First (main) gun balancing is a problem

[Rucki]

And it is like that for a long time, since release on Steam.

What I mean exactly is that taking the biggest gun available to you and now since the latest update, adjusting the barrel to the longest and biggest is just simply the best option for every country. I tried quite a lot of campaigns with the opposite, so smaller and faster firing guns and the end result is always a catastrophe.

Maybe its even historically speaking right, but from a game perspective its not so well. If the game gives me the option between 220mm and 400 mm guns and 400mm is just simply the very best, because it has the most accuracy and the most penetration, why should I ever take smaller guns ?

As far as I know the germans used smaller and faster firing canons quite well in WW1.

Then again, I absolutely have no clue how to balance the system, I see the difficulties there. If it really was in history like that, like having the biggest gun assures you a win, then maybe economically difficulties should play a role in the campaign ?

I think thats something to discuss for the whole community, where do we want go with the main gun balancing ? History is one thing, and gameplay another.

[Sandermatt]

One thing to keep in mind is that smaller calibers are upgraded earlier to the next mark, so there are often situations where a higher tech smaller gun is better. Maybe refits should not be able to change gun calibers or armor, this way we would see more variety.

[Candle_86]

The germans did use 11in guns, and regretted it during Jutland, they hit more often than the Brittish but failed to do damage to the Battleships because they could resist their shells, germany realized faster firing is pointless if you can't actually damage them.

[Sandermatt]

I actually have say that with the current update I often go for smaller guns. The problem with the bigger guns is that it takes forever to get them properly aimed and when it happens the aiming is quickly lost again. If the ships line up and exchange fire for a long time, they will of course absolutely own them, but at least in terms of starting tech smaller guns seem more efficient and they can easily pen most ships the AI brings.

 

About Jutland, given how catastrophic this went for the british, I am surprised the germans were the ones learning from it.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Sandermatt

[Carl_Bar]

15 hours ago, Candle_86 said:

The germans did use 11in guns, and regretted it during Jutland, they hit more often than the Brittish but failed to do damage to the Battleships because they could resist their shells, germany realized faster firing is pointless if you can't actually damage them.

 

True but there a difference between unable to penetrate the enemy and unable to hit the enemy. 

 

I've said before i'm not sure from a game-play perspective if it really makes sense to go with a realistic fire control derived accuracy but the more i play with the gun derived accuracy the more sure i get that it's not the right answer either. It makes gun calibre pretty much the only desirable attribute other than tech level.

[Plazma]

I usually use 2" (2.9"the longest), 9", 12". Plus that what I can fit on the ship. 

2" are the best option to 3,5 - 4,0 km and works on distance up to 6 km. Pretty good for green crew, light, low cost fit anywhere. 

The fight or rather the good accuracy in 1890-1900 is 5000-10000 km and in here 4" have little advantage on 2", because around 5 - 6km are little better (accuracy, pene) and have bigger range, so they are always in use up to 9.2 km. An here 5", 6",  7" and 8" make sense. But... the size of 5" and vulnerability to exploding is big downside of this kind of guns, casemate are exceptions, but... putting heavy gun in no central of mass have downside too. Plus you want fight on what distance? 10km 15km or 5km? These questions are important too. 7" and 8" are very weak in short distance less than 5km, (slow rotation, slow aiming, slow rate of fire). 9" - 12" similar behavior, but 12" are pretty good gun. 

What more  2" 4" 9" gun are get next generation Mark II Mark III pretty fast. Because of that sometimes is better to take 9" than 11" (12" are often superior, but rate of fire is... very bad, only veteran crew, light ammo) and 2" than any other gun up to 8"? Maybe 6" and in rarely situations/build 4" are good too. 

 

Is hard to take down BB with 2" guns, but possible and everything smaller than BB is dead. 

 

But yes, usually bigger = better, but on 1890-1900 smaller guns was useful too, later the caliber matter up to 16". 

 

Try make some ships of cost on your BB but with many 2.9" (long) as possible for the test  

[Sandermatt]

The secondary 2.9'' guns at the start of the game (not ceasmate, secondary) are absolutely awesome, only slightly more than a ton in weight that is an amazing weight/benefit ratio.