Torpedoes need work

[Ouchtime]

I think torpedoes need a realism upgrade.

• Making a successful torpedo attack need just as much data as a gun attack. The game have accuracy for guns but not for torpedoes. We need the ships to build a torpedo solution before they launch and not magically have a 100% correct solution at all times.
• Torpedoes are NOT 100% accurate, even today.
  Torpedoes never go exactly where you tell them to go. Factors like guidance system inaccuracy, ocean currents, waves, etc always make torpedoes deviate from the aimpoint.
  We need the torpedoes to deviate from the set course. No more synchronized salvos at 20km.
• Torpedoes are NOT viable in heavy seas.
  Rough waves will cause torpedoes to get confused how deep they are and cause them to deviate from the set course.
  There is a good chance that the torpedo will run under the target if the waves are to high. 
  Torpedoes should be disabled in rough seas.
• Torpedo detonators were quite unreliable in the early years.
  A torpedo needed to strike the target reasonably perpendicular to the target. When the impact angle approach a shallow angle the torpedo is more likely to glance off rather than detonate.
  We need a ricochet chance for torpedoes just like we have for shells.
• Torpedoes can't be launched all at once from a single launcher. They are launched in a ripple salvo. If you try to launch at the same time the torpedoes crash into each other even before they hit the water.
  We need 2+ launchers to ripple fire.

[Vanhal]

Also please tell AI that crusiers except one weird exception did not had 40+ torpedo launchers.

[Somhairle]

15 hours ago, Vanhal said:

Also please tell AI that crusiers except one weird exception did not had 40+ torpedo launchers.

And your point would be? This isn't "Ultimate Build What They Built in Real Life".

[gsg957]

17 hours ago, Vanhal said:

Also please tell AI that crusiers except one weird exception did not had 40+ torpedo launchers.

You are referring to the refits to the IJN Kitakami and IJN Oi of the Abukuma class that got five quad 610 type 93 oxygen torpedo launchers per side. I actually recreate them in the game and the were ridiculous especially in cases when the enemy fleet bunch up they got multiple kills with a simple salvo.

[gsg957]

On 4/21/2022 at 2:41 AM, Ouchtime said:

I think torpedoes need a realism upgrade.

• Making a successful torpedo attack need just as much data as a gun attack. The game have accuracy for guns but not for torpedoes. We need the ships to build a torpedo solution before they launch and not magically have a 100% correct solution at all times.
• Torpedoes are NOT 100% accurate, even today.
  Torpedoes never go exactly where you tell them to go. Factors like guidance system inaccuracy, ocean currents, waves, etc always make torpedoes deviate from the aimpoint.
  We need the torpedoes to deviate from the set course. No more synchronized salvos at 20km.
• Torpedoes are NOT viable in heavy seas.
  Rough waves will cause torpedoes to get confused how deep they are and cause them to deviate from the set course.
  There is a good chance that the torpedo will run under the target if the waves are to high. 
  Torpedoes should be disabled in rough seas.
• Torpedo detonators were quite unreliable in the early years.
  A torpedo needed to strike the target reasonably perpendicular to the target. When the impact angle approach a shallow angle the torpedo is more likely to glance off rather than detonate.
  We need a ricochet chance for torpedoes just like we have for shells.
• Torpedoes can't be launched all at once from a single launcher. They are launched in a ripple salvo. If you try to launch at the same time the torpedoes crash into each other even before they hit the water.
  We need 2+ launchers to ripple fire.

Although I think adding those things may be on the far future or in mods I do would like to see the ripple fire because I honestly disliked the fact that they got fired all at once especially when my destroyers go at full power and they just send a salvo it feels almost depressing.

[Hangar18]

On 4/21/2022 at 2:41 AM, Ouchtime said:

Torpedoes are NOT 100% accurate, even today.

Torpedoes now have their own sonar and can actively ping enemy ships on their own. This is assuming they are left on their own because they are guided by a wire. Like we can literally drop them from helicopters.

They don't have a 100% chance to hit in the same way an AMRAAM fired at M2/50k' towards a target 15nm away doesn't have a 100% hit rate. It's not certain, but it's very likely.

[Vanhal]

8 hours ago, Somhairle said:

And your point would be? This isn't "Ultimate Build What They Built in Real Life".

Good that you asked. It's about development philosophy and mechanical consistence. Since in the progress of development we are seemingly getting more restraints in how do we want to build our ships, except somehow torps are still ridiculously OP, unrealistic, and not subject to as many restraining mechanics compared to guns, if by any chance this is WAD and devs are purposefully wanting AI to run around with 40+ deathrays because it can't compete normally, i would want to introduce an optional toggle:

- No torps mode. As in no torps at all. Ever, for any side.

If that is not WAD, then please devs do something about it and bring the torps in line with guns @Nick Thomadis please also look at OP, he has great points.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Vanhal

[UnleashtheKraken]

Speaking of developing solutions, torps not going where you point them, and so on...I want my damn ships to not fire torps at a turning target as though he's going to go straight on from where he's at, even though he's OBVIOUSLY in a turn.  The shot is a miss before it even leaves the launcher but this braindead AI... Because of this I always toggle launchers, they're always off by default, except submerged tubes on early cruiser and BB/dreads because why not.  The optimal shot is closing, angled on, and so close that the complete fantasy turns the AI ships make when detecting the torps can't save them.  It's suicide jousting with explosive fish, it's massively dumb, and the AI has to have a chance to not automatically respond to detected torps at all times.  As a single player, with a fleet of even 8+, it is very hard to babysit torp attacks, capital and cruiser squadron movement, AND respond to the absolute swarm of torps the enemy launches.  It gets insane in larger battles, I've had a campaign battle of 9 of mine vs. 17 enemy and I almost had aneurysms at some of the AI behavior of my own ships.  I had to turn off avoid ships, avoid torps, all torps set off until I wanted them to attack, all of the DDs separated into individual ships.

The AI is utterly unreliable.  Also, tangentially, when I play the Brits in campaign, I absolutely LOATHE getting French allies in a mixed fleet, because the AI is so utterly horrible at ship design.  They're always severely underweight, WTF weapon placement, choice of caliber, the armor was chosen by throwing at a dartboard, they're always slower than what I build so these abominations slow me down...

Sorry.  I got on a rant there.  I really LIKE what this game can be capable of but AI autodesign makes baby jesus throw all the toys out of his pram.