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Wind Scale, wind effect on a Ship


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  • 2 weeks later...

During one of my lectures concerning atmospheric pressure and the effects it has on weather, our professor brought up the Beaufort Wind Scale.

 

At its most basic, the scale concerns itself with the observable effects of wind at sea.  The scale gives approximations of wind speeds in conjunction with observable wind conditions at sea. 

beaufort_wind_force_scale_poster.jpg

 

I believe it would be helpful if this (or a similar scale) would be implemented to help captains discern certain weather conditions. The game's weather system, in turn, could then follow a similar weather progression system. 

 

Initially, it would just be extra information that the player could look into. For example, say on the toolbar, mousing over it would give the (approximate) time of day, location, Beaufort Level, etc. But this could also have a major game-play aspect to it: Remember, the scale only gives approximations for wind speeds, so (for example) in-game, the Beaufort Factor of 9 is known to tear sails and break masts if they are set. However, depending on the actual wind speed (which is not given) if it is low enough, you might be able to get away with setting your sails without incident.

 

Here's a quick run-down video

 

Any other possible implementations?

 

Cheers,

William Drummond, the Drake

Edited by William the Drake
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  • 2 months later...

I dont know if this has been mentioned before but will there be different wind speeds? i just think it be cool if during a battle the wind would change speeds it would make things intresting. it would also be a reason to add studding sails

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1st I agree, wind change of speed and direction would be great. We have set 1 and set storm i would also like high wind to need reduced sail.

 

2nd did anyone else think of blazing saddles the second they saw this threads title???

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Wind speed changes are tricky because many users will be eventually annoyed if their ship instead of sailing 12knots will stop to a halt. 

 

Perhaps wind speed could be variable with a lower limit to avoid the extreme annoyance of stopping to a halt.

 

Not sure how we could assimilate the high storm winds that require lessening sail.  I imagine that it would be far too complex considering the current limitations already with the increased speed when not within an instance.   Unless ....would it be possible for a storm to trigger an instance.  Afterall a storm seems to be as great (or greater) a threat as an enemy fleet.

 

Regardless, NA is a marvelous game.  No insult intended.  Just dreaming.

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Wind speed changes are tricky because many users will be eventually annoyed if their ship instead of sailing 12knots will stop to a halt. 

Well that's not a wind speed change, is it? That's a calm.

 

When I think about wind speed, the first thing that comes to mind is squalls, gusts and directional changes. That is, exciting stuff that can be exploited by the attentive captain, turning a dull WASD run-out-the-timer OW gank-attempt into a dramatic chase that requires skill and rapt attention.

 

You would make every sailor and realism-fan ecstatic by implementing wind changes in one direction only. That is, heck, make the current in-game wind speed the minimum. Just give us squalls and gusts to play with. Just say the word and I know I would go crazy with diagrammed feature proposals.

 

 

 

I should also point out that OW storms in the current implementation literally cause your ship to halt. But there hasn't been any rebellion of enraged players to my knowledge. So a light wind battle with a 30-50% speed penalty shouldn't be absolutely out-of-the-question.

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Why would you impose dead calms with wind variation? I don't think anyone is asking for that. When we have ships turning without being under way (the artificial kedging/warping) I don't see there being much resistance to a minimum wind.

 

I used to play/mod Age of Pirates 2 and with a moderate understanding of the code you were able to adjust the wind settings however you liked them. The ideal settings for me were having the lowest possible wind strength at about 30%. No dead calms but enough variation that it was never repetitive.

 

Wind variation has to be attempted at the least and I would love it to include really short gusts that can catch you out from time to time also. Really turn the sailing into something you have to think about.

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Surprises me nobody has mentioned the modules yet.

 

Why can we have extra modules inside a battlefield and not on open sea. Like a modules that give u extra speed when the wind is not in ur favor (see the module as experienced sailors that know how to get a bit more speed out of the sails when u have a head wind). Maybe later on in the game storms can do damage to ur ship, wich u can decline a bit by adding that extra module. Or maybe later on in the game a module for extra cargo on ur ship, nice for traders. A module that makes u just a bit faster on outsailing enemie ships.

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Some variation in wind direction would definitely make the game interesting.  When sail racing it's the crews who can make the most of wind changes that come out on top and so it should be in Naval Action, imho. 

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I wouldn't be surprised if those are in fact added at some point. Right now there are permamods and maybe those will one day reflect open sailing. With the introduction of traders, more requests will be made for these type of adjustments since crew and gun loading speed just isn't necessary for them.

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btw do we really need the autoskipper, or could we maybe have him removed from advanced ships like frigs and sols?

Uh, yes.

 

I'm pretty sure you could poll all the top players and the people who sail square riggers in real life, and you'll find that they have autoskipper engaged 95% of the time.

 

Trying to aim and brace yards at the same time sounds like torture to me.

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everybody use autoskipper, it would be stupid not to use him if he is avaible, but im thinking about stuff like a snow escaping a cerberus or 3 navybrigs trough better use of manual sails. or make autoskipper avaible only trough officer slot, or remove it only from high rated ships so the game is easier when you start as a beginner but have higher learning curve towards the end ships

otherwise any "racing" or "chasing" happening in this game is reduced to setting course and pressing "F"

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I dont know if this has been mentioned before but will there be different wind speeds? i just think it be cool if during a battle the wind would change speeds it would make things intresting. it would also be a reason to add studding sails

 

+1 different Windspeeds in diffrent locations of an instanced battle

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Wind speed changes are tricky because many users will be eventually annoyed if their ship instead of sailing 12knots will stop to a halt. 

 

 

Who says wind speed changes have to include calm wind?   You could have changes in the upper register that simply require modification of sails to maintain max speeds, or maintain max speed without sail damage.  Perhaps also some slower winds, but still enough to keep ships at 50%+ of max speed with all sails set (but these could be artificially rare, say only 25% of time).  Add in audio effects to help cue players to changes and variable wave conditions (not necessarily synched perfectly to wind speed at all times) and you have some awesome depth and variety.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well guys, I agree with most that is said here, but would like to add some points.

 

Dolldrums are rare in real life if the routes are duly chosen. As an example, no serious seaman would try to travel accross the Ocean along the equatorial line, or try to cross this line when far from the coast.

At some places, there is normally wind, while at anothers there isn't, and these routes were known. Hence if the routing choice is duly done, there would have to be no doldrums problems.

 

About how the sail area and wind force are related, a few things to comment.

From the limit heel angle point of view. There is a limiting wind force for each sails arrangement that is computed for the worst condition (Wind athwardships and sails settled midships). Winds over this limit, would lead to capsizing.

 

The way a squared rigged ship behaves into different conditions is well explained at the work;

 

"CFD Analysis of the Survivability of a Square-Rigged Sailing Vessel" by William C. Lasher* and Logan S. Flaherty.

 

This lecture includes a very useful polar curve that could be enough for including a reasonable "wind effects" in the dynamic model of the ships of the game.

 

A smart simplification but real enough, could be stating a fixed GM (metacentric height) for each kind of ship, that could be affected by flooding.

From the decribed polar cuves. the computation of a value for heeling moment and propulsive power are trivial (drifting force as well if desired). And finally, the heeling angle and/or capsize conditions would become easy.

Thats not required an accurate or scientific prediction, but only a valid and believable approach to reality, that from very simple maths, can be achieved.

 

Regards

Edited by IonAguirre
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