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Recent changes to sea trials

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I would suggest to have to grind the way to the ship IF it sinks. But I would also suggest to be able to choose with what ship (only lower, ofc) someone wants to grind. Maybe make the grind longer the further "away" the grinding ship is from the ship that is to be unlocked.
And I want to suggest making it possible to strike colours. That will prevent having to grind, and it will make people think about their actual chances of winning instead of just fighting until the last man. However I would like to see some kind of punishment if a ship strikes colours, like for example locking it for the next 5 games.

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Sea trials progression forces alpha testers to play a certain number of battles in each ship. On average 15-20 battles.

Open world is a completely different story it will be based on military or court rank only. No levels

Not to pick at small details but aren't military ranks just hidden levels?

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Off topic discussions don't help us work and find useful information hiding it behind noise

 

There is "Tavern" for off topic and relaxed moderation. Moderators will clean the topic from things not related to the upcoming changes discussions. 

You can help us by cleaning your messages yourself. 

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Off topic discussions don't help us work and find useful information hiding it behind noise

 

There is "Tavern" for off topic and relaxed moderation. Moderators will clean the topic from things not related to the upcoming changes discussions. 

You can help us by cleaning your messages yourself. 

 

I thought we were talking in relation to the comment about "toxic players and their removal" in the OP?

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Perhaps an option for consideration regarding ship loss (more so in PvP Arena than open world is ) :

 

Keep the existing ship 'licensing' progression where you need to achieve X damage (* see note 1) to be able to sail ship Y.

 

But also have a 'crew prestige' mechanic (or it could be insurance or some other thing), where in essence if you loose 3 games your crew of ship C don't like you so you are demoted back to ship B. Until you achieve 3 wins. Now this is a net 3 wins (and indeed 3 losses) so WLWLWL is a net 0 and WWLLWLW is a net + 1 win.

 

That way if in your chosen ship you win lots...it takes LOTS to get you demoted.

 

 

* Note 1 : Obviously at the moment this is simplistic and does not take winning into account, this over time can be tinkered with.

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So Far, I'm really Excited about this Game, and cannot wait for open world. 

 

Really the only issue I have found is that my PTT Button for teamspeak (F16, Yes F16) seems to have additional function in Naval Action, It Drops my Frame Rate to 1 Frame every 3 Seconds, and sets my in-game FPS Monitor to NaN  By Pressing the Button Again, it toggles back to normal Mode. I'm assuming its activating some form of debuging in the background that is not visible to Me. but who knows. 

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I think several people bring up good points.  This system needs to be carefully implemented and possible different breaking points need to be found and addressed before they occur.

 

You would need to make it so that if we have a ship unlocked and lose it, that it doesn't lock out ships above it.

 

There should also be a more developed reward system.  Say if you CAPTURE a ship, that gives you an extra ship of that type.  Say I am in a Coni and I capture a Surprise. I now have 2 Surprises that I can lose before the Surprise is locked out.  With each ship you have unlocked you would start with 1 of those ships and for each one captured, add one to the pool, each one sunk or captured, the pool is decreased.  This gives us a very good reason to not SINK ships but capture them.  This can help test the boarding system, which does need to be reworked a bit.  The victory of the boarding should get back a certain % of crew.  Some have been knocked out, captured, moral has broken, or were slightly wounded and are now returning to the ship because their side has won and they have recovered, etc.

 

Team balancer needs to be reworked.  If a non even amount of ship of the lines join PVP, it really throws things off.  This is going to tick people off if a loss mechanic is put in place. 

 

p.s.  Please add small ships back to PVP.  I have all the ships unlocked, but the last few weeks I have been taking the Lynx into pvp.  Please at the very least add back in the Privateer and Yacht.  It has become a "tradition" of The Decatur Armada (who have several players who have unlocked all ships) to have a "Yacht Club" in pvp almost every night.  We are very coordinated and pose a threat to ships way outside our rating if we play the game right.  It is very fun and makes it so that we experienced players play the small ships when we might not have.

 

I have to agree with Prater on this.

I fear that loss of ships if not well thought thru will end up been people with 51%+ W/L rate will end up with all the ships and people below 50% will en up with ships smaller than the Snow.

You have to be careful not to lose the interest from all the people that might get trown out from there "good" ships.

 

I realy like the idea, and I do understand that this is somthing that needs to be tested, but i feel that this might be bether to test when the open world test starts. How See Trials work now with resticted battle arenas and uneaven teams almost every game, will this resoult in alot of complaints from people that might have been "non toxic" befour this test.

 

In a open world test you could have implimented that you saved your ship if you manage to get x km away from your enemy. Lets say 5 Trincs vs. 1 bell, 1 victory and 2 frigs would have to sink/capture the 2 frigs and then outrun the SOL's to "win" the fight. This will impliment some real tactics from the age of sails and will give the team that in a battle arena are limited by there size/numbers not nessesaily will lose the ship/battle.

 

 

I think its ok not to let small ships in to PVP atm, since everybody are grinding the new ships. I still think the Snow should get into PVP, and I hope you will let all ships in again when the rush of ship grinding is over. 

But for now its ok not to have a Victory vs. 10x Navy Brigs.

 

I did not play this game for almost 10 days befour the patch with the new ships, so i need to get used to the ships I had befour the patch again befour I can say anything about the handling that got implimented befour the new ships. 

The only thing I can say now is that crew loss is realy easy to see on the ships handeling right now. 

 

 

New ships:

 

The privateer should have stern guns, just to give it a little more edge from the lynx.

Navy Brig, Insane turn rate at hi and low speed, might need some more armor (maby copper plating)

Cerebus, Feels a little slow. Had big problems keeping up with a Bellona. It also feels a little light on damage, but i havent tried it directly against a Snow ore Suprise yet so that might be ok.

The acceleration and turn rate is good, but I stil feel that its to slow to be a good support ship. 

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I have to agree with Prater on this.

I fear that loss of ships if not well thought thru will end up been people with 51%+ W/L rate will end up with all the ships and people below 50% will en up with ships smaller than the Snow.

You have to be careful not to lose the interest from all the people that might get trown out from there "good" ships.

 

I realy like the idea, and I do understand that this is somthing that needs to be tested, but i feel that this might be bether to test when the open world test starts. How See Trials work now with resticted battle arenas and uneaven teams almost every game, will this resoult in alot of complaints from people that might have been "non toxic" befour this test.

 

In a open world test you could have implimented that you saved your ship if you manage to get x km away from your enemy. Lets say 5 Trincs vs. 1 bell, 1 victory and 2 frigs would have to sink/capture the 2 frigs and then outrun the SOL's to "win" the fight. This will impliment some real tactics from the age of sails and will give the team that in a battle arena are limited by there size/numbers not nessesaily will lose the ship/battle.

 

 

I think its ok not to let small ships in to PVP atm, since everybody are grinding the new ships. I still think the Snow should get into PVP, and I hope you will let all ships in again when the rush of ship grinding is over. 

But for now its ok not to have a Victory vs. 10x Navy Brigs.

 

I did not play this game for almost 10 days befour the patch with the new ships, so i need to get used to the ships I had befour the patch again befour I can say anything about the handling that got implimented befour the new ships. 

The only thing I can say now is that crew loss is realy easy to see on the ships handeling right now. 

 

 

New ships:

 

The privateer should have stern guns, just to give it a little more edge from the lynx.

Navy Brig, Insane turn rate at hi and low speed, might need some more armor (maby copper plating)

Cerebus, Feels a little slow. Had big problems keeping up with a Bellona. It also feels a little light on damage, but i havent tried it directly against a Snow ore Suprise yet so that might be ok.

The acceleration and turn rate is good, but I stil feel that its to slow to be a good support ship. 

 

Yes, I have raised similar concerns here:

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/3863-ship-loss-mechanic/

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Sir. Cunningham.

Yes, I did see the topic. Just wanted to give some feedback here as well since the admins asked for it. I'll read tru your post now.

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Ship Loss Mechanic

 

Honestly I think ship loss is madness at this stage but that is purely for selfish reasons;  I will be one of the people always in a cutter or something simply because I can't devote that much time to games.  I've been playing about six weeks and managed to make it to the Surprise but the numbers involved made the Victory and the like pretty much unattainable for me.

 

I like this idea below -

 

....Keep the existing ship 'licensing' progression where you need to achieve X damage (* see note 1) to be able to sail ship Y.

 

But also have a 'crew prestige' mechanic (or it could be insurance or some other thing), where in essence if you loose 3 games your crew of ship C don't like you so you are demoted back to ship B. Until you achieve 3 wins. Now this is a net 3 wins (and indeed 3 losses) so WLWLWL is a net 0 and WWLLWLW is a net + 1 win.....

 

It's not a massive issue for me as I quite like the smaller ships anyway but -

 

Why remove small ships from PVP?

 

The first time I ventured from PVE into PVP I was in a brig and it was fantastic to see and sail alongside the big ships.  A cutter darting around a Victory gives such a sense of scale to the big ships.  The spectacle of it is amazing.

 

Implementing ship loss AND only big ships in PVP will mean people like me may never actually see the big ships in action.

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Before I start, I trust the devs that whatever they do, it's for a good reason and to make a better game in the end.  We are in a testing phase and these types of major changes happen.   

 

My opinion :

For the restricted PVP.  No big deal, but I do think having a good mix of ships makes for a more interesting battle.  Hopefully this is just temporary.

 

For the ship loss, I also need to echo what a few have said.  This needs to be implemented carefully.  I understand that this is a test for the purpose of the final game, but the current sea trials are essentially a TDM.  The majority of players sink in every game.  Often you sink and its not even your own fault.  Sometimes you are just the first in line and will die.  Sometimes you are the one being focused and die.  My point being sinking can many times be out of your control and be just a matter of luck.  Obviously being a better player may minimize this "luck" factor, but it's still there.

 

I think it will also cause people to avoid close combat, kite and snipe entire games.

 

That said, I'm open to test and maybe I will be surprised by the outcome.

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What? Does it really mean that i will not be able to buy this game this week? Dont do it! I need this game its my "dream come true"!

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We will also stop selling the pre-orders for the game temporarily to give us and community volunteers time to mold the community to the form that we desire, getting rid of some of the toxic players in the process. This will also hopefully show that we value friendly and respectful community more than cash. 

By getting rid of 'toxic' players do you intend to refund their money? as far as i am aware there was no ToS nor are there any accepted EULA when you start the game.. Companies like paypal have an avenue for the recovering of money FYI. 

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By getting rid of 'toxic' players do you intend to refund their money? as far as i am aware there was no ToS nor are there any accepted EULA when you start the game.. Companies like paypal have an avenue for the recovering of money FYI. 

IIRC, what you buy is a pre-ordering of the game + invitation to test the alpha (Sea Trials) as a bonus... If they ban people from the Sea Trials but afterwards they give them the final product of the game in the future when it is launched... they would get the product they paid for, and there wouldn't be any need for refund.

But I might be wrong, can anyone confirm this? (mod, admin, dev, etc)

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Looking forward to the new ship loss mech and assume that the points required to regain sunk ships will be adjusted because (unless I've misunderstood)

 

1. At the moment, the approximate rate ship loss in a game is 75% (win or lose you often lose your ship).

2. And, under the new system, you lose a ship you go back to the next lower ship in the tier to gain points to regain the ship - this may perhaps take 10 games to do.

 
So only a player with a perfect win rate will keep a ship - for the rest of us (all of us) it'll be a race to the bottom of the tier and within a few games we'll all be sailing yachts 

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I dont really see the point of restricting smaller ships from pvp. The sooner a player can engage in pvp the better.

 

If balance is the problem, then make separate battles for light (up til cerberus for example) and heavy ships. There is already a light pvp option. Just make it the only option for lighter ships.

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By getting rid of 'toxic' players do you intend to refund their money? as far as i am aware there was no ToS nor are there any accepted EULA when you start the game.. Companies like paypal have an avenue for the recovering of money FYI. 

 

This question has come several times in this discussion - lets clear it up. :)

Getting rid of "toxic" players is good for the community and the game. There are multiple ways to do it without limiting access to the alpha "Sea Trials" and a full game in the future. In 90% of cases limiting access to chat and forums will take care of the problem. We are working (as promised) on the tools to report messages and adding ignore function to the chat. 

 

Also it is important to separate a toxic player from a cheater. Under Steam EULA that everyone signed a player is not allowed to cheat under any circumstances and Valve can terminate steam subscriber agreement if this happens. 

 

Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers. You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscriptions(s) and/or Account, but it may choose to do so.

 

Toxic behavior definition is a little bit vague but everyone who plays Naval Action through Steam has agreed to this in the online conduct rules (which you signed when activated the key).

User will NOT: 

  • Defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten or otherwise violate the legal rights (such as rights of privacy and publicity) of others.
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Grinding damage on smaller ships only in PvE light is absolute boredom (im still on privateer). When you cant troll bigger ships with your agility and speed its just..tank analogy again: its like whats more fun, fighting other light tanks or surprise btseks Pz4's, Jgdpz4's and Panthers in T-50/M22?

 

I'll just wait for ship loss test, then the prospect of loosing ma ship should spice things up a bit and maybe make combat a lil less derpy.

 

edit: huge fail, I meant PvP light*

Edited by nebsif

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So, don't do PvE and don't "grind damage."  The Privateer is an excellent ship in its own right.  No need to rush through it.  

 

Get in PvP Light.  There's a fair bit of difference between a Lynx and a Snow (not unlike the difference between a frigate and SOL), and you'll have plenty of opportunities to learn the strengths and weaknesses of different ships against different opponents.  This ain't tanks (thank goodness!).  But fighting any vehicle of similar size and ability is where real skill begins to be obvious.  The only way to gain that skill is in practice against better opponents.  

Edited by Tom Pullings

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Would Decatur Armada be willing to actively report exploiters?

Late seeing this, but absolutely, we already lay down a set of behaviors that we expect of our members and any kind of cheating or 'farming' points gets your non-member status back very quickly and we don't want to see that type of player in the population of the NA community period.

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if you sink or get boarded,  you will lose this ship and will have to reacquire it again.

 

I assume losing by going out of bounds lets you keep your vessel...? Because if there's no way to escape and every ship on the losing side of every confrontation is lost every time... it's really a massive disincentive. On the other hand, letting players disengage from losing battles to save their ship opens up way more dynamics to the pvp testing, it's no longer an all-or-nothing cage match. That's why small vessels have been ignored or unused -- because when your only option is to straight up face your opponent you ideally want the biggest ship/ships possible.

 

But add the possibility of flight from combat, and suddenly you need fast vessels to chase down fleeing ones and you will need a faster vessel to escape if your side has undoubtedly lost an engagement.

 

Just be ready for the ragequits. By god... the ragequits...

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Here is my suggestion for the sea trials ship loss factor.

It's a concept that most games represent with currency, credits, points, ect.

Basically, the "currency" in sea trials is going to be damage. The current unlocking phase should be kept as it is currently, which is otherwise similar to "buying" the ship. The next part is for repairs, which have their own cost to repair.

For example, it takes 150000 damage to "buy" the Bellona. After that point, the cost to replace a lost Bellona is a little bit under the average of how much damage people achieve on her, say 8000 damage. Ultimately, in battle, the player needs to try to earn a profit of 8000 damage with the Bellona so that he or she can refit her to the next battle. If he or she can not earn 8000 damage and keeps on losing the ship, then he or she will not be able to afford sailing the Bellona and will have to play a lighter ship.

In my own opinion, however, I am not too crazy about this ship loss concept as it can encourage even worse bad behavior as now griefing would have longer term consequences.

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Mr. Wesley has a point. If fleeing combat is the only thing that gains value in this scenario then griefing will become far more frequent an occurrence with all the ambiguity of ramming.

 

Admin: "We understand that many players are only having fun in their favorite vessel and do not want to sail new, untuned and sometimes unpleasant ships. Information on such ships is crucial and important to us. We want to know why you don't like them and how these ships could/should be improved."

 

Well right now the only objective going into battle is to destroy the enemy. And while you can argue the maneuverability of smaller ships gives them an advantage in close quarters combat (and player skill and cooperation still counts for more in practice); truth is the side with the most guns technically has the combat advantage. Pushing the use of a sloop or brig in this scenario is like sponsoring a motorcycle for an arena all-vehicles demolition derby. Someone's going to bring a mac truck in and wreck your face. Now put that derby in backstreets, or make it a race and suddenly the bike is a much better idea.

 

It doesn't have to be Team Fortress on water, but if you want every ship to be valuable it isn't enough to give each ship unique merits -- every one also needs unique applications in your world that specifically take advantage of those merits... Make powerful gun emplacements more common that must be raced to and taken quickly, add defensive and offensive battle roles for sides, add shoals, passes and bays only small ships can traverse, and Sargassum Seaweed drifts large ships can power through but slow down smaller vessels. Implement land masses with collision that save swift wise captains or trap slower short-sighted sailors.

 

Glad to see the game seems to now be progressing in that direction or so I gather from the latest news :D OW prototype FTW!

Edited by Devante del Nero
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alternatively make a new batltle mode that is points based where capture of a zone or flag adds a certain amount of points to your teams total per  minute that you own it. sinking ships also adds points. first team to a specified total wins the match. 

 

(just a temporary measure to allow better matches with variable objectives playing to differnt ships strengths)

Edited by chappy

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Few fleet actions in real life ended without significant loss on both sides.  The Victory was nearly a complete wreck after Trafalgar.  I think it will be very frustrating for many players to lose ships.  Especially those that cannot invest a ton of time into playing to redeem what they lost.  I personally have a tendancy to sail in directly and get my team to form line astern behind me, almost every time I have done this and split the enemies line while they tried to sail along and snipe us it has resulted in victory for my time, but being the lead ship like Victory at trafalgar I am taking the most initial damage whilst shielding the rest of my squadron from fire, I usually am able to inflict significant damage before I sink but I usually sink every game.  The ability to use traditional fleet tactics and have them work amazingly well in this game is extremely gratifying to me, it would be a shame if half of us kept losing our ships because we step up to lead the line to victory.  I am fond of tactics that bring about a decisive victory, and sailing merrily along taking mile long pot shots at the enemy does little if anything, and usually if nobody takes the lead the squadron ends up splitting up into small groups and engaging individually which if the enemy is organized usually ends in your team getting hammered.  Always engage the enemy more closely gentlemen.

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