all sorts of "sizes" none of which are "real sized" (1 to 1?). I think what you are trying to ask here is: Will the pixel distances between ports/landmarks/bays etc. SEEM similar to how distances are in real life while we are playing? Answer: We are not sure until we are able to play in Open World and the Dev's have some player interaction to enable them the adjust the "apparent" distances between ports/landmarks/bays etc to whatever level is best for overall game play. My personal feeling is that distances will "seem" to be about 1/4 to 1/8 what they are IRL - but we'll see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 That's not what I'm talking about, I mean battles usually last atleast 15min, that's enough time for help to arrive if you're close to some of your allies, but too far for them to reach before you get sucked into the instance. How far will established by gameplay, but all friendly vessels to the two combatants in a certain radius will end up in the instance. If your friends are nearby enough, they'll be right there with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlarkent Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 How far will established by gameplay, but all friendly vessels to the two combatants in a certain radius will end up in the instance. If your friends are nearby enough, they'll be right there with you. So you have to hope that your friendlies are withing range. It would be much better if you could call out for help and friendlies could come to your help instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 So you have to hope that your friendlies are withing range. It would be much better if you could call out for help and friendlies could come to your help instead. By "much better" do you mean you think it will improve the "realism" of the game, or that you think it would just help you win the battle easier? IRL it was very uncommon for any aid to arrive during a fight between ships, Flotillas or even Fleets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlarkent Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 By "much better" do you mean you think it will improve the "realism" of the game, or that you think it would just help you win the battle easier? IRL it was very uncommon for any aid to arrive during a fight between ships, Flotillas or even Fleets. Both, and I'm not talking about battles between multiple ships. I'm going to be an explorer so I imagine that I will be spending atleast some time alone or in a small grp. Then it would be nice if I could ring my bell so ships that are close by can come and help me if I get jumped by one or multiple ships. That won't be possible with this system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Both, and I'm not talking about battles between multiple ships. I'm going to be an explorer so I imagine that I will be spending atleast some time alone or in a small grp. Then it would be nice if I could ring my bell so ships that are close by can come and help me if I get jumped by one or multiple ships. That won't be possible with this system. You might want to grab a swift ship if you are going to be alone a lot. Have you spent much time in the Brig or the Privateer? If you are in a group and the others can hear your bell - most likely they will be included in the instance with you anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlarkent Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 You might want to grab a swift ship if you are going to be alone a lot. Have you spent much time in the Brig or the Privateer? If you are in a group and the others can hear your bell - most likely they will be included in the instance with you anyway. I have not played the game yet, just bought it today. A bell on the ocean, atleast when its somewhat calm, can be heard for miles upon miles, distances that with "normal speed" would take atleast 20min to travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver H. Perry Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 So you have to hope that your friendlies are withing range. It would be much better if you could call out for help and friendlies could come to your help instead. That is something, that Ampaholic has pointed out, that is completely ahistorical. If you want friends to be able to help you, you need to either have them in range to assist you, or hire an escort. Allowing a mass rush from people far and wide to join a battle doesn't really appeal to me. This both benefits the attacker who is carefully working to hit you at the correct time, and it benefits the attacked who doesn't have to worry about a dozen attackers that were over the horizon piling on against him. I have not played the game yet, just bought it today. A bell on the ocean, atleast when its somewhat calm, can be heard for miles upon miles, distances that with "normal speed" would take atleast 20min to travel. It would have to be dead calm, and if they were out of visual range, especially at the speed it seems that boats travel in the Open World, they'd be hours away, not minutes. The best you could hope for in the real world was to fire a cannon. And even that wouldn't be heard if they were very far off upwind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlarkent Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 That is something, that Ampaholic has pointed out, that is completely ahistorical. If you want friends to be able to help you, you need to either have them in range to assist you, or hire an escort. Allowing a mass rush from people far and wide to join a battle doesn't really appeal to me. This both benefits the attacker who is carefully working to hit you at the correct time, and it benefits the attacked who doesn't have to worry about a dozen attackers that were over the horizon piling on against him. It would have to be dead calm, and if they were out of visual range, especially at the speed it seems that boats travel in the Open World, they'd be hours away, not minutes. The best you could hope for in the real world was to fire a cannon. And even that wouldn't be heard if they were very far off upwind. I didn't mean "far and wide" just not only in ur immediate surrounding. A cannon would be heard from atleast an hour away at "real speeds", dunno how long that would be in "open world speed". Have u spent any time on the sea in real life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) I have not played the game yet, just bought it today. A bell on the ocean, atleast when its somewhat calm, can be heard for miles upon miles, distances that with "normal speed" would take atleast 20min to travel. First: Welcome to the addiction. Second: As much as we would all love for this game to "perfectly" emulate real life - some aspects are necessarily artificial and either compressed or abbreviated - sadly, some are even absent - such as the sight and sound of gulls pooping all over the deck. Also I don't think the bells can be heard even a mile away - in game. Edited April 8, 2015 by ampaholic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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