Joe Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Yes they were late to the game but I do remember the U.S.S Independence with 90 guns being listed as an 1814 vessel. Would paper ships be put in the game must a ship have sailed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Please don't go the World of Tanks route with fantasy stuff that never got past a drawing board. There are so many interesting ships that actually sailed and fought that I really hope these will take precedence over "fantasy" ships. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirones Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 some american players from the old testing agreed that only the ships of the USA that saw combat should be added. and honestly i dont think they need any large SoL's they have the most and formidable choices when it comes to frigates and privateer ships wich will be the most comon in the openworld. and the Independence with 90 guns will sit very deep in the water like the trinidad so when you want them to perform like normal means you cant put 32pounders on all deck. blame your anchestors they where thinking only more daka is best daka. wich is why she and her sister ships where later turned into Razee's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 It's doubtful Spain will have a ship in every class, so it's no tragedy if the US has to sail 'foreign' SOLs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leviathan Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I wouldn't mind seeing one but I'm sure it will be very far down the line, if ever, that we get one. I have a feeling I'll spend most of my time in the Rattlesnake (when available), Constitution, and Bellona anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austrum Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 some american players from the old testing agreed that only the ships of the USA that saw combat should be added. and honestly i dont think they need any large SoL's they have the most and formidable choices when it comes to frigates and privateer ships wich will be the most comon in the openworld. and the Independence with 90 guns will sit very deep in the water like the trinidad so when you want them to perform like normal means you cant put 32pounders on all deck. blame your anchestors they where thinking only more daka is best daka. wich is why she and her sister ships where later turned into Razee's. Fully agree here. America had a few great Frigates and the Razee's plus a few privateers and such from the Revolutionary war but a Naval Power they were not, not until around the Civil War anyway and that is out of our time line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysion Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I expect the standard 74 gun 3rd rates will be floating around in abundance and not be too hard to get ahold of. Many such ships were built by several nations, so they should be 'in circulation' so to speak. I expect the finished game to have more than just bellona representing this rather large family of ships. Honestly three deckers are not very good ships. They are powerful sure but too unwieldy and getting their full broadsides to hit anything smaller than them is hard and typically makes them waste firepower anyway. So when thinking about what american 'sol' may have to face, you really only need to think too much about opposing third rates. Large east indiamen were converted into fourth rates, and aquiring merchant ships will probably not be too difficult for any nation, so they just have to build big ones. The 44 gun frigates often carried more than 44 guns in reality, hopefuly this can be reflected in game, then you have the cut down independance to think of. All of these ships can be considered the equivalent to 4th rates, and a rag tag group of them with some 'generic 74 gunners' throw in could make a decent fleet to oppose the standard fleet of a bunch of 3rd rates with a first or second as flag ship. I admit thinking about how the US may do things like that and have to take more special measures compared to the more standardized fleets of the major naval powers of the time is very attractive to me, and makes me hope that such restrictive national characteirstics may exist. Cobbling togeather a large fleet when you absolutly need one, and then flexing your frigate muscle better than anyone else to try and win an economic advantage to ensure that fleet actually has a chance sounds exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 The American 1sts/2nds are well outside of the timeline. Which calls into question making them a playable 'major power' when they had minuscule naval strength and were blockaded quite entirely in 1815. France, Spain, England, the Dutch, Russia, all had times with massive fleets or times when they were true naval powers, but America? Not until well past the games timeline. Maybe the Spanish American War? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crankey Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 We need to remember the Devs time restriction on inclusion. But lets not forget the American strength was in its Super heavy frigates, its smaller vessels and of course its crews general high morale. Let us hope that Morale makes it into the game in some form. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeRuyter Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 We need to remember the Devs time restriction on inclusion. But lets not forget the American strength was in its Super heavy frigates, its smaller vessels and of course its crews general high morale. Let us hope that Morale makes it into the game in some form. Yes - privateers who ran the blockade in fast schooners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hood Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 America did make a 74 within the timeline and it was handed to the French, perhaps that one would be implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 and honestly i dont think they need any large SoL's they have the most and formidable choices when it comes to frigates and privateer ships wich will be the most comon in the openworld. I assume nations won't be restricted to their national ships. We will be using British, Spanish and French, etc ships for our sols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austrum Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Why does everyone get so hung up on having ships restricted by faction. Seriously, restrictions aren't fun and it would be a truly massive waste of all that beautiful modeling work by limiting each faction to only maybe 20% of the ships modeled and available in the game. Honestly just think of what we are going to get is a historical alternative universe where over years of conflicts, alliances, treaties and trade, the many different ships classes have made there way to all nations and interested parties. Maybe America bought Victory Class 1st rates. Perhaps as part of a trade agreement, Spain furnished France with several classes of Frigate. Perhaps as part of a treaty, Russia offered up a dozen Ingermanland Class 3rd rates to the Netherlands. Perhaps Denmark captured a Caribbean shipyard that had been building Leda class Frigates. They how or why doesn't matter just that ships and ship classes changed hands meaning you could find a Constitution in operation by the Russian Fleet or Victory being used by Spain. Simple, clean and a hell of alot more fun than being restricted from using your favorite ship just because your friends or player association (Clan, Guild or whatever) just had to be part of the Spanish Armada. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MesserJocke Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 The American 1sts/2nds are well outside of the timeline. Which calls into question making them a playable 'major power' when they had minuscule naval strength and were blockaded quite entirely in 1815. France, Spain, England, the Dutch, Russia, all had times with massive fleets or times when they were true naval powers, but America? Not until well past the games timeline. Maybe the Spanish American War? And no one cares how many super frigates you have when you are blockaded entirely. But...but... Murrrica ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 The USS Ohio built in 1817 - 1820 should qualify - it carried 104 guns! The second USS Ohio was a ship of the line of the United States Navy. She was designed by Henry Eckford, laid down at Brooklyn Navy Yard in 1817, and launched on 30 May 1820. She went into ordinary and in the ensuing years decayed badly. Refitted for service in 1838, Ohio sailed on 16 October 1838 to join the Mediterranean Squadron under Commodore Isaac Hull. Acting as flagship for two years, she protected commerce and suppressed the slave trade off the African coast. Ohio proved to have excellent performance under sail, repeatedly making more than 12 kn (14 mph; 22 km/h). One of her officers stated, "I never supposed such a ship could be built — a ship possessing in so great a degree all the qualifications of a perfect vessel." In 1840, Ohio returned to Boston where she again went into ordinary. From 1841-1846, Ohio served as receiving ship. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelfury Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I think the only issue with having all ships available to everyone is that then you get only a few ships actually being built, because why build anything less than the best? - let's say everyone can build Ohio's, then you'll see everyone building them - unless they're prohibitively expensive. Perhaps make ships of the specific nation cheaper to build by that nation? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leviathan Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Thread is cleaned up. Please stay on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagann Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) The USS Ohio built in 1817 - 1820 should qualify - it carried 104 guns! indeed, it should be qualified. But 104 guns, really ? It's not a 74 guns ? Edited February 26, 2015 by Dagann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Id like to see a simple list of possible ships, I don't know enough about the era but I bet there's a list somewhere of American SOL's that might meet time criteria. Though as pointed out the super Frigates like the Constitution would probably see far more action I'd still love to see what else could be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Please don't go the World of Tanks route with fantasy stuff that never got past a drawing board. There are so many interesting ships that actually sailed and fought that I really hope these will take precedence over "fantasy" ships. Beautiful age of sail vessels will be made in game. We will never cross the 1830-40 metal hulls line (or steam vessels). Chapman yacht (in game) only existed on paper, we plan to add more vessels from the Chapman drawings. Same could happen with the US designed ships. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) indeed, it should be qualified. But 104 guns, really ? It's not a 74 guns ? I am old - but I'm not old enough to have actually counted them. I will have to rely on the Currier & Ives researcher who stated that number in 1846 as I have posted with the Litho. If YOU were there to count a different number - I am all ears. The Niles National Register of 3 October 1840 reported the observations of an English captain in the Royal Navy: "The Ohio is the perfection of a line-of-battleship." Edited February 26, 2015 by ampaholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Beautiful age of sail vessels In that case Ohio is definitely out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 In that case Ohio is definitely out! Haha, I do agree with you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 heh, I don't think she's any less ugly than Victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leviathan Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 It doesn't have the curves and style of a ship like the Bellona (even the Constitution is somewhat bland in comparison) but it has it's own utilitarian look that it means business. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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