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Ghostrider2800

Spanish Galleon

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Well...if the ship's line up starts on the 16th century..then the above ships are eligible...

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11-game-introduction/

 

Thought the finalized the time frame to be like 1670 to 1830??

 

Honestly while I love quite a few ships built from 1670-1700, anything older just seems out of place in a game where you have advanced Frigates like the Constitution.  1670-1700 kind of seems to be a big transition period where ships still had lots of character but each and every one of them had modern lines that are very recognizable even in the early 1800s.  Before than there were just alot of oddly shaped ships that didn't even appear to be all that seaworthy.

 

However, from what little research I have done, it does appear Galleons were actually active throughout the 1700s so I guess they could technically add some in.  Maybe some of the latest build models wouldn't look too out of place. 

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Well...if the ship's line up starts on the 16th century..then the above ships are eligible...

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11-game-introduction/

 

Yes, but actually, no.

 

None of the ships in Naval Action have been really old vessels from 1600's or even early 1700's.  I think the idea that ships from the earlier part of that time scale would be fine in Naval Action is actually a mistake, and that should be changed.

 

So far I haven't seen Games Labs pick any old ship designs as well. They're pretty much using Napoleonic war era ships.

 

The whole point of a galleon was to have a very high fore and aft ends of the ships to allow for crew to shoot down onto the deck of a smaller warship with their muskets, and even crossbows.

 

Once cannons became more useful with innovations like flintlock firing instead of slow matches, barrels that were honed/machined to a uniform size rather than rough castings, and corned gunpowder in bags rather than meal powder loaded loose from a ladle that sort of design of a galleons elevated fore and aft decks were eliminated.  The big cannons took over instead of the old way of using ships as floating infantry forts.  The high decks of a galleon only made the ships hard to control (wind hits the hull too), and the later era ships are pretty much just flat decks with much, much larger cannons.

Edited by weirdguy

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The British 4th rate HMS Centurioun captured a Spanish Galleon as late as 1741, so they were still in use at that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Centurion_%281732%29#Anson.27s_circumnavigation

From the drawings and painting I've seen of the galleon from that incident, it looked toned down and more modern than the one Ghostrider posted.

 

It was still a galleon though, and I think they would fit well in the open world game. Buying an old out dated galleon could be a good choice if a player wants to start a trading fleet and can't afford a more modern Indiaman.

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I should ask more pecisely. Well you are absolutely right. A spanish galleon wouldnt be suitable for the game right now. In a PvP or PvE game it would be totally outclassed. But when the game is finished and it will be the open world game which Game-Labs is promising us.

 

I would love to have some old galleons for trading with a few connons for self defence. On the other hand i would love to have a strong navy with heavy Frigates like the Constitution or ships of the line like the Victory.

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Kriswood was building a model of that Galleon a while back (he built the PotBS Centurion). It was for all intents and purposes an Indiaman, only the name links it to older galleons.

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A modell of her Sister ship Nuestra senora del Pilar  both where spanish 4th rates

at first i was thinking: San Fernando?(PotBS) but the stern on the side where diffrent.

 

adicional2.jpg15001_nuestra_senora_del_pilar-120.jpg

OC15001-Senora-del-Pilar--victoryshipmod

 

 

 

Nuestra Señora de la Covadonga

 

1731/07/08    Left Filipinas to Acapulco with patache San Cristobal.  

1732/01         Arrived to Acapulco.  

1732/03/21    Both left Acapulco back to Filipinas with 1,322,700 pesos.  

1733/07/26    Left Filipinas to Acapulco with N S del Pilar  

1734/08         Arrived back to Filipinas with N S del Pilar  

1736/07/31    Left Manila to Acapulco with N S del Pilar  

1737/08         Arrived back to Filipinas with N S del Pilar  

1740/07/17    Left Cavite to Acapulco.  

1741/01/12    Arrived to Acapulco.  

1741/08         Arrived back to Filipinas.  

1742/07/22    Left Cavite to Acapulco.  

1743/02/18    Arrived to Acapulco.  

1743/04/15    Left Acapulco back to Filipinas with 1,313,843 pesos & 35,682 silver ounces.  

1743/06/16    Nearby Cape Espiritu Santo, found Cpt. George Anson's Centurion, (60)   1743/06/16 Taken by Centurion  

1743/07        Towed by Centurion, both arrived to Canton.  

1743/07        Sold the hull by the british to portuguesse for 6,000 pesos.

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Yes, but actually, no.

 

None of the ships in Naval Action have been really old vessels from 1600's or even early 1700's.  I think the idea that ships from the earlier part of that time scale would be fine in Naval Action is actually a mistake, and that should be changed.

 

So far I haven't seen Games Labs pick any old ship designs as well. They're pretty much using Napoleonic war era ships.

 

The whole point of a galleon was to have a very high fore and aft ends of the ships to allow for crew to shoot down onto the deck of a smaller warship with their muskets, and even crossbows.

 

Once cannons became more useful with innovations like flintlock firing instead of slow matches, barrels that were honed/machined to a uniform size rather than rough castings, and corned gunpowder in bags rather than meal powder loaded loose from a ladle that sort of design of a galleons elevated fore and aft decks were eliminated.  The big cannons took over instead of the old way of using ships as floating infantry forts.  The high decks of a galleon only made the ships hard to control (wind hits the hull too), and the later era ships are pretty much just flat decks with much, much larger cannons.

 

Ingermanland which will be in game in a few months most likely was launched n 1715 so what is currently the case and what will shortly be the case is two very different things.  Personally I am still really hoping that the HMS Mordaunt (1681) which is a beautiful, relatively undergunned (Compared to Frigates like the Trin or Connie) 46-gun 4th rate SoL, eventually makes it into the game as well.   It is not going to be the most competitive PvP ship but I would sail her nonetheless, especially in the Open World if for no other reason that I like the way she looks.  Same for Galleons. They might not be the most competitive PvP ship or even really take part in the death match game mode, but they will have a place in the open world.

 

Also, keep in mind they voted in the Amsterdam in the last player poll which is at its core a civilian trader vessel.  Despite the fact it carries quite a few guns, I honestly don't expect it to be very competitive in PvP either but it will be a great trader vessel in the Open World. 

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A modell of her Sister ship Nuestra senora del Pilar  both where spanish 4th rates

at first i was thinking: San Fernando?(PotBS) but the stern on the side where diffrent.

 

adicional2.jpg15001_nuestra_senora_del_pilar-120.jpg

OC15001-Senora-del-Pilar--victoryshipmod

 

 

 

Nuestra Señora de la Covadonga

 

1731/07/08    Left Filipinas to Acapulco with patache San Cristobal.  

1732/01         Arrived to Acapulco.  

1732/03/21    Both left Acapulco back to Filipinas with 1,322,700 pesos.  

1733/07/26    Left Filipinas to Acapulco with N S del Pilar  

1734/08         Arrived back to Filipinas with N S del Pilar  

1736/07/31    Left Manila to Acapulco with N S del Pilar  

1737/08         Arrived back to Filipinas with N S del Pilar  

1740/07/17    Left Cavite to Acapulco.  

1741/01/12    Arrived to Acapulco.  

1741/08         Arrived back to Filipinas.  

1742/07/22    Left Cavite to Acapulco.  

1743/02/18    Arrived to Acapulco.  

1743/04/15    Left Acapulco back to Filipinas with 1,313,843 pesos & 35,682 silver ounces.  

1743/06/16    Nearby Cape Espiritu Santo, found Cpt. George Anson's Centurion, (60)   1743/06/16 Taken by Centurion

1743/07        Towed by Centurion, both arrived to Canton.  

1743/07        Sold the hull by the british to portuguesse for 6,000 pesos.

I am trying to find the plan for San Fernando, but no luck yet. She does look similar.

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I am trying to find the plan for San Fernando, but no luck yet. She does look similar.

I had the three plans from the Naval Museum in Madrid for the 1717 San Fernando. I'll see if I can dig them out, as they have to be somewhere but I moved twice since... I've tried to find the scanned files, but I don't have them anymore, it seems.

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I had the three plans from the Naval Museum in Madrid for the 1717 San Fernando. I'll see if I can dig them out, as they have to be somewhere but I moved twice since... I've tried to find the scanned files, but I don't have them anymore, it seems.

Would be great, thanks.

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Yes they should be, though at this time, the galleons were superceded by purpose built warships and purpose built east indiaman ships, they were still around

 

Between the years 1576 when the Espiritu Santo was lost and 1798 when the San Cristobal (2) was lost there were twenty Manila galleons [1] wrecked within the Philippine archipelago

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_galleon

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Yes they really should be in the game because they were the predessesors of all more modern warships as the frigates and ships of the line. When they were state of the art they were not slow at all. They were well armed and highly maneuverable warship which were pushed into the trading roll when more modern ships were developed.

 

An open world game like Naval Action would be totally boring without trading and we dont have proper trading ships yet. I cant imagine to transport cargo in a Victory or Constitution.

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The term galeón was dropped by Royal Order in 1732 in favour of Navío de linea, so it took quite some years for the denomination to disappear.

Also, it was very widely applied to ANY ship dedicated to maintain communications with America and to keep naval superiority, so it's easy to find ships called galeón in multitude of late -for naval evolution- writings.

 

Here's a list of Spanish SoLs. It's in Spanish, but the data should be easy to guess :)

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Nav%C3%ADos_de_l%C3%ADnea_de_la_Armada_Espa%C3%B1ola

Edited by Iñigo Montoya

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I'm going to drive tomorrow to the place where I stored some boxes. Wish me luck in finding those plans! It'll take me a while to dive in there and find something worthy :)

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you know the spanish keep using the term Galleons for their Warships untill switching later to ship of the line

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Yep, San Fernando is just a 4th rate Ship of the Line. Or perhaps 3rd rate, it's on the borderline between types. 

 

Pretty typical of SoLs from that period, just the Spanish called it a galleon.

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