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Open world prototype - Rules of engagement, ship loss and spawning.

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Prototype ship loss mechanics. 

 

Constraints

  • To reduce inflation ships have to be taken out from the economy.
  • We have to reduce time loss for the player for refitting and combat re-entry to an acceptable minimum.
  • We have to provide demand for crafted ships
  • To provide a feeling of loss and some adrenaline losing ship will still have to be costly

The player who have decided to spend an evening fighting should be able to do it without major tedious interruptions. 

Judging by the average length of battles in the sea trials - 2 hours will provide approximately 5 battles in the combat zone. 

 

Decisions we made:

 

Ship loss mechanics

  • Every new ship has 5 durabilities. Ship is lost forever after durabilities end. This will be enough to spend 2 hours in uninterrupted fighting if you constantly lose your ship in combat.
  • Modules and upgrades are only lost with final loss of the ship - no more stupid trips to port to refit
  • Captured ships always have 1 durability
  • Captured ships lose one of hidden abilities, or upgrade slots or officer slots on capture. After multiple captures ships will become a basic grey ship without upgrade slots or officer slots
  • Premium ships cannot be lost - and it is possible to capture them, but they will be useless in combat after capture (no slots for officers or upgrades)

Capturing ships

 

You can capture everything you see and like (if you can of course).

 

You can exit the battle with only one of the ship (ninja capture and run). The ship left in battle will be a free for all derelict (white flagged ship). You cannot exit the battle with 2-3 captured ships.

UNLESS

  • Derelict (surrendered or captured hull) survived till the end of the battle.
  • You stayed until the end of the battle (did not run)
  • Your side was victorious

Who owns the surrendered or captured ship

  • Friendly ships cannot take command of the white flagged ship unless you unlock it as free for all
  • Enemy ships can recapture or destroy the white flag ship if they want to
  • Surrendered ship is assigned to the person who dealt maximum damage
  • Boarded ship is assigned to the winner of boarding combat

After battle has ended and you own a surrendered hull you can send it to port if you have free docks

 

Repairs

  • After you lost the durability (but have not lost the ship yet) you have to repair it. It is usually expensive and could amount up to the full cost of the ship. 
  • Surrendered ships are cheaper to repair
  • Open sea repair is possible - and consumes a repair kit consisting of timber, ropes and sails. If you don't have those repair kits - you will sail damaged or can repair at port. 
  • Repairs in open sea will be instant - but will have a cool down on use. If you are heavily damaged it might take some time. 

Spawning

  • After losing a ship player spawns in the nearest friendly, neutral or free port whichever is closer
  • Free ports are created in across the map to provide a spawn point if you die far away from your home bases
  • Controlling a friendly port near a zone of operations becomes crucial in large scale operations planning 

.....

 

Rules of engagement

 

Rules of engagement existed in the age of sail (like frigates not firing at line ships and vice versa) and some of those will be implemented in Naval Action. But we are doing it for different reasons.

 

Rules of engagement are absolutely necessary for anti-trolling. We want a sandbox feel but we want to protect the players from idiots who have nothing to do, but to troll others. 

  • Instance creation: Attacking a British ship in a French ship will bring all nearby ships of those nations into the instance. Attacking a british unarmed trader when 2 first rates NPC are in the area will bring them into instance. This will eliminate group splitting. No more cherry picking.
  • Trolling protection: Lone Lynx will not be able to troll a First rate by constantly attacking and running away. If the difference in Battle Rating (BR) at the start of the instance is too high the higher BR side can refuse combat and exit.
  • Attacking a friendly or a neutral is possible, but will make you a pirate. You can only do it once.

Additional rules might be added in the future as we go. We have a very flexible system to be able to cover most scenarios if we and players decide. 

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I like the sound of this.

 

Not having to refit ships in particular is good, was something of a pain in PotBS  :)

 

Will comment more later.

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ok for me, i will have to think about how to troll your system to make you bc about that but atm i don't see how troll it

 

Battles are instanced because of that without rules of engagement light ship can constantly keep a lonely first rate or a fleet in battles. Attacking them whole evening. This was very common in POTBS, and was annoying as hell.

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That looks good.

One concern still stays:

What if a Trincomalee decides to troll others? (Trinco bc shes the fastes ship atm)

He attacks you and runs away..

Will there be some sort of battle report and when he is continuesly doing no or very minor damage a few times in a row.. Is he then still allowed to attack players?

 

Lynxes not bein allowed to attack 1st rates sounds good. But "assholes" will always find a way to piss regular players off..

 

 

another thing:

Does the BR system prevent us from attacking big NPCs, too?

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Sounds interesting.

Bungee brings up a good point about the Trinc. ^^ 
Looking forward to the first test's! - Then i might be able to have some sort of valid opinion on any of this ^^ 

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Battles are instanced because of that without rules of engagement light ship can constantly keep a lonely first rate or a fleet in battles. Attacking them whole evening. This was very common in POTBS, and was annoying as hell.

Splitting was awfull in potbs

Ganking was not really good too.

 

About how to troll your system:

I got a fleet of 5 trinco. I want to attack a first rate. How to engage the battle if BR between trinco and first rate make him allow to refuse the battle? Can we group together to improve the BR on our group to make the 1th attackable?

If so, how to remove the ability for 15 privateer to kite people?

How to resolve the kit ability of the trinco that can have long gun and get the best speed? Give me 2 trinco and i can sunk a victory or at least dismat him easly...

 

Solution:

When IA see there is friendly around, each ship of the fleet get a +1 BR. Not +1 per ship but all ship get +1 or +2 depend on the BR

It will allow groups of privaters to attack bigger  ships that what they could attack in normal way but avoid them to attack large ships.

In the same way if trinco can attack bellona in normal way, trinco and more will be able to attack Bellona+1br=victory (for example)

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''Captured ships lose one of hidden abilities, or upgrade slots or officer slots on capture. After multiple captures ships will become a basic grey ship without upgrade slots or officer slots.''

Can you explain this, as in who would want to sail an obsolete and gimped ship? It sounds like an attempt to make crafted ships the only viable solution for anyone who wants to stay competetive.

In potbs it was possible to play the game without doing any craft/eco at all at certain skill level, why would you take away that option from those who are able and force them into pve/eco?

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In potbs, all was based on the crafted ships and players playing with derelicts ships were not able to do many things are their ships were crapy...

Capping an end-game ship like herc MC from another player was much more fun and rewarding than going the carebear route and ''crafting'' it from hours spent in eco or buying it from market. And it didn't have any reduced qualities....I don't know maybe you only capped from NPC's and yes these were always lower quality and waste of time.

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What is a "premium" ship, and how are they acquired? I really don't like the idea of ships that cannot be lost, it takes away any feeling of caution in open world. People will be able to risk their ship without worry.

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What is a "premium" ship, and how are they acquired? I really don't like the idea of ships that cannot be lost, it takes away any feeling of caution in open world. People will be able to risk their ship without worry.

The yacht is a premium ship we all got for preordering the game.

How other prem ships are going to be obtained..? buying them for RL money most likely.

 

I like the idea of capped ships loosing a special feature. Its a good way to reward economy players. Pirating ships should only be a secondary way to obtain ships. I mean: one player worked really hard for his vessel and now some progamer is going to wreck him and steal his ship.

Its a very good way to motivate economy instead of "pirating" enemy ships.

You still can go cheap and capture enemy ships. But if you want to have the edge over your opponent.. Build your own ship or buy if off some traders.

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The biggest question is: will there be an option to make captured ships upgrade-able to normal / premium level? For example: I captured a ship, it has 1 dura. and -1 slot for officers etc. but I can go to the game store and purchase an upgrade blueprint that will give me more duras and will open up slots. Or I can sail around and find exactly the same ship, attack it and scuttle for a chance to get extra dura blueprint.  Yes or no? :)

 

In store items suggestions:

 

---Restore one dura on captured ship

---Restore all duras on captured ship

---Restore one officer slot

---Restore all officer slots

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Thanks for the clarification. I think the last thing we need is for this game to turn into a "pay to win." We will quickly see players willing to spend more money buying the best ships, and everyone else will either give in or quit. There shouldn't be any premium ships in a paid game, leave that to the "free to play" games like Wartgunder and WoT. I played Warthunder for a while, and then quit because of how pointless it was to play against the premium special ability super plane players. We don't need that here.

Edited by Jeremiah O'Brien

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The yacht is a premium ship we all got for preordering the game.

How other prem ships are going to be obtained..? buying them for RL money most likely.

 

I like the idea of capped ships loosing a special feature. Its a good way to reward economy players. Pirating ships should only be a secondary way to obtain ships. I mean: one player worked really hard for his vessel and now some progamer is going to wreck him and steal his ship.

Its a very good way to motivate economy instead of "pirating" enemy ships.

You still can go cheap and capture enemy ships. But if you want to have the edge over your opponent.. Build your own ship or buy if off some traders.

And the PvP player didn't work at all to obtain needed skill level to consistently supply himself ships from victims? He was pro since he was born into this world?

But okay, let's punish skill and keep ecobears safe and let's make everyone grind the same way like a big happy family.

Peace & Love.

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  • Premium ships cannot be lost - and it is possible to capture them, but they will be useless in combat after capture (no slots for officers or upgrades)

How will this work? 

 

Can't loose ship , but still can be captured? So, it means, I can capture useless clone for my pvp collection that will sit in the dry dock? Player who lost the battle and a premium ship (copy) will still have the same ship. Am I correct? 

 

In this case offer 'restore to battle state' blueprint in store, so all captured premium useless ships can be rebuilt into a regular (not premium) battle ready ship with officer slots and can loose duras. 

 

This could mean, if a player fought well and captured a nice premium ship (copy), he must go to the game store and purchase unlock in order to make that premium (copy) battle worthy (convert it into a regular ship that can loose duras) and be able to use it in any other battle. 

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So, in theory, I can take my premium ship, go to ridiculous risks without any need for caution, and continually capture other players ships in my 'immortal' ship.

I guess we will be seeing a lot of unskilled players buying the best ships and making it miserable for those of us who actually want to succeed in open world through skill. This will be more than enough of a reason for me to leave this game.

Edited by Jeremiah O'Brien
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So, in theory, I can take my premium ship, go to ridiculous risks without any need for caution, and continually capture other players ships in my 'immortal' ship.

I guess we will be seeing a lot of unskilled players buying the best ships and making it miserable for those of us who actually want to succeed in open world through skill.

You could get penalized or set on timer after every capture. (ex. Next ship capture available in 5.00.00 hours). This is the easy fix. You can still sink ships, but not capture because it takes time to send your original ship back home and get permission to capture the new one. Also, add an option where you can still capture a ship, but loose a huge amount of reputation, for those people who are willing to risk it in order to get a ship they were looking for. 

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Okay, more detailed comments.

 

Definitely the concept of short turnaround between fights is good. In PotBS after a group fight you'd have someone spawning halfway up the map, people needing fittings, carpenters on 30min cooldown, etc, etc. When you've got people playing for 1-2 hours in an evening that isn't good, they'd be lucky to have 2 fights in that time.

 

But I don't like the dura concept. For a start you have this problem when you capture someone's ship and then run into them straight after still sailing the exact same ship. So you didn't take their ship, just one of its lives, where is the impact and feeling of victory?

 

Instead, what if ships have 1 life only, but when you buy a new ship it comes with ammo/repairs/provisions, you only need to take command with your captain/crew and sail out to sea? If you want to customize the ship, change the cannon or paint etc then of course you still have to go into the dockyard, but otherwise the ship ready to fight immediately, no delay in getting back into the action.

 

This preserves the feeling that all ships are unique and valuable, but at the same time keeps the short turnaround between fights.

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And the PvP player didn't work at all to obtain needed skill level to consistently supply himself ships from victims? He was pro since he was born into this world?

But okay, let's punish skill and keep ecobears safe and let's make everyone grind the same way like a big happy family.

Peace & Love.

To make this clear:

You answer on the assumption that we can only capture CRAP. But that is not the case. (in fact we know NOTHING about modules at this stage)

It only means that several ships of the same class differ in "hidden" stats (we see those stats only our opponent dont).

Its not like we capture a ship wich has 10 guns less or wich' armor is 50% worse than the original.

 

Basically you have the desired ship. Wich maybe used to have 3 hidden bonuses. Now it only has two bonuses.That is not going to stop you from beeing an awesome PvP captain in a shiny new ship (for wich you directly payed no money at all).

In potbs there were the elite PvP socs wich dominated the whole map. And rageboarders just went ahead and boarded nat. ships with next to no risk at all. New players had a very hard time learning pvp. And so many were afraid of loosing their ships. Either to pirates or sinking.

That reluctance to take risks didnt help the overall pvp endgame.

 

I think Gamelabs is very wisely trying to make PvP a lot more attractive. To involve econ players in the whole.

 

So basically, I can take my premium ship, go to ridiculous risks without any need for caution, and continually capture other players ships in my 'immortal' ship.

That is a very important point you make.

Maybe prem ships are somewhat restricted in their use.

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You could get penalized or set on timer after every capture. (ex. Next ship capture available in 5.00.00 hours).

That's beside the point. It's the fact that those who choose to pay more money will have an innate and unmatched advantage over everyone else.

That is a very important point you make.

Maybe prem ships are somewhat restricted in their use.

They shouldn't be restricted, they should be nonexistent.

Edited by Jeremiah O'Brien
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"You will get penalized or set on timer after every capture. (ex. Next ship capture available in 5.00.00 hours)"

That's beside the point. It's the fact that those who choose to pay more money will have an innate and unmatched advantage over everyone else.

"Maybe prem ships are somewhat restricted in their use."

They shouldn't be restricted, they should be nonexistent.

 

Why? Premium Player still looses and winner will get the reward. Premium player will keep that expensive ship and be happy. Regular player who won, can capture prem ship copy, and hopefully will be able to upgrade it. Premium player payed for that ship, regular player did not, but still can upgrade it if they purchase the blueprint. I like it. It does not mean every player will buy , 1st rate at lvl 1 skill. It does not mean every premium player will be a pro. Premium ships do not have any advantages in fight and still do the same damage and sail the same way as regular ships. Admin please confirm this. 

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What about:

I got a 5dura trinco and i can capture a belonna. I cap the bellona and let my trinco as a derelecit. So basicly i got a 1 dura bellona and i leave the battle.

My team win but a teamate in privater capture my trinco to win. What about me? I get back my 5dura trinco? I get back a 4dura trinco? I get not back any trinco?

 

What about:

In a 6v6, we destroy all opponen but we loose 3 mates into the battle. As written, they are tp to the nears friendly port. We are now 3 in the middle of the see wit many ennemy ships around. My teamates are on the port. Baslcly we are splitted and lead to death.

 

What about:

I sunk an ennemy ship. I'm supposed to get his cargo. Could i get his repair kit or are repair kit not capturable? If they are capturable it means you can use them just if you win and srive the battle. If no, you're going to loose them anyway...

 

What about:

you said, 2 hours is 5 battle and you don't want people to be out of battle for long time. In same way, you say repair have to be expensive. If a ship is lost and sunk, should i repair it or is it new and already full repair? (i think it's full repaird but not sure).

You said surrender ships are cheaper to repair but when i surrender i loose a dura so why should I repair it?

 

What about:

I can capture 2 or 3 ship in  a battle with conditions. Are this ships control by npc to join the nearest port or are they tp in my dock?

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Why? Premium Player still looses and winner will get the reward. Premium player will keep that expensive ship and be happy. Regular player who won, can capture prem ship copy, and hopefully will be able to upgrade it. Premium player payed for that ship, regular player did not, but still can upgrade it if they purchase the blueprint. I like it. It does not mean every player will buy , 1st rate at lvl 1 skill. It does not mean every premium player will be a pro. Premium ships do not have any advantages in fight and still do the same damage and sail the same way as regular ships. Admin please confirm this.

If premium ships don't have an advantage, why would anyone buy them? And you say, "hopefully will be able to upgrade it. Hopefully. As of right now, you can't, and captured premium ships will be useless.

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