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Coming from WOT I am happy to be part of a community where such behavior is not going to be condoned.

I play to have fun and I hope to find people who help me to be a better player.

After reading this forum I really hope that Admins will find a way to stop people to harass other players and distrupting such a beautiful game.

Edited by Antonio_Pigafetta
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There is this curious attitude on the internet, especially pronounced in gaming, that rude and toxic behaviour is just to be accepted, because "there is nothing you can do about it". The problem with

One striking example of this is how many people dismiss tribunal threads so quickly over "bad language."  The argument is "so he said a bad word, get over it."  Certainly, profanity is no issue, but i

That's the reaction we were looking after. Its everyone's responsibility to mold the community to the right shape to be able to feel at home here. It is not only to moderators - we don't have in house

Well as I am not a native speaker I only just researched "prevail" and yes you are right.

It 'should' prevail.

 

The point I was trying to make is that we already have a ruleset to wich everyone ultimately agreed when they joined the alpha test.

Not knowing the rules does not excuse for bad behavior.

 

If everyone would follow the rules we would be fine.

 

Yes, if everyone followed the rules we would be fine.

 

But the actual question is how to make that happen - I say let the community decide (which is pretty much what happens in 'real' life). The community's consensus as to what is acceptable and what is not is expressed in the form of blocking in chat anyone who uses offensive language. And on the basis of the number of blocks (votes) the offender has penalties imposed upon them - possibly even a ban if they don't mend their ways.

 

I believe this solution is easy to implement and also very democratic

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I am willing to participate. 

 

As to other posts saying it is up to moderators and devs to police this I completely disagree.  Every player has the choice to post/chat something like this when faced with toxic behaviour, "Your language and/or attitude is not supportive of our community and will not be tolerated".

The Devs have said that coming up they will be looking for more Moderators, with more ingame, they can and should stop most of this, by giving a warning ingame.

But as it stands atm, we have people testing the game form all time zones and atm there are NOT enough to Moderate this.

So if someone is abusive atm then take snapshots and post in this forum, advise them of this and then if need .ignore them.

This is part of the online community, and there will always be those that will do this.

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Let me start by saying that this community is absolutely awesome, and I think they are doing a fantastic job at dealing with the behaviour problems that we are facing with. Personally, I've played a pretty large array of games, from Moba's and FPS's to RTS and survival games. Over the course of playing games in these games, the one thing that was always a constant was the toxic behaviour that took place in online matches. It's gotten so bad, that now it's almost a write off, and it's just accepted.

 

When I bought this game, the very first thing I noticed was how friendly and mature this community was. During my first half a dozen matches, I don't think I saw one curse in chat, but instead just helpful critiques and shows of support. Whenever someone had a question about a game mechanic or a ship, there was always someone quick to respond, and help any way they could. Frankly, in all my years of gaming, the people that play this game the by far the best I've come across.

 

Now that I've owned this game for almost two months and recorded my fair share of battles, I can safely say that you guys are handling the behaviour situation quite well. I've only had a handful of instances where I've met or played with someone who was being rather rude and disruptive, and to my knowledge, all of those people have been dealt with. I think that if everyone in the community currently does there part in trying to weed out the amount of rude behaviour in the game as it stands, it'll do wonders for you later when the pre-orders open up again, or when it is released on Steam. Remember guys, a little bit of self accountability can go a long way.  :)

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We don't need this to turn into rules lawyering or accusations of favoritism.  No set of rules can be written in such a way as to be complete and unambiguous, while still being readable, easy to follow, and easily enforced.  Because of this, some amount of common sense must be applied by the player base in following those rules, or in being adult enough to apologize if you are found to have crossed the line.  If you feel the rules have been applied inappropriately or with bias, please contact an uninvolved moderator or use the support email.  Let's keep this thread on topic please!

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I am willing to participate. 

 

As to other posts saying it is up to moderators and devs to police this I completely disagree.  Every player has the choice to post/chat something like this when faced with toxic behaviour, "Your language and/or attitude is not supportive of our community and will not be tolerated". 

I am in violent agreement, state you support publically and join the solution:

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4431-naval-action-player-code-of-conduct-submitted-by-the-ausl/

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I am willing to participate. 

 

As to other posts saying it is up to moderators and devs to police this I completely disagree.  Every player has the choice to post/chat something like this when faced with toxic behaviour, "Your language and/or attitude is not supportive of our community and will not be tolerated". 

 

 

 

That's the reaction we were looking after. Its everyone's responsibility to mold the community to the right shape to be able to feel at home here. It is not only to moderators - we don't have in house moderation and moderators are volunteers who are as passionate about age of sail as you are. We chose them because they were with us from the start or were extremely active in the community. Some day one of you will also be invited.

 

Would also like to comment on the grey areas.. Some of you might be upset your posts were hidden. We prefer to err on the positive side and if the post sounds abusive (even if it is constructed properly) it will most likely be hidden. Please don't take it personally. It has nothing to do with you or you post content. If your post was hidden you can rephrase it the next day - i guarantee it will come out much nicer and will be more useful to developers or other community members.

 

Also

Even though we use "no broken windows" policy.  We have only banned 1 forum member over last year and we hope this trend stays.

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Well how things are evolving now i can say that im proud to be a part of this beautiful community and no one would be happyer then me if it stays that way in the future or even improve if possible :)

 

One thing i want to point out that all the Moderators are douing a suberb job and watching the forums and in game behavior and they are allways fast and promt to react at any unwanted and undesired behavior that mite occur.

And for that i want to thank them and help in any way i can as do most of other players/people in game/forum.

Gentlemans you are the plume of this community that im proud to be a member and please continue like this in the future and be prepared for much more work at hand when the game reach it full relese and much much more player will come to game you will have full hands of work im sure of it.But if you continue douing your work with same passion like now i think even then there should not be a problem.

 

 

 

Kind regards to all and especially to moderating team,

 

 

 

 

Comandante Axis - RAE

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Would also like to comment on the grey areas.. Some of you might be upset your posts were hidden. We prefer to err on the positive side and if the post sounds abusive (even if it is constructed properly) it will most likely be hidden. Please don't take it personally. It has nothing to do with you or you post content. If your post was hidden you can rephrase it the next day - i guarantee it will come out much nicer and will be more useful to developers or other community members.

 

Does this positive side mean that only people who 100% agree with your cleansing of the internet can post, and that the people who are at 95% or below aren't allowed to comment? In any case I'd like to express concerns over this, I mean we could do all we like, and I love the idea of not having a WoT community, but as a person who plays EVE of all games I'd have to watch my steps very carefully if we are going for 100% sterile. I don't want to have to worry about that every time I log on, it'll end up being: (Me) "Why the f*** did you friendly fire??" (Other Person) "OMG he swore D:" Other person runs to forums shouting "Admin!!!!!!!!!!! HE SAID MEAN THINGS" and then I'll be in the next match and all of a sudden insta-ban. As much as I want a non-WoT community, I don't want someone shouting at me just because I said something unsavory. We need a middle ground, but we cannot give people the power to be able to report someone and have them banned because they strayed slightly off the thin white line that is political correctness. I will do my part if I see someone getting completely out of hand, but I refuse to target someone because they called someone a name in chat and that's all.

 

-edit: removed some lines-

Edited by Brigand
You started out a constructive post, don't threaten staff.
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Does this positive side mean that only people who 100% agree with your cleansing of the internet can post, and that the people who are at 95% or below aren't allowed to comment? In any case I'd like to express concerns over this, I mean we could do all we like, and I love the idea of not having a WoT community, but as a person who plays EVE of all games I'd have to watch my steps very carefully if we are going for 100% sterile. I don't want to have to worry about that every time I log on, it'll end up being: (Me) "Why the f*** did you friendly fire??" (Other Person) "OMG he swore D:" Other person runs to forums shouting "Admin!!!!!!!!!!! HE SAID MEAN THINGS" and then I'll be in the next match and all of a sudden insta-ban. As much as I want a non-WoT community, I don't want someone shouting at me just because I said something unsavory. We need a middle ground, but we cannot give people the power to be able to report someone and have them banned because they strayed slightly off the thin white line that is political correctness. I will do my part if I see someone getting completely out of hand, but I refuse to target someone because they called someone a name in chat and that's all.

 

-edit: removed some lines-

 

I have to agree. Find a balance between toxic and political correctness

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I have to agree. Find a balance between toxic and political correctness

 

Yes.  With the limited capabilities of on-line interaction, it takes careful design of software and process to avoid extremists of any polarity from taking the fun out of it for the rest of the player base.  My observation is that the debate on these forums has been about whether that's even possible and how to find that balance.  

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Does this positive side mean that only people who 100% agree with your cleansing of the internet can post, and that the people who are at 95% or below aren't allowed to comment? In any case I'd like to express concerns over this, (...)

@admin made a relevant post to this:

 

I just want to clarify after Darby

The rules allows cursing. Sea is not a nursery home.

We already said that

  • f******g weather - ok
  • **** you - prohibited
Discussing other player or his skill in a creative age of sail way - is totally fine (guide is pinned). Offensive personal attacks or and family references are prohibited.

ps cursing was an offense in the royal navy punishable by lashes.. I am not sure if it was strictly enforced and not sure people brought it up often. We take the same position - if you bring it up we take action.

ps2 report player and ignore function is already in testing and will be rolled out with the open world.

 

Hope this gives a bit of guidance,

~Brigand

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Does this positive side mean that only people who 100% agree with your cleansing of the internet can post, and that the people who are at 95% or below aren't allowed to comment? In any case I'd like to express concerns over this, I mean we could do all we like, and I love the idea of not having a WoT community, but as a person who plays EVE of all games I'd have to watch my steps very carefully if we are going for 100% sterile. I don't want to have to worry about that every time I log on, it'll end up being: (Me) "Why the f*** did you friendly fire??" (Other Person) "OMG he swore D:" Other person runs to forums shouting "Admin!!!!!!!!!!! HE SAID MEAN THINGS" and then I'll be in the next match and all of a sudden insta-ban. As much as I want a non-WoT community, I don't want someone shouting at me just because I said something unsavory. We need a middle ground, but we cannot give people the power to be able to report someone and have them banned because they strayed slightly off the thin white line that is political correctness. I will do my part if I see someone getting completely out of hand, but I refuse to target someone because they called someone a name in chat and that's all.

 

-edit: removed some lines-

 

So effectively, you're saying you are completely unable to control yourself to avoid using vulgar language directed at others?  I don't know of many professional workplaces that tolerate people being abusive to one another, most people certainly don't walk down the street cursing loudly at other passersby, and you're generally carded and subsequently asked to leave the game in the recreational soccer league I plan in if you're abusive towards the other players.  Yet somehow, we think that just because we're online, we can treat other people poorly and disrespectfully?  Personally, I find it baffling that people are unable to follow the simple rule of treating other Captains respectfully.

 

Back in the Napoleonic Era, being disrespectful would generally end up with being called out and subjected to a sword or gunfight with the aggrieved party.  If you were going to go around being disrespectful (as a gentleman of the higher classes), you had better be amazing with a sword or gun, and even then, you could expect serious injury even if you won.  Sometimes, I think maybe we lost a degree of "civility" when this practice was discontinued.  ;)

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So effectively, you're saying you are completely unable to control yourself to avoid using vulgar language directed at others?  I don't know of many professional workplaces that tolerate people being abusive to one another, most people certainly don't walk down the street cursing loudly at other passersby, and you're generally carded and subsequently asked to leave the game in the recreational soccer league I plan in if you're abusive towards the other players.  Yet somehow, we think that just because we're online, we can treat other people poorly and disrespectfully?  Personally, I find it baffling that people are unable to follow the simple rule of treating other Captains respectfully.

 

Back in the Napoleonic Era, being disrespectful would generally end up with being called out and subjected to a sword or gunfight with the aggrieved party.  If you were going to go around being disrespectful (as a gentleman of the higher classes), you had better be amazing with a sword or gun, and even then, you could expect serious injury even if you won.  Sometimes, I think maybe we lost a degree of "civility" when this practice was discontinued.  ;)

 

I had quite a chuckle at this actually, funniest thing I've seen all day. Much assumptions such wow? Anyway, no I am not saying I am unable to control myself although I can see where my comments may have been misconstrued. No, what I am saying is that being in a semi-toxic community like EvE and having been assimilated into that means that I and many other people coming from semi- or even completely toxic communties are going to have to watch their step very carefully if the devs plan really is 100% sterility in the community. Which would take away the fun, and move the focus away from the game.

Edited by Sir John Franklin
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@admin made a relevant post to this:

 

Hope this gives a bit of guidance,

~Brigand

 

In regards to your comment Brigand, the guidance is really not necessary. I know what bounds to not tread over, and what can and cannot be said, like I was saying to Sir Hardy it's the fact that coming from a toxic community to a 100% sterile community is a shock to the system and will end up in the people having made that transfer worrying, checking, rechecking every word of chat to make sure they won't get a ban.

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The internet can be really toxic, and a game won't ever be 100% sterile. As games get more people, more toxic people come.

 

I realize some people hate stuff like swearing, but that will always be there. In the end, you can't completely control the final actions other people. You can only do so much. 

 

I'm fine with the reporting and stuff, but if I say an occasional "are you fking kidding me" or "god dammit xyz," or anything along those lines, I don't want to get beat up for that. 

 

I've seen communities fall apart because of this no swearing no toxicity thing, and I don't want that to happen here. 

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As an aside, and as an old sailor, I find the notion of sailors not swearing pretty damn funny.

 

The "swear" words used have changed significantly over the years.  The f-bomb dropping sailor is more a product of the 20th Century compared to to the "salty" language of an 18th Century Jack.

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In regards to your comment Brigand, the guidance is really not necessary. I know what bounds to not tread over, and what can and cannot be said, like I was saying to Sir Hardy it's the fact that coming from a toxic community to a 100% sterile community is a shock to the system and will end up in the people having made that transfer worrying, checking, rechecking every word of chat to make sure they won't get a ban.

 

This sounds like a good thing to me. Coming from a toxic gaming community, you should take some time to familiarize yourself with the way things are here before putting your foot in your mouth, and if someone is such a enlightened individual that they're scared away entirely by it, even better. Such a person would make a horrible captain and teammate, anyway. Give a person like that a line ship, and you'll really harm the community.

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Seems like the focus here is on swearing and text content but rather ignores the actions that precipitate it.

I was concerned with my initial engagements and the reaction from some fellow players. My concern was not so much with their language but that my actions were unacceptable and deserving of the anger focused on me. The interaction between players in a passionate community may generate some emotion. The first question that might be asked is the an emotional response warranted.

We might expect that if a player started deliberately ramming teammates the text responses probably will be critical and insulting and terms like “stupid”or “careless” or “idiot” may be founded and appropriate when describing the offender’s actions. Additionally, if I see a racist reference I will happily ignore any and all insults and profanity directed at the offender.

I was relieved to learn that other actions in game are acceptable to the majority even though these same actions cause other players to become angry. Actions like; kiting, storm quitting and poor positioning are all perfectly acceptable but may generate some insulting texting from opinionated players who think that such actions are universally negative. Those opinionated players are simply attempting to modify what they mistakenly believe is poor unsportsmanlike gameplay.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4438-did-i-do-it-wrong/

Any reasonable person understands that RL threats and discrimination must never be tolerated. Well intentioned criticism can often be interpreted as an insult. A greater clarity of what is acceptable in terms of gameplay will help me to be unaffected by a confused player who misunderstands our standards and thinks he has been assaulted by my actions.

The insults are connected to the action that generated it. Often acceptable actions are not common sense. We are not born understanding the dos and don’ts of etiquette. It is learned behavior.

Clearly describing unacceptable gameplay is helpful to reduce the incidents of toxic behavior and insulate the effects of it.

Is the the swearing toxic? Meh…. It’s the emotion and bad will behind it that does the harm. Focus on a the choice of words for a gameplay standard rather than the language used in the heat of battle.

Edited by macjimm
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With regards to in-game behavior.  Yes, people are annoying sometimes.  The Developers have been extremely responsive in incorporating game mechanics to limit behavior that they find unacceptable.  In the case of damage farming, there has been an unequivocal statement that one should fight their ship and not sit idly by to let others get "free" damage.  Short of that, the mechanics enforce the rules.  If you disagree with the way a player is behaving, you can either avoid them in that match and ignore them, or exit and play a new match with different folks.

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I would like to say maintaining a civil environment is 100% achievable, however, that is absolutely not possible.  Still, I believe that should be our goal.  All players can do their part by setting a good example while in the game and on the forum.   The poor behaving players or posters will always be a very small minority an dthere is no reason the vast majority of players or the game itself should suffer for their behavior.  There will always be trolls who get their giggles from aggravating people but some of the problem lies in our reaction to such goading.  We cannot control what other people say or do but we can always control how we react to such things.

 

I would hope that we do not experience here what I have witnessed in other games, but I believe we all have a responsibilty to do our share in maintaining an enjoyable gaming experience.   Whether by reporting unacceptable behavior or by simply being the type of player we want to play with, we have our role in the matter.

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I would like to say maintaining a civil environment is 100% achievable, however, that is absolutely not possible.  Still, I believe that should be our goal.  All players can do their part by setting a good example while in the game and on the forum.   The poor behaving players or posters will always be a very small minority an dthere is no reason the vast majority of players or the game itself should suffer for their behavior.  There will always be trolls who get their giggles from aggravating people but some of the problem lies in our reaction to such goading.  We cannot control what other people say or do but we can always control how we react to such things.

 

I would hope that we do not experience here what I have witnessed in other games, but I believe we all have a responsibilty to do our share in maintaining an enjoyable gaming experience.   Whether by reporting unacceptable behavior or by simply being the type of player we want to play with, we have our role in the matter.

Exactly. If we don't try, then we have already failed. Having a 97% sterile community is still amazing, so let's strive to achieve the best community possible.

 

Just a friendly reminder, remember to respond properly to toxicity. Fighting fire with fire isn't going to get us anywhere. 

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You're trying to create internet utopia here. Beautiful plan, but still - hopeless.

Well, but you will always be able to say in a year or two: "Oh, that's not what it was in the past. It was the Golden Age!" or even better : "I was there, I created this wonderful world! Unfortunately, everything fell!"

 

:D

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