3rd Reich Flag

[Bennygames]

Hello,

as a german, it is absolutly unacceptable that the Flag of the 3rd Reich is the Flag of the Bundesrepublik Deutschland in the game. Either make it the Reichskriegsflagge (1935-1945, wich was the Ensign of the Kriegsmarine), the actual Reichs- und Nationalflagge (if you have to, with a Balkenkreuz instead of the Swastika, wich is something many many games did before to avoid being banned in germany, although that isn't neccesary anymore as games are now considered art.), or the Flag of the 3rd Reich from 1933-1935, wich would be the Black-White-Red Flag. The Black-Red-Gold was the Flag of the Weimarer Republik and is the Flag of Bundesrepublik Deutschland (and, with a Hammer, Circle and wreath of Corn, the Flag of the German Democratic Republic). Using the Black-Red-Gold Flag in this manner may even get the game banned in Germany, and that rather sooner than later.

 

[Suribachi]

This is interesting to me.

Early in the 1.10 feedback thread, I think somewhere around Update 2 to Update 4, there was a lot of discussion around what flags should and should not be in the game.  The Flag of Nazi Germany (I do not know if it has an actual name like the original USA flag does with "Bessie Ross") was in the game very briefly before it was replaced.  The player base is pretty divided on it, but personally my view was to have a historical flags toggle in the settings.

As a German, maybe you can answer this better than a Google Search can, is using the Black-Red-Gold flag, which is the current flag I think, in a game have negative connotations?  Or is it because the flag is being used during that specific time period?

EDIT:  Also, would it be better to use the old Black-White-Red flag instead?

Edited January 4, 2023 by Suribachi

[Admiral Donuts]

I like the idea of toggled historical flags. It solves the problem in my opinion.

Some players may be traumatized by seeing it waving over a 276 surface ship Kriegsmarine, but hey... it doesn't bother me in the slightest. In fact I prefer it. I don't normally zoom in on enemy ships, but watching a 21 inch salute raining down on that deck flag sounds like it would keep me warm in January.

 

[Bennygames]

9 hours ago, Suribachi said:

This is interesting to me.

Early in the 1.10 feedback thread, I think somewhere around Update 2 to Update 4, there was a lot of discussion around what flags should and should not be in the game.  The Flag of Nazi Germany (I do not know if it has an actual name like the original USA flag does with "Bessie Ross") was in the game very briefly before it was replaced.  The player base is pretty divided on it, but personally my view was to have a historical flags toggle in the settings.

As a German, maybe you can answer this better than a Google Search can, is using the Black-Red-Gold flag, which is the current flag I think, in a game have negative connotations?  Or is it because the flag is being used during that specific time period?

EDIT:  Also, would it be better to use the old Black-White-Red flag instead?

Using the Black-Red-Gold in a game is not an issue, as long as it is used for either the federal republic of germany or the weimar republic, both of wich use this flag (or used, in case of the weimar republic...). And i don't think that the Black-Red-Gold would trigger anyone, if used for those states. Sure, the weimar republic had its problems, but those were mainly internal politics. The issue is that it is used as the flag of the 3rd Reich, wich never used it. My biggest issue is that we as germany have come a long long way since the 3rd reich, and using our flag as the flag of the 3rd reich is just wrong.

I mean, a US-citizen would probably also be outraged if the confederate flag was used to represent the US in 1940.

Yes, using the Black-White-Red flag would be much better, because that was the flag of the 3rd Reich from 1933 to 1935, after wich they switched to the Reichsflagge.

The reason why i think this may get the game banned in germany is §90 StGB, wich states that denigration of the state and its symbols (including the flag), is punishable with prison. And using the current flag as the flag of the 3rd Reich may be count as denigration. But i am not a lawyer, so not quite sure on this.

Edit: Just saw that they changed the Flag to the Black-White-Red with an Iron cross, so it's fine now!

Edited January 4, 2023 by Bennygames

[Suribachi]

2 hours ago, Bennygames said:

Using the Black-Red-Gold in a game is not an issue, as long as it is used for either the federal republic of germany or the weimar republic, both of wich use this flag (or used, in case of the weimar republic...). And i don't think that the Black-Red-Gold would trigger anyone, if used for those states. Sure, the weimar republic had its problems, but those were mainly internal politics. The issue is that it is used as the flag of the 3rd Reich, wich never used it. My biggest issue is that we as germany have come a long long way since the 3rd reich, and using our flag as the flag of the 3rd reich is just wrong.

I mean, a US-citizen would probably also be outraged if the confederate flag was used to represent the US in 1940.

Yes, using the Black-White-Red flag would be much better, because that was the flag of the 3rd Reich from 1933 to 1935, after wich they switched to the Reichsflagge.

The reason why i think this may get the game banned in germany is §90 StGB, wich states that denigration of the state and its symbols (including the flag), is punishable with prison. And using the current flag as the flag of the 3rd Reich may be count as denigration. But i am not a lawyer, so not quite sure on this.

Edit: Just saw that they changed the Flag to the Black-White-Red with an Iron cross, so it's fine now!

Thank you for your response.  I learned a lot from this.  I have just always been fascinated with the origins and evolutions of flags so I was curious. 

As a US citizen, I think I can speak to your confederate flag point.  I will not go too deep as I want to keep it civil and about the game.  But the American Civil war was fought over a single idea, "Who is ultimately in charge, the federal government or the individual states?"  Meaning do the states' laws carry more weight, or do the federal government's?  We all know how history played out there.  While slavery did have a part, for the Confederacy, it was a question of economics, not morals since they were going to lose the only way of life they knew up to that point.  As for me personally, I am not bothered by it.  It is complicated, but I see that Americans fought and died for their beliefs under the banners of both the Confederacy and the Union.  As such, both should be respected.

[Wowzery]

4 hours ago, Bennygames said:

I mean, a US-citizen would probably also be outraged if the confederate flag was used to represent the US in 1940.

The problem with this analogy is the Confederate flag represents a different country. It was never intended to represent the USA.  Anyone who does us it that way doesn't know history.

Now, could you have a hypothetical Confederate States of America, and use that flag, yes.  (RtW2 has this country in it, I've even played as it).  Would be an interesting what if to play.

[anonusername]

On 1/4/2023 at 9:33 AM, Wowzery said:

The problem with this analogy is the Confederate flag represents a different country. It was never intended to represent the USA.  Anyone who does us it that way doesn't know history.

Now, could you have a hypothetical Confederate States of America, and use that flag, yes.  (RtW2 has this country in it, I've even played as it).  Would be an interesting what if to play.

You could hypothetically have an alternate history US where the South not only won, but conquered the North. Would be similar to alternate history flags relating the White Army winning the Russian Civil War vs. the Red Army, or maybe (if done via peaceful compromise) the IRL shift from Austria to Austria-Hungary.

Of course, all of this ignores that the "Confederate Flag" was a battle flag and a different flag was used to represent the nation.

[Suribachi]

13 hours ago, anonusername said:

Of course, all of this ignores that the "Confederate Flag" was a battle flag and a different flag was used to represent the nation.

Yup.  For those that do not know, the Confederate Battle flag, also known as the Dixie Flag or Southern Cross, was used because their national flag the "Stars and Bars" looked too similar to the Union's "Stars and Stripes" on the battlefield causing confusion.

[smsvu]

On 1/4/2023 at 10:40 AM, Bennygames said:

Edit: Just saw that they changed the Flag to the Black-White-Red with an Iron cross, so it's fine now!

But something went wrong, I just had an enemy with both.

Likely they started building during the war but got bogged down in bureaucracy or had firesafety issues and till they were ready to put the flag up on the tower masts it was already property of the federal republics navy ;)