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Crankey

Open World options for ships sinking in battle

Sinking ships or Hulks and Repair  

117 members have voted

  1. 1. What would you prefer to happen to your badly damaged Ship

    • Sinks like it does in testing
      25
    • Survival mode does enough to keep ship afloat (barely)
      15
    • Strike Colours and survival mode does enough to keep you afloat
      55
    • Strike Colours and survival mini game, managing your repair crews
      26
    • Turns into a floating hulk at the point of sinking. You can no longer control your ship but it remains afloat for end of battle options
      14
    • 3rd party assistance to keep your ship afloat but no further combat this battle
      27
    • 3rd party assistance to return to combat ability within same battle
      9
    • Prize crews from any ship can capture your Struck ship
      37
    • Prize crews from comparable or higher rated ship can capture your ship
      13
    • Your ship is assisted to port by friendly battle win, or auto captured by enemy battle win
      37
    • Returned to port or captured on the roll of a dice
      1
    • Something different I will post below
      3


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Personally I feel that the current system of your ship automatically sinking during a battle is not very historical. If you could no longer fight your ship and keep her afloat, you would lower your colours and all crew members would turn to save the ship and their lives. (Striking)

If you were able to save your ship, you then had options depending on the local activity. Taken by a prize crew and captured, await end of the battle for friendly assistance, limp off of the battlefield and make course for a friendly port, Raise your ensign and renew hostilities etc. All of these occurred historically, what didn't occurr was that all vanquished ships sink, in fact very few did within the timescale of a battle.

 

Exchange of captured crewmen follwing battle arranged by admiralty authorities etc.

 

There have been other posts on the subject, there have I believe been some poll's in the past and without belittling any previous posts, I think we have a much larger forum population now and many many more players who could provide input.

 

Multiple choice, you may tick as many options as you feel could be viable

Edited by Crankey
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Why create a useless topic, if coming damage model 4.0

 

A damage Model does not tell you what happens to your ship apart from receiving damage.

 

This Poll is about alternatives instead of every vanquished ship sinking.

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Why thanku

 

Good post!

 

Why Thankyou Admiral :)

 

Already a lot of activity on the Poll. Dare I say there are already a few options trending much higher than others.

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In my opinion, the best option would be a combination of "Strike Colours and survival mini game, managing your repair crews" and "Prize crews from any ship can capture your Struck ship". The first one would give us only a very little chance of sinking, while the second one would allow the ship to be captured at any moment after stiking colours. Ofcourse, if someone intentionally lets his ship sink to avoid capture that captain must take a penalty after the battle. Multiple captures and recaptures of the same ship should be allowed during battle and even a very little chance to recapture after the battle (like a 10% chance dice roll), as after many battles, crews managed to recapture their ships.

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I love the idea. There is a small data element missing, which I doubt you have, and that is how ship capture will work & what it means.

In this, I have a concern with less ships sinking: will People amass ships too easily via post battle capture?

Otherwise, I quite like the idea of disabled ships and various options & outcomes.

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To clarify, I would implement many of them and have it so that sometimes you can strike colors and that's enough, and other times you strike & then also must do mini game... Etc.

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I would implement such a system as follows:

 

Upon taking fatal critical damage the ship makes a percentage roll chance to enter either a sink, hulk, towable salvage, or capturable state.

 

Percentage chance is based off of total number of critical leaks amassed, where the critical leaks are located on the hull (ie: critical area below water line, above water line, bow, stern, etc.) and what type of sea state is in play in the area at the time of the battle. (ie: calm seas, rough seas, etc.)

 

Rolls would be determined/calculated at the end of the battle instance and would allow the winning team of the battle to choose what they want to do with the resulting state of the ship that they defeated. The critically damaged ship (read loot) would be assigned to the player that did the most total damage to the ship if more than one enemy did damage to the ship during battle.

 

Also a seperate roll would be assigned to the captain of the critically damaged ship based upon his actions and crew skills during the battle. (ie: if he chose to abandon ship before the ship actually reached critical state he has a greater chance to have a lower chance of crew lost at sea state or captured state.) ((giving the captain a greater chance to save crew members that he has spent time training)).

 

Other states for the loser after battle could be as follows:

 

Crew and Captain aboard lifeboats. (The captain would have to navigate to the nearest port as crew attrition and chance of mutiny would be at an extremely high rate given the lack of supplies aboard a life boat.)

 

Crew and Captain aboard damaged ship. (The losing captain manages to save his ship in a severly damaged state but must sail it to the nearest port as crew attrition and chance of mutiny is at a high rate, though not as high of a rate as the lifeboat state.)

 

And so on. There could be many different and interesting Win and Loss states that can be effected by player actions and use of in game skills (whether by captain skills or crew skills) that could be implemented. You could even have certain skills that are only available to certain factions, such as a high loot chance state for players who belong to a pirate faction, or an higher roll chance to capture the enemy ship for a captain that belongs to a privateer faction etc.

 

That would be the system I would implement as that would be interesting and would be something to add another element and reason behind having a battle with another player other than just if you win or lose. There would be something at stake for both the winner of the battle as well as the loser and would make if much more interesting than say, having a loading screen and suddenly your magically back at your closest friendly dock upon the loss of a battle.

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I love the idea. There is a small data element missing, which I doubt you have, and that is how ship capture will work & what it means.

In this, I have a concern with less ships sinking: will People amass ships too easily via post battle capture?

Otherwise, I quite like the idea of disabled ships and various options & outcomes.

 

 

Technically, if it is a navy character it wouldn't be their ship's but the nation's ship and they get prize money out of it.

 

Also, if it is a privateer it shouldn't be their ship but they get prize money, because a certain amount still has to go to the crew.  If the player wants to buy the ship, I think that is fine, but they would have to pay for the crew and officer portion of the prize money to get the ship.

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Historically, a privateer would bring the prize back and the goods and ship are auctioned off (after the Court of Admiralty makes the determination that the capture was within the letter of Marque).

I suppose, if capture will work as such,that will work.

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Privateers/letter of marque were funded by business men as a risk venture. The captain may or may not have a % interest above his prize share. potentially he could decide to pay full price less his own share for a prize on safely returning it to port.

 

Naval Officers would deliver a prize to the prize court. the court would decide whether to buy in or salvage/break up a prize. Its value was based on its cargo, its prisoner head count and its resale/worth value. Prize money was specifically split up among crew, warrant officers, lieutenants, Captain, other naval ships in sight during the action, commanding officer in sight, commander in chief of the fleet (Wherever he happened to be) specific % were known and prizes shared out once a ship went through the prize court (Was condemned).

Edited by Crankey

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Ok. Sounds good. That was my concern, that ships could easily be amassed via capture. However, if game mechanics follow a "pieces of eight" or financial system for capture, then I have no concern :)

Great ideas on ship incapacitating.

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I think this is a great topic, however we need to address ....

 

Does a ship get repaired?

Is it auto repaired with or without paying for it?

Is the penalty a time penalty for being sunk (you can't sail that ship for x amount of minutes/hours depending on last time you were sunk)?

Do you limp back to port and only pay the damaged parts?

Is there no repair bill, you have to buy the items off the market to repair her yourself?

 

-Cannonball

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I think this is a great topic, however we need to address ....

 

Does a ship get repaired?

Is it auto repaired with or without paying for it?

Is the penalty a time penalty for being sunk (you can't sail that ship for x amount of minutes/hours depending on last time you were sunk)?

Do you limp back to port and only pay the damaged parts?

Is there no repair bill, you have to buy the items off the market to repair her yourself?

 

-Cannonball

 

I think a ship would need to be towed and or otherwise repaired sufficiently to make it safely to port. If the ship made it to port and was 'condemned for sale' by a prize court, its condition would influence its value.

 

There are already posts about some ships stores being available onboard ship that can be used to make some repair while at sea (If they are practical), and I am guessing these would have a cost associated. If there were spare materials available from one ship outside of the battle situation they could be utilised to carry out urgent repairs before taking the prize ship to port.

 

Either way I would hope the cost of repairs and the value of the prize ship depending on its condition would all make economical sense.

Edited by Crankey

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Just to add a couple of points on this. Often sufficient repairs could be done at sea in order to bring the prize home (absent a storm as at Trafalgar). Often a ship would strike while still in relatively good condition and the crew struck because the captain was killed or the odds were overwhelming. Another example would be if a ship is dismasted, the crew might strike, but with a jury rig set up after the battle could sail home or away by the victors. Either way you should be able to send aboard a prize crew to capture that ship. Auto capture I am not so sure about. One of the French ships at the Battle of Lissa had struck but then saw an opportunity to escape when a prize crew did not come aboard. That type of action may have other consequences in the OW though! (Captain Hoste was so mad he sailed to the enemy port and demanded the ship be handed over!  Lastly a ship may well be so battered that she won't make it back to port - ie; HMS Java

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As someone that basically sees this as "something that makes sense according to the laws of physics as I understand them" and "fantasy, carebear nonsense," the sheer volume of "options" feels like it heavily slants this poll.

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As someone that basically sees this as "something that makes sense according to the laws of physics as I understand them" and "fantasy, carebear nonsense," the sheer volume of "options" feels like it heavily slants this poll.

 

English please ? :)  Players vote on the option/s they think would be best for the game in their opinion.

 

Are you saying the number of options available to vote on are not comprehensive enough ?, if so please clarify and I will add additional sensible options.

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The options in the poll are more realistic than the current mechanics.

Ships didn't sink as often. And post surrender, there was always work to be done to ensure that.

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Another factor considering the link to the meta game is the cargo at the time of battle. eg flammable cargo would influence what happens when a ship get hit as would taking a load of timber as it would tend to make the vessel very unlikely to sink. lol assuming the novel is accurate there is even stuff like a cargo of rice swelling when the ship leaks and opening the seams making it sink quicker. Definitely however the current battle sinking is not very accurate and it would be better for the ship to strike and remain an obstacle to navigation during the battle if it took enough damage to make keeping afloat the crews priority. It's probably mentioned elsewhere in another thread but I figure crew casualties and morale is also another trigger to cause a ship to strike. (thinking mainly NPC ships here)

Edited by Stonehouse

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I do not particularly like the idea of ships being unable to sink because of surrendering. 

Also, why make it so complicated?

If one sinks a ship, one should get a monetary and/or a resoursce reward based on ship cost and cargo.

If one manages to win a boarding action, then one gets to send a crew aboard to take the ship back to port for a reward of either the ship itself or money and/or resources.

If one is the ship that is sunk or dies in a boarding action, then one goes back to the nearest harbor where some yet to be known condition is met for that to be a harbor one goes back to.  Why deal with being taken prisoner at all?

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